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Author Topic: If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70  (Read 1818 times)

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Offline Cookiemann

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« on: March 05, 2005, 12:59:51 AM »
I will only be able to get one for now.  What's your opinion?
It will be used for deer hunting and havin' fun at the range.  It may encounter some duty on camping in the Colorado Rockies. I have never had a CLOSE ENCOUNTER OF THE BEAR KIND, but it wouldn't hurt to be prepared.  Wth the exception of the BEAR ENCOUNTER I am leaning toward the 30-30.  I also should say that I would be using factory loads, as I presently do not do any reloading.  
ALL RESPONSE WELCOME. I need reading material for tomorrow morning when everyone else is still asleep at 4am.  So bring it on!! :grin:
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Offline mag41vance

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2005, 01:23:34 AM »
As far as reading material goes. Get yourself a reloading manual. Lyman or Nosler.   :shock:

 As far as the choice. I'd start with the .30-30 as it would be the most versatile. If you reloaded, I'd lean toward the .45-70 because you can load plinker type loads and magnum loads.
  The .45-70 makes a very nice hole in a Squirrel. ( If you can find it )
The possibilities with the .45-70 are greater as well.

 If I were going to start an NEF collection, This would be the order.
 .22 LR
 12 ga Topper
 .30-30
 .357
 .45-70
 .223 or .22-250
 .22mag Ultra Varmint
 .30-06

 The $$ sum total of that list is just under a thousand bucks.
 No wonder the NEF's are so popular! 8)
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Offline Badnews Bob

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2005, 01:39:59 AM »
I have both an it's a hard choice, I think the .45-70 is more fun to shoot but cost more to do so. Ammo for the .30-30 can be had anywhere, If you don't reload it may be the way to go.

I also suggest looking into reloading and casting for both, With a Lee loader and a couple of moulds you can be rolling your own outta wheel weights for next to nothing. Fun and satisfiying and just as effective on deer as store bought. 8)
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Offline Haywire Haywood

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2005, 02:36:01 AM »
Since you don't reload, you've taken the bear encounter out of the equation, and neither cartridge is a bean field gun, I gotta vote for the 30-30.  It's really a no brainer.  I consider myself an expert at answering "no brainer" questions..  I am immensely qualified.  :-D  :-D

Ian
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Offline Woodbutcher

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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2005, 04:54:47 AM »
Dear Cookieman:
 I hope I may get into this. I've got a 45/70. So my recommend goes for the bigbore on the same basis as Haywire. I like his reasoning. Badnews Bob has the best answer cause he has both rifles. I cannot agree with Badnews Bob, cause if I had both rifles, I'd be in terrible shape trying to make any kind of sensible decision between either caliper. I hope my answer isn't confusing! :roll:
 However, how can you go wrong with either? They both have a long and proven history. I must say that your choice for the smaller one will kick you much less, so you would miss out on all that fun! I've seen, this past season, 30/30 ammo on sale for $10 a box of 20. Ain't never seen 45/70 ammo priced like that. Don't worry about which one you select, cause you'll always wonder if the other was better.
 The real selection may get done for you. I warn you! You may someday soon, totally unprepared, come upon an NEF rifle in the course of your travels, and it will all be over! See the rifle, handle the rifle, stick a fork in him, he's done! Cartridge won't matter at all! Don't laugh! This is happening to lots of us, the more knowledgable, the worse it is! It's an infectious malady, with no known cure! It's terrible! If another rifle is acquired to provide some relief, then you've got to make a choice, cause you can really only hunt with one rifle at a time. It can be excruciating!
The post by mag41vance is by no means complete.
 But, all seriousness aside, you're making a good selection, and you'll do well with it.
 Camping in the Colorado Rockies you say? You should be advising some of us! I hope you post pictures.     Woodbutcher
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Offline Mac11700

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2005, 05:37:06 AM »
I'll take a somewhat different approach to your dilima...first off...if your going into a area camping that has bears..."TAKE A BIG ENOUGH GUN"......

That aside...from the pure fun aspect...it's very hard to beat the 45-70...and yes I've had both ...several in fact...the 30-30 is a wonderfull cartridge...so is the 45-70...and you say
Quote
I also should say that I would be using factory loads, as I presently do not do any reloading.
..well picking up a few boxes of PMC ammo isn't that difficult...and their 350 grainers will do wonders on just about anything you'll ever encounter...and to reloading...it really doesn't take that much for a straight sided case...it isn't as difficult for a beginner...even with the most primative of tools...and it isn't as expensive either...if you use a Lee Hand Press and dipper set...you can make some very good loads with it...heck...you can even take it with you when you go camping and reload while there if you want...

Factory loads...plenty of them to be had...and specialty loads...most folks know about Buffalo Bore....Garrets....and Kodiak...they have some really awsome loadings that have been used in Africa and Alaska with great success...


I really like the 30-30...and for strickly whitetail hunting it's hard to beat...But...if there is even the romotest chance of encountering a bear..it's better to have a bigbore...and not use it...than to need it...and not have it...


Mac
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Offline quickdtoo

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2005, 05:52:21 AM »
There's a 2003 list of factory 45-70 ammo at the end of this thread....

