Remington triggers unsafe ?

[Muskie Hunter]

I have just been reading some other forums and to my dismay,I came across posts regarding the triggers on remington 700's as being unsafe.I am concerned as I have a new Remington 700 CDL.I also understand that there are law suits regarding the saftey issues of the Remingtons.Can anyone here enlighten me on this serious subject and give me any problem fixes.Had I not owned a computer and went eves dropping,I would have never known that a problem exists.Thankyou.

[Ramrod]

That's because no problem does exist. Every gun has it's detractors, and if you read enough of these forums, and believe everything, you wouldn't buy anything. Remingtons are unsafe, Rugers are inaccurate, Winchesters are made by the French, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Remington has one of the more easily adjustable factory triggers. But take it to a gunsmith for adjustment if you don't know how.

[Muskie Hunter]

Thanks Ramrod,
You made a lot of sence there.There are a lot of opinions out there and I never knew that there was even an inkling of a problem until I read other posts.That caused me to look into the matter more deeply and ask others,like yourself.I appriciate your speedy responce.Thanks again there pardner.

[nipprdog]

http://www.remington.com/Safety_Modification_Program/remington_safety.asp

[jvs]

As far as I know Remington has had problems with a specific Safety Mechanism, but I've never heard of any wide spread trigger problems.

Back in the 80's the some models would discharge when you set them  down.

Remington is usually pretty good with recalls.

[Ramrod]

Back in the 80's the some models would discharge when you set them  down.

No they would not.
Sorry, this is incorrect. Just more rumor repeating.
Go to the link nipprdog posted.

[JPSaxMan]

Back in the 80's the some models would discharge when you set them  down.

No they would not.
Sorry, this is incorrect. Just more rumor repeating.
Go to the link nipprdog posted.

No, Ramrod, half_inch is right to an extent. My friend has a 1960's model 600 Mowhawk that had that problem. You'd close the bolt, and bang. He sent it in to the re-call, problem never happened again. Of course, he's leery of it still, but it's no rumor. I don't know about the 700's, but obviously it was a real problem. Not just a rumor.

[beemanbeme]

If my name began with B and I made a lot of money changing out triggers and appearing as a professional witness with a vested interest in the outcome of the suit, I would be howling to high heavens about Remington's trigger.  And everything else about rifles in general that I thought I could make a buck off of.

The fact is, there have be suits against Remington about their trigger.  (let's face it, in this day and age, suing a deep pockets corporation is like winning the lottery) Another fact is, Remington has not paid any settlements nor damages.  Without exception, the triggers had been "bubba-ized" by someone that didn't know what they were doing.  I would like to add the aside that even tho a rifle has a trigger and a safety, it doesn't exempt you, the owner, from safe gun handling.

I have owned model 700 since well before the 80's.  In fact, my collection of Remington rifles pretty well spans the model 700.  I have tuned every trigger myself and I have never had a mis-fire.  Even when my rifle and I spent a good deal of time underneath a 1000lb horse while falling off a mountain in the Big Horns.  About half way down, I was kinda hoping the rifle would mis-fire and kill either me or the horse 'cause the horse didn't seem to be liking it any more than I was.  

I will tell this little story for whatever you think its worth:
I bought a new VS in 22-250.  I cleaned it, mounted the scope and tuned the trigger to 35 ozs.  The rifle was going to be used for target and varmint shooting and would be fired only single fire.  Also, I never touch the trigger until I am going to shoot.  I bounced the rifle on the floor, I put the safety on and pulled the triggere and then let the safety off, and all that neat stuff you're supposed to do to make sure the trigger and safety are doing their jobs.   Everything was fine.
That evening a buddy came over and I showed him my baby.  He worked the action t make sure it was empty and flipped the safety off. "CLICK"  He and I stood there big-eyed.  He did it again, "CLICK".  I took the rifle and couldn't get it to repeat.  
We finally figured out that he was holding his finger lightly on the trigger and when he flipped the safety off, his trigger finger was making an involuntary movement that was enough to cause the hammer to fall.  Even when we figured out what was happening, we couldn't put our finger on the trigger and take the safety off without our trigger finger moving enough to trip the trigger.

[JPSaxMan]

Beemanbeme, just a question. Isn't tuning a trigger down that low considered almost dangerous? I mean, if your friend had done that with a round in the chamber, say, when deer hunting, he mighta shot his foot off. Well, I'm sure you won't loan that gun to a friend :roll: .  

[Ramrod]

Back in the 80's the some models would discharge when you set them  down.

No they would not.
Sorry, this is incorrect. Just more rumor repeating.
Go to the link nipprdog posted.

No, Ramrod, half_inch is right to an extent. My friend has a 1960's model 600 Mowhawk that had that problem. You'd close the bolt, and bang. He sent it in to the re-call, problem never happened again. Of course, he's leery of it still, but it's no rumor. I don't know about the 700's, but obviously it was a real problem. Not just a rumor.

