Author Topic: Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp  (Read 17623 times)

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Offline Terry1

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« on: March 06, 2005, 11:35:05 AM »
Does anyone have any reccomendations for good self defense ammo for a 32.acp. Something thats reliable, accurate, and feeds well. It will be shot through a Beretta Tomcat. Whats better in a short barreled gun, fmj or jhp? Thanks

Offline Mikey

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2005, 11:51:39 AM »
Terry1:  for a 32 acp I would recommend a fmj bullet.  It will give you the best penetration you can expect from the 32 automatic.  If you use the 60 grain expanding hps, er whatever, you lose penetration with expansion.  I never favored the lightweight expanding bullets in small autos as that hampers what the caliber can do.  

The Beretta Tomcat is a nice pistol.  I do not recall from first reading about it that the use of loads like the Winchester 60 gn hps was recommended.  I think they used solids, or fmjs.  I think Centerfire Systems currently has a sale on Sellier and Bellot 73 gn fmj 32 acps and they are probably as good as you are going to get in that caliber with ball ammo.  I do not think your Beretta will suffer from the use of those standard pressure 32s.  Also, if you like the 32 automatic, they also have some Manhurin made Walther PPs in 32 acp going for a good price and those I have seen on the range have some wear, but shoot great.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline Savage

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2005, 05:03:58 PM »
Terry,
The Seller and Bellot is good hot ammo for the 32acp. I bought a quanity of it to test a couple of P-32s a few years ago. I had several misfires with it due to the hard primers. Be sure and test a good quanity of it before using it as carry ammo. I would have used the S & B as carry ammo if it had been reliable. I prefer ball for carry in the 32acp.
Savage
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Offline JohnClif

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DON'T buy ball ammo for defense in .32 ACP!
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2005, 12:50:14 PM »
The .32 ACP belongs to the class of what I call the "eye, ear, nose, and throat" guns... because those are your preferred aiming points.

Seriously, the .32 ACP earned its anemic reputation as a poor self-defense round because shooting someone with ball ammo is akin to stabbing them with a Phillips head screwdriver. It hurts, it very well may kill them... eventually, but it isn't going to stop them unless you stab them in the right place. Buying ball ammo is an attempt to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse... and it ain't gonna work. Use Winchester Silvertips instead... they do expand because the lighter bullet goes fast enough, and they penetrate enough to let the expansion actually do some good.

If you're bound and determined to carry ball in this caliber because you want penetration, you're fooling yourself and you're probably going to end up dead if you are forced to resort to using your gun and ammo in a defensive situation. If you really need penetration, because of winter and people are wearing thick clothes, etc., then choose another caliber... like the 9mm.

There are two components to "stopping power", the physical and the psychological. Physical stopping power (absolute stopping power) is caused by turning the brain off by destroying enough vital tissue that the attacker can no longer function. Hit someone in the brain, the aorta, the carotid artery or jugular vein, the spinal column, or some other area where even a relatively minor injury will cause an immediately life-threatening or -ending injury, and they're going to be stopped.

Psychological stopping power is the more uncertain of the two, and it occurs when the person who's attacking you becomes more worried about their own survival than in continuing the attack against you... whether or not your hit was life-threatening or whether or not you even have to shoot (that's why pointing a gun at the bad guy discourages many of them). For instance, hit someone in the shin with a bullet and it's going to HURT. Shoot them in the jaw and shoot out a few teeth on the way in, and it's going to HURT. Of course, for pyschological stopping power to have an effect, the person you have shot must have the mental wherewithal to realize that he has indeed been shot and to consider the effect on himself.

I have talked to police officers who are dealing with people on crystal meth, or PCP, on a regular basis. People under the influence of these drugs can become fairly numb to pain, and can also be in a psychotic state where reality won't intrude. My LE friends have told me of being attacked by a naked PCP freak (seems a recurrent theme is for PCP addicts to end up naked because the drug makes them think they're really hot... even in the winter), and breaking this person's arm with a restraining hold yet the attacker still kept trying to attack because he felt no pain and didn't realize his arm was broken. That's when you see a bunch of cops clubbing an attacker with their batons, pepper-spraying them (they don't feel pain, but swollen membranes make it hard for them to breathe), etc. Shades of Rodney King (who I believe was "dusted").

If you are attacked by someone on PCP, or crystal meth, or some other substance that deadens pain and reduces the user to an animal, raging state once the adrenaline starts flowing, then chances are you are going to have to physically destroy enough of their body to eliminate their capability to continue the attack because they aren't going to respond to psychological stopping power. These criminals are the reason we have .223s and 12ga shotguns loaded with double-ought buck. Like the Moro juramentados in the Phillipines who withstood multiple hits from the .38 Special and kept on coming (some of those guys were shot repeatedly with Krags and kept on coming), and like a charging grizzly, you're going to have to shoot for bone and break them down.