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=6701

Good luck in your decision....

Tim
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Offline Woodbutcher

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Choice
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2005, 06:48:39 AM »
Bears. BEARS??!!! Oh that's right, you did mention BEARS. No problem!
 MA Duece, from inside the tank! Ya'll be careful now, ya hear?
                                                                      Woodbutcher
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Offline Mac11700

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2005, 06:50:31 AM »
That's some good info for those who don't reload Quick...seems like some of Conelys ammo would be just the ticket...moderately priced too from what I've seen...and consistant from what I've heard...

Mac
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Offline quickdtoo

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2005, 07:28:07 AM »
The prices have probably changed some, but it gives a non handloader an idea of what's available. Here's Conley Precision's web site..

http://www.cpcartridge.com/

Cookieman, just for perspective on the Lee Loader, I started out with it loading for my 45-70, it's cheap and you can make some pretty darn accurate loads that aren't heavy in recoil. 28gr of 2400 and the 350gr Hornady round nose bullet at about 1500fps make for a great combination, wouldn't hesitate to use it on a black bear. The Lee Loader can be had for less than $20, a Lee scale @$20, a pound of powder @ $18, 100 primers @ $2, 50 Hornady #4502 for $16, 100 cases for $30-$35....and you'll have fun doing it! :wink:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/51
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Offline Mac11700

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2005, 08:08:51 AM »
There you go....add the cost of a box of bullets.. a bag of brass...a can of powder...and a box of primers...you all set for your first 50-100 hand loads...it doesn't get much easy than that...and figure it this way...for what you will pay for a 100 factory rounds...you'll be able to buy everything listed...then for your next 100 rounds...and it will come sooner than you think...the cost will be for your components...less your brass....so this is where the " Savings" start as compared to buying factory...and you can start tayloring your loads to you and your rifle as well...

Mac
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Offline Woodbutcher

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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2005, 08:40:36 AM »
Mac:
  You do not save money by reloading ammo, you just get to shoot more.
                                                               Woodbutcher
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Offline mr.frosty

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2005, 09:05:04 AM »
i got both and i use factory lead but have a hankering to hand load someday got no griz here but the black bears have been taken with a
30-30.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: choice
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2005, 11:51:41 AM »
Quote from: Woodbutcher
Mac:
  You do not save money by reloading ammo, you just get to shoot more.
                                                               Woodbutcher


Ohhh Contrare my friend...you can most certainly save money...your saving money you would normally be spending on factory ammo... sure it gives you the opoutunity to shoot more...and buy more...the the savings is still there...no-matter how much you shoot...or reload...if you amoratize your total cost of equipment and components and time for load develope...and compare that to buying factory ammo you will see. you'll find your break even point...after that you'll start saving.....it is far cheaper to reload what you shoot... :toast:

Mac
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Offline Woodbutcher

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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2005, 11:56:26 AM »
Mac,...It's a joke...I'm just bein a smart %$#@...don't shoot!  Woodbutcher
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Offline Markus

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2005, 12:15:51 PM »
I spent a lot of time camping (sleeping in the truck) in the Colorado Rockies and never saw a bear close enough to worry about. I never got around to getting a rifle out there but I always had an 870 loaded with slugs. If you need bear killing machinery I think the 45-70 would be my choice. If I ever get a little more liesure time I want to get a 45-70 and start reloading.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: choice
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2005, 12:19:26 PM »
Quote from: Woodbutcher
Mac,...It's a joke...I'm just bein a smart %$#@...don't shoot!  Woodbutcher


   
   :)    I didn't take it any-other-way... :toast:

Mac
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Offline Woodbutcher

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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2005, 01:20:07 PM »
Dear Mac:
 Whew, thank you! I was OK till you wrote, if I  "amoratize". That scared the heck out of me!!!                                  Woodbutcher
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Offline Buffalogun

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2005, 01:34:57 PM »
Cookieman,  
 
If you may get into handloading your ammo, I'd take the 30-30 and rechamber to 30-30AI. It would extend you hunting reach.  
 
As for the BEARS, you only need to shoot your pardoner in the knee!!!  
 
 
 
Buffalogun 8)
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Offline James B

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2005, 01:45:04 PM »
45-70 no contest. :grin:
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Offline Cookiemann

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Re-Loading
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2005, 01:57:22 PM »
I hear what you're sayin' guys!  I hit the 2nd hand place today.  Ahlmans in Morristown, MN.  30-30 brass was 100/$10 and 45-70 was 20/$7.  I don't know, are those prices in the ball-park.  They don't carry Lee loaders so I will have to check those out at Gander.  I don't know about those guys at Ahlmans.  Their prices seem to be all over the page.  I saw 3 Handis in a row:  223/$239, 243(wood stock)/$249, and 243(Laminate)/$185.  They all were in Excellent condition, but I was really surprised the Laminate 243 was priced well for used and the others seemed way high for used.  Also, found 30-30/$249 and it was only in good condition.  Heck new at Wally for $188.  Topper 158-20ga/$99, good shape but AH serial numbers, there again, seemed a little high to me.
Also, did some checking for a Lymans Reloading Manual.  I can get that several places around here for under $30.  
After seeing the prices of factory cartriges, I realize, I must learn to reload.  Thanks for all the help guys.  If you think of anything you forgot to mention please pass it along.
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Offline Cookiemann

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Bears
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2005, 01:59:55 PM »
Quote from: Buffalogun
Cookieman,  
 
If you may get into handloading your ammo, I'd take the 30-30 and rechamber to 30-30AI. It would extend you hunting reach.  
 