Fish, you have confused me. What does a 1960's model that fires when the bolt is closed have to do with 1980 models that supposedly fire all by themselves when you set them down.
I'll go alond with beemanbeme's explanation. Poor trigger work.

[JPSaxMan]

Oh, I misread half_inch's post. When he said "Put them down" I thought he meant like putting the bolt down. Oops. :oops: . Well, ok, you at least know that much... . I'll have to research that a lil more. I too have not heard of that.  :?  

[jvs]

Back in the 80's the some models would discharge when you set them  down.

No they would not.
Sorry, this is incorrect. Just more rumor repeating.
Go to the link nipprdog posted.

I figured you'd chime in with a opinion that would seem to be in direct conflict with my post.

The fact is......the Remington Pump action rifles DID have a problem with discharging when handled back in the late 70's and early 80's, due to a faulty safety mechanism.   The present  'recall' only applies to Bolt Action rifles, just like the link says.

While some of your posts may be accurate, your attitude needs work.  You may be turning into one of those guys that nobody cares what you think.

Getting back to the topic at hand, to my knowledge the Remington trigger never had any wide spread problems.  They have had real problems with some Safety's.

[beemanbeme]

Fishman, u r right if you are setting the trigger for a hunting rifle.  As I said in the post, the rifle was to be shot single fire at targets and varmints.  I also said that triggers and safeties DO NOT exempt the gun owner (handler) from safe gun handling.  

I meant to finish my post with the data that I set my hunting rifles at 3.5lbs but it didn't make it from brain to paper.  :eek:

[JPSaxMan]

Phew. I didn't mean to make it come across as tho I were calling you irresponsible. I didn't mean that at all. I just have no experience with triggers, and have only heard that any thing below 2 lbs for a hunting rifle is an accident waiting to happen :eek: .  

[beemanbeme]

I agree!  I have read post from folks that brag that they set their hunting rifles at  2.0lbs more or less.  Implying they were such skilled riflemen, that everything was under control.  I don't think that weight of pull factors in cold, wet fingers, gloves, nor the excitment of the moment.

[Lawdog]

Muskie Hunter,

I can give you SIX good reasons why I DO NOT buy NEW Remington rifles,

1.]  hideous safety

2.]  flimsy extractors

3.]  brazed on bolt handle

4.]  declining quality control

5.]  non existent customer service

6.]  a trigger group made from stamped metal

Once Remington used to make one of the very best rifles now they are a shadow of what they once were.  Lawdog
 

[JPSaxMan]

Lawdog, what about this hideous saftey? Mine seems to be fine. Extractors? What? I ain't gettin ya. Mine work fine, never had a problem. Brazed on bolt handle? Please elaborate. You must have something against Remington. Geez.  :?

[beemanbeme]

Hell, lawdog, I wouldn't buy them either if they were as you described.  Where are you getting your Remingtons?  China?  
Its a real hoot to me to listen to folks whining about the loss of QC with Remington and then recommend buying a Savage.  Keep buying those Savages, lawdog.  The only problem is, when its all said and done, all you've got is a Savage.  The only uglier rifle on the market is the CZ with that hog-backed euro stock.
tell me, how many Remington safeties have you had fail?  Extractors break?  Triggers fail?  bolt handles fall off?  Or is you information purely from hearsay and travel brosures?  You haven't been listening to old Jack B have you?

[dukkillr]

here's something, i have remington that I PERSONALLY had the trigger fail on.  You don't have to believe it, quite frankly I don't care.  I know some people love certain companies so much they refuse to hear negative reports about them.  I still have the gun, and after having the trigger worked on by 2 different shops it works correctly.  

The only other rifles I own are a custom rifle made in a small shop on a mauser action, a springfield '03 sporterized, and a pre-64 70.  I don't buy Savages or CZs or any other rifle that can apparently hurt my argument.

I don't understand why people keep arguing about this point.  I believe the 700s are a fine product in general but to ignore the numerous reports of problems is to stick your head in the sand.  Like I said, I still own mine.  I still use it, but I'm not going to sit here and say that anyone who claims to have a problem with one is an idiot or a liar because I know they aren't.

[Ramrod]

The fact is, there have be suits against Remington about their trigger.  (let's face it, in this day and age, suing a deep pockets corporation is like winning the lottery) Another fact is, Remington has not paid any settlements nor damages. Without exception, the triggers had been "bubba-ized" by someone that didn't know what they were doing.  I would like to add the aside that even tho a rifle has a trigger and a safety, it doesn't exempt you, the owner, from safe gun handling.

And this is the reason some companies make guns with non-adjustable triggers. Nowadays, you have to idiot-proof, and lawyer-proof everything.

