Author Topic: .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM in 16" barrel? (Read 1286 times)

RupertBear · « **on:** March 04, 2005, 08:17:44 PM »

Saw these calibers listed on a site, and although they both sound interesting, wouldn't there be a problem actually using them in a 16" barrel (even with muzzle break)?

I would think that because of the short barrel length you wouldn't get a decent muzzle velocity, and lots of unburned powder, to make it worth using.

If it is a viable option, I may consider buying one, as factory ammo is readily available, and this might be a better overall caliber than .308 Win.

Thanks!

KYODE · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2005, 04:41:39 AM »

my 300 win mag is cut down from the 26" heavy rifle barrel. it was cut at 16.5" and then a OTT shark gill muzzle brake added(nice!). i used it in the past deer season to take 2 deer with 180gr win factory loads. i will soon work up a hanload for it when the weather/time permits.
after that time i will be writing an article at the specialty pistols site.
i do HIGHLY recommend a muzzle brake for shootin 180gr win factory loads :shock:

a buddy got 2971 fps from 150gr rem factory loads, and 2630fps from the rem 180gr factory load.

winchester brass does seem quite a bit easier to get the belt over the extractor and is no problem to load.

all i can say is i love mine

the 300wsm may be a lil much on the encore action with it's even larger case head dia. may be hard to find someone to chamber it. OTT might :? but leave a long throat to help on pressures :?

teamnelson · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2005, 03:55:17 PM »

On which site did you see a 300WSM? I had heard, as Kyode points out, that no one was making a 300WSM because the pressure was outside the limits for an Encore frame. So which brave pioneering gunsmith has decided to give it a try?

RupertBear · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2005, 04:24:07 PM »

I found the info here... he lists the .300WSM but recommends the .300 Win Mag.

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/index.html

southern utah · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2005, 07:11:33 AM »

Both Virgin Valley and Bullberry made some a few years ago. I just had my BB 24" 300WSM rechambered to 308 win because it showed pressure sign with lighter than max loads. There was a problem with the larger bullets unless you had the throat lenghtened. Decided it wasn't worth the hassel and I have a 26" 300 Win mag anyway. I have a 16 1/4 " in 308 win that I trade Jeff at VV for and use it for deer hunting. Will have 300wsm brass and dies ( sized 20-40 rounds) for sale when I can dig them out.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2005, 07:05:40 AM »

I have a 300 win mag barrel on my rifle. With the recoil, that I get from it,I don't thnk I'd want to shoot it in pistol form!

Just how bad is it??

HWD

KYODE · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2005, 05:58:52 PM »

i DO shoot mine as a handgun :shock: let me say that with a 16.5" barrel, walnut grip, 180gr factory loads, and no brake.........it is ferocious :eek:

the OTT muzzle brake and rubber grip sure pulled it's teeth

xphunter · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2005, 09:07:45 AM »

A braked 300WM or a braked 338WM are very useable. I just would never encourage the use of the WSM cases in the Encore. They can be used safely as long as you download them.

handirifle · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2005, 10:21:06 AM »

A 300 Mag in a handgun? :eek: You guys have some issues :grin: .

That seems scary to me just thinking about it. I'm not a handgun hunter, but am curious how much one gains from a 308 Win to 300 WM (any type) in a 16" barrel gun?

KYODE · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2005, 07:09:08 PM »

oughta gain a couple hundred fps with 180gr bullets, at the expense of a good amount of powder.
got 2600+fps today outta my 300 win mag handgun. 18.5" total length including OTT muzzle brake. bout 16.5" effective length. loads were not pushing max too hard....maybe close. got a lil more work to do.

recoil?..........what recoil? that OTT muzzle brake is awesome!

noise?.....what noise? anyone not using hearing protection with ALL guns ALL the time is just asking for hearing problems.

xphunter · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2005, 03:16:21 AM »

Recoil is not bad with a good brake. I push a 180 Sierra Game King from a 15.75 inch lightweight sporter barrel @ 2775 fps. It has a Vais brake. Now the cartridge is in a XP and it is the 7.82 Patriot. It consistently shoots sub-half inch groups @ 100 yards.

Bug · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2005, 02:54:32 PM »

This sorta falls into the category of
"THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO HMMMMMMMM."
Now I'll admit to having a .30 short-mag. I picked it up simply because they were "new", and different. I could have just as easily went with the Win Mag, and never looked back. It's a rifle, not a pistol. :oops:
Consequently, I've been following the various debates about the merits of both. I find them mostly just interesting, as about all i see is people debating both sides of the same coin. I ain't gonna get my shorts in a knot, either way.
Y'all bring up the fact that the WSM is too stout for the Encore, and the Win Mag isn't. Hmmmmmm. According to Winchester, the factory 150gr gives the WM a whole 20fps advantage. The WSM case head is only .003" larger than the WM. Seems like about the same, to me.
Do I have this right, or am I missing something here?

??
I'm not trying to foo foo anyone, just trying to understand.

Reference:
WSM ammo
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=X300WSM1&cart=MzAwIFdTTQ==
Win Mag ammo
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=X30WM1&cart=MzAwIFdpbmNoZXN0ZXIgTWFn
Win Mag drawing
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd300winchestermagnum.jpg
WSM drawing
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd300winchestershortmagnum.jpg

KYODE · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2005, 04:23:13 PM »

bug........i think you are lookin at the wrong measurement. .513 compared to .555 is the diameter difference. i believe you are looking at the rim :?
if so........ .555-.513 = .042" difference.
i reckon the 300 win mag case head is already at a diameter that is the encore reasonable limit. the wsm case exceeds it further.
i think mike at OTT may chamber a wsm cartridge if you insisted, but he'd leave a long throat to help on pressures. course a feller would have to ask him to be sure.
:lol: kinnda funny.......back in the ol days people wanted to push the contender...........nowadays people want to push the encore.

probably run into flexing the action if pushing them too hard, i reckon. i'll monitor my loads and brass stretch in my 300 win mag as i work with it more. the headspace indicator i have will make taking those measurements a lil easier.

xphunter · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2005, 08:42:54 PM »

Just to add to the above comments (just for giggles of course) I believe one can also load the 300 Wm or 338 WM case in an Encore to the point of causing excessive case stretch (likely because of frame/barrel flexing).
I have done it in an Encore in 338 WM--Not one of my best days. I was staying in the guidelines of the loading manuals. I kept operating under the assumption that the Encore could handle this cartridge just like a bolt action (I was wrong at least with my set-up). If the case head is larger than the 300 WM With equal or larger capacity) and loaded to the same pressure, my understanding is you are putting more force against the frame. I don't have a problem with someone having a WSM in an Encore, as long as they are aware they can't push it like they could in a bolt rig.