As for the BEARS, you only need to shoot your pardoner in the knee!!!  
 
 
 
Buffalogun 8)


I hear that!  I have short legs, nearly everybody can outrun me! :-D
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Offline Cookiemann

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Grizz Attack
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2005, 02:04:52 PM »
Just saw a segment on OLN cable about that in Alaska in the Denalis.  The guy dropped and it blew right past him to his partner.  The partner survived because he was able to drop the 800 pounder with 1 shot.  They neglected to mention the type of rifle he used.  SHUCKS!
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Offline Cookiemann

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Re: Grizz Attack
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2005, 02:06:30 PM »
Quote from: Cookieman
Just saw a segment on OLN cable about that in Alaska in the Denalis.  The guy dropped and it blew right past him to his partner.  The partner survived because he was able to drop the 800 pounder with 1 shot.  They neglected to mention the type of rifle he used.  SHUCKS!


I did notice he had a single shot bolt action.  ONE SHOT-ONE KILL-ONE SAVED LIFE.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Re-Loading
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2005, 02:27:53 PM »
Quote from: Cookieman
I hear what you're sayin' guys!  I hit the 2nd hand place today.  Ahlmans in Morristown, MN.  30-30 brass was 100/$10 and 45-70 was 20/$7.  I don't know, are those prices in the ball-park.  They don't carry Lee loaders so I will have to check those out at Gander.  I don't know about those guys at Ahlmans.  Their prices seem to be all over the page.  I saw 3 Handis in a row:  223/$239, 243(wood stock)/$249, and 243(Laminate)/$185.  They all were in Excellent condition, but I was really surprised the Laminate 243 was priced well for used and the others seemed way high for used.  Also, found 30-30/$249 and it was only in good condition.  Heck new at Wally for $188.  Topper 158-20ga/$99, good shape but AH serial numbers, there again, seemed a little high to me.
Also, did some checking for a Lymans Reloading Manual.  I can get that several places around here for under $30.  
After seeing the prices of factory cartriges, I realize, I must learn to reload.  Thanks for all the help guys.  If you think of anything you forgot to mention please pass it along.


There's a Sportsmans Warehouse in Coon Rapids, they should carry the 45-70 Lee Loader as well as the manuals, powder, brass, primers and bullets. Brass cost $30-$35 for 100 at Midway, wouldn't expect to pay much more than that.

http://sportsmanswarehouse.com/stores/mn/coon_rapids.htm
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Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2005, 02:54:06 PM »
...45-70 and a Lee Loader!!!  Trust me, loading with the Lee Loader is very simple and plenty fast.  Check them out on Ebay and you should be able to get one for around $10.00, or $15.00 from Cabela's I do believe.

Jim
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Offline Nightrain52

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2005, 05:03:20 PM »
You have overlooked the obvious. The one do it all gun. 30-06. I'm not knocking the 45/70 or the 30/30 but if one gun is all you can afford or get for now this would be my choice. Like the 30/30 every place that sells ammo has 30-06 and there are a lot of different loadings for it. You can get light magnum loadings for it down to reduced recoil if recoil is a problem. If you start to reload the choices are immence. Get the 06 and then get the 45/70 and you have all bases covered. :D
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Offline Mac11700

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2005, 05:28:58 PM »
Quote from: Nightrain52
You have overlooked the obvious. The one do it all gun. 30-06. I'm not knocking the 45/70 or the 30/30 but if one gun is all you can afford or get for now this would be my choice. Like the 30/30 every place that sells ammo has 30-06 and there are a lot of different loadings for it. You can get light magnum loadings for it down to reduced recoil if recoil is a problem. If you start to reload the choices are immence. Get the 06 and then get the 45/70 and you have all bases covered. :D


Well ...I would normally agree with ya...but since he asked about the 30-30...or the 45-70...I went with what I thought was the better of the 2 choices...and...it is a-lot easier for a beginner to load a straight walled case to start out...heck...it easier for anyone to load a straight walled case over a bottle neck cartridge...and even though I agree on the versatility of the 30-06...I'd take a hot loaded 45-70 with a 350 grain...to 420 grain bullet anyday for something big trying to eat me... preferably something even larger...but that's best reserved for another thread... :-)

Mac
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Offline MGMorden

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2005, 05:37:21 PM »
Quote from: mr.frosty
i got both and i use factory lead but have a hankering to hand load someday got no griz here but the black bears have been taken with a
30-30.


One of my father's cousins dropped a black bear with a .22LR (it's what he had on him at the time); don't think I'd want to try that myself though ;).
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Offline quickdtoo

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If you could only have 1? 30-30 or 45-70
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2005, 05:43:07 PM »
Off topic, content deleted... :oops:
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