[sniperVLS]

The fact is, there have be suits against Remington about their trigger.  (let's face it, in this day and age, suing a deep pockets corporation is like winning the lottery) Another fact is, Remington has not paid any settlements nor damages. Without exception, the triggers had been "bubba-ized" by someone that didn't know what they were doing.  I would like to add the aside that even tho a rifle has a trigger and a safety, it doesn't exempt you, the owner, from safe gun handling.

And this is the reason some companies make guns with non-adjustable triggers. Nowadays, you have to idiot-proof, and lawyer-proof everything.

you read my mind  :-D

[JPSaxMan]

Yep, that's bout the size of it. That's why we have to be politically correct otherwise we get sued for being disrespectful. Pluhease. But, we'll get back to the topic of Remington triggers.

Lawdog, man, I think a few of us are dying for your reasons. I mean, I'd really love to know. I think beemanbeme would too. Come on, spill the beans.  

[Lawdog]

beemanbeme,

Its a real hoot to me to listen to folks whining about the loss of QC with Remington and then recommend buying a Savage. Keep buying those Savages, lawdog. The only problem is, when its all said and done, all you've got is a Savage.

Don't worry I and many others will keep buying Savages.  Not because they are lower in cost but due to the fact they are accurate.  And son, that's what counts.  The prettiest rifle in the world isn't any good if you can't hit what you'er aiming at.

The only uglier rifle on the market is the CZ with that hog-backed euro stock.

The only true UGLY rifles are those that don't do what they were designed to do and that is be accurate.

tell me, how many Remington safeties have you had fail?

None that I owned personally BUT I have seen two that did.  Both brand new, nver fired.

Extractors break?

This is an old problem with Remington extractors.  The recommended cure is for your smith to replace with a Sako extractor.

Triggers fail?

I believe what I said was "a trigger group made from stamped metal" which is the truth.

bolt handles fall off?

I saw one at the gunsmith's shop so I asked him if he got many and his answer was YES.

Or is you information purely from hearsay and travel brosures? You haven't been listening to old Jack B have you?

I don't spread rumors.

The reason I bought my Savage rifle is because I wanted to see for myself if the stories were true about their accuracy and it was.  It all started when my son bought one and it shot a sight-in group that measured a hair over .3" for the first three shots.  As for "Jack B" I don't know who Jack B is.  You can read about my experiences in my reply to Fishman029 that follows.  Lawdog
 

[Lawdog]

Fishman029,

Lawdog, man, I think a few of us are dying for your reasons. I mean, I'd really love to know. I think beemanbeme would too. Come on, spill the beans.

You asked for it so here it goes.   :eek:

I own a number Remington's(M721's, M722's, M725 and two M700 BDL's) that shoot and work great BUT all were made before 1980. My troubles started with the purchase of a M700 BDL in .308 caliber in 1987.  No matter what we did, short of doing stock work, the rifle wouldn't shoot groups under 4" @ 100 yards.  I sent the rifle back to Remington, as per their request, for service.  After hearing nothing  for four weeks I called Remington's Customer Service department and was told that they had never received my rifle.

After reading them the date, time and the name of the person that signed for the delivery from the UPS receipt they managed to find my rifle.  They promised to get back to me within 72 hours with a report on my rifle.  WRONG.  A week later I called them again and get a report that they could not find anything wrong with my rifle after inspecting it.  I asked if they fired it to check the grouping it gave. NO, but they would and get back to me.

Again a week later I'm back on the phone and get told they had mailed a report to me and I should have it shortly and to call them back after I had read it.  Came by pony express I guess because it took near two weeks for the report to get here.  The report said that after test firing the rifle they found nothing wrong and that groupings of 4" @ 100 yards was “WITHIN COMPANY STANDARDS”. After discussing this with my attorney and a few letters to Remington by him, Remington finely refunded my money, AFTER just over 11 months.

Stupid me I figured that this was an isolated incident and a few years later I again bought another M700 BDL.  Got it home and dissembled it for cleaning.  The inletting of the action looked like it had been done with a box axe by a cross-eyed baboon.  Again I returned to the store where I bought it, it was a special ordered item, and showed him the stock. We again called Remington and again they said return the rifle for service.  So I did.  To make a LONG story short it only took 9 months to get satisfaction out of Remington this time.

I went through this same B.S. with a M870 Marine 12 ga. that I got for a duty shotgun.  I sold it(some other sucker has that problem child) and bought a Winchester Defender model and have been very happy that I did.

If you have the bad luck to have a problem with a Remington product, I wish you GOOD LUCK as their customer service department really doesn't exist.  They sure don't care.  I know of many other hunters/shooters that can and will tell you about the nightmares they have had with Remington's Customer Service Department.  What good is a product when the company won't back that product and that is why, until things change at Remington, I CAN’T and WON’T recommend Remington products to anyone.  Lawdog
 

[Ramrod]

Lawdog, your experience with Remington Customer Service is 180 degrees opposite from anyone I have ever known. If they were even close to being as bad as you claim, they would have ceased to be in buissiness years ago. Maybe you got a bad deal, but you ain't gonna convince anyone here to buy those cheap, ugly rifles you love so much.

[JPSaxMan]

Well, Lawdog, I've always respected what you have to say and still do and intend to continue to. I just disagree with you on this issue. Obviously your experiences are real, not rumors. Maybe they had something against you?   That's extremely rare, I'd venture to say. But something NOT to be reckoned with. However, I think experiences as the such barely occur if ever with everyday purchases/exchanges through Remington. I don't blame you for NOT buying a Remington. Maybe one of us could buy it for you :wink: .  

[sniperVLS]

this is the first ive ever heard anything like that.

id venture to say that within my extended family, there are atleast 40 to 50 remington rifles/shotguns scattered about. Some go back 50 years, while others are 3 weeks old. I myself have bought a VLS, my cousin got the so called "piece of crap 710 that cant shoot straight" and a friend also got a VLS, all within the last few weeks. Oh, and my other cousin got a 870 express(very common shotgun in our family, along with wingmasters) and its as all the other remingtons ive encountered, rock solid and a great performer.

my cousins 710 turns out to be very very accurate. Not quite the tack driver my VLS is but according to forums, the 710 is garbage. I disagree. My uncles buying one after shooting it, we shall see how his is after a few weeks go by and a decent amount of rounds get shot thru it. I dont care what people say, a rifle package that includes a bore sighted scope for 350.00 is excellent. Especially when it shoots as good as it does. My cousin wouldnt have gotten a rifle otherwise.

I'm only 31, But Ive had 9 remingtons in my lifetime, starting from the age of 9. my 10th is hopefully in the works, and #11 will be a wingmaster in a couple of weeks. I can almost guarantee they will work flawlessly.

sucks that you had such problems, but I must say, and I dont mean to offend...

..your nuts for bothering with another one after the crap you were put thru the 1st time. Id say you were asking for it. Ok dont ban me! LOL

Id rather have a malfunctioning Remington than a working Savage. Yeah Im a jackbong, but atleast Im an honest jackbong.  

[Siskiyou]

The safety on the Remington 722, 788, and 700 are not my favorite.  Most of my hunting is in steep country and some of my rifle's time is spent hanging from my right shoulder.  The problem with that is the tendency of the safety to rub off when carried on the shoulder.

I do not encounter this problem with the Rem. 760, Ruger M77 tang safety, and the Savage 110 safety.  The Savage safety is great because it is easy for a right or left handed shooter to operate, it is well protected and is unlikely to be accidently released.  If I was buying a rifle for a young hunter the Savage 110 would be to the front of the line.

People with bad habits cause problems.  One of those problems with the Remington occurs when knuckle head drags a loaded rifle from a vehicle seat.  The exposed safety is rubbed off  and the foolish or untrained, or untrainable person places their finger in the trigger guard.  The problem is with an unsafe operator, not the rifle.

This can be a problem with the Enfield Mark 4 and 5.  I suspect the other British rifles have this problem.

When I was a kid a friend had his Winchester 94 go off in the family pickup.  What rules were broken?  A loaded rifle in the vehicle.  A young hunter messing with the loaded rifle.  Failed parenting when it came to handling firearms.  No matter how much training a kid has had they require monitoring.  Some adults also require monitoring.

How do I treat my Remington bolt actions.  With caution as I treat all firearms.  But I am always checking on muzzle direction, and if the safety is on, because I know it will rub off.  I keep my finger out of the trigger guard.  I have carried Remington bolts in the field for a lot of years.  Never have I had one break or accidently discharge.

I bought a new Savage left handed bolt in 1970.  I have never been embarrassed by it's looks.  I have enjoyed the deer meat it has provide.  And it has never failed to function.  I have glassed the action but I have also glassed the action of my Remington bolts.  So what is the big deal.

P.S.  The 870 is a great shotgun.  I hated turning in my 870 when I retired.  I have seen the 870 fire hundreds of times on the range, and in combat course.  The only failure I witness was when an extention tube flew off.  Acturally it was good that it happen.  Everybody was very carefull when re-installing extention tubes after that.  Some chose not to have extention tubes.

[JPSaxMan]

I've never had a problem with my Remington saftey. If anything, I found it extremely stiff to operate in the cocked and locked position. But that's just me.  

[Lawdog]

Fishman029, Ramrod - Can you tell me just how many times have you had dealings with Remington Customer Service because you have had a problem with one of their products?  Lawdog