The .32 ACP is really too anemic to be a primary self-defense handgun. I know, they're nice to carry (I have a Seecamp), but they're really the gun you carry when you can't carry anything bigger... and you need to realize you are basically shooting a .32 drill. My strategy when I'm carrying the .32 has always been to load it with Silvertips, act like a complete wuss if someone confronts me with a deadly weapon, sucker them into complacency, and then ambush them as I go to draw my 'wallet' and empty the gun into their upper chest and neck... and then run like hell.

Quite frankly, a S&W Airlight weighs less than a Seecamp or Guardian (and not much more than a P32), hits a LOT harder, penetrates a LOT better, is more reliable than ANY semiautomatic, isn't that much harder to conceal... can you see why I seldom carry my Seecamp anymore? Also, despite the rudimentary sights, I have no problem keeping them all on a B27 or IPSC target at 25 yards, and head shots within 10 yards rapid fire are also easy (all it takes is proper instruction and practice).

Offline Redhawk1

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2005, 01:03:23 PM »
I second the Winchester Silvertips.  :D
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Offline Mikey

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2005, 02:37:42 AM »
Terry1:  Up in the General Handgun Discussion Forum there is a thread on Head Shots, with some excellent discussion.  You may wish to peruse that thread for some additional insights.  Mikey.

Offline dawei

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Re: DON'T buy ball ammo for defense in .32 ACP!
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2005, 04:22:21 AM »
Quote from: JohnClif
<SNIP>If you are attacked by someone on PCP, or crystal meth, or some other substance that deadens pain and reduces the user to an animal, raging state once the adrenaline starts flowing, then chances are you are going to have to physically destroy enough of their body to eliminate their capability to continue the attack because they aren't going to respond to psychological stopping power. These criminals are the reason we have .223s and 12ga shotguns loaded with double-ought buck. Like the Moro juramentados in the Phillipines who withstood multiple hits from the .38 Special and kept on coming (some of those guys were shot repeatedly with Krags and kept on coming), and like a charging grizzly, you're going to have to shoot for bone and break them down. <SNIP again>


I agree with everything you stated except about the 38. The weak caliber in the Phillipine Insurection was the 38 Colt; not the 38 Special.

Offline Almtnman

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Re: Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2005, 08:59:08 AM »
Quote from: Terry1
Does anyone have any reccomendations for good self defense ammo for a 32.acp. Something thats reliable, accurate, and feeds well. It will be shot through a Beretta Tomcat. Whats better in a short barreled gun, fmj or jhp? Thanks


I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than .38 special caliber for self defense. The .32 acp is just a bit too mild to really be considered as a good caliber for self defense. I know there's a few that will disagree with me and I know of a guy that took out 3 guys with a .25 acp, but you have to remember in a defensive situation, a person is not going to react the same then as they would at the range. So, you need something in a bigger caliber that will knock the offender down quick and fast no matter where the hit is.
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Offline elyod56

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2005, 08:28:21 AM »
i use winchester silvertips in my tomcat. i hope i never have to find out  whether they are effective or not

Offline Lawdog

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2005, 12:14:12 PM »
I too use 60 gr. Super-X Silvertip HP's in my PPK but I don't use it for personal carry(gift from a client).  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline dogngun

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2005, 11:38:46 AM »
I use only ball ammo in my Keltec .32, either Federal or Fiocchi. The ball is reliable and penetrates. Both brands are accurate at 10 yards. The Fiocchi is a little hotter.
Never had a failure with either brand.

Practice  so you hit what you want to hit.


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Offline Dusty Miller

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2005, 09:42:07 PM »
This is the BEST way to use a .32 ACP.  First of all, UNLOAD the weapon.  Then,  when accosted by a criminal "accidently" drop the gun and when the stoops to pick it up either draw a REAL gun or give him a good swift kick in a sensitive spot and run like hell.
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline Mohawk

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2005, 11:12:28 AM »
My partner carried a .22mag snub when he was a tunnel rat with ball and it did OK. The Hong Kong police used the .32 ACP with ball for decades and they think it works OK. I wouldn't trust a 60gr. Silvertip to get through a average man's pectoral reliably. I've seen ball not do this and they were popped out like pimples. And boy, was that lady mad! However, most of the time ball will get through. Silvertips is iffy at best.

Offline Dusty Miller

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2005, 09:14:22 PM »
Well, for my money, "....most of the time...." is just flat not good enough.
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline S.S.

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2005, 10:00:11 AM »
The .32 acp really does not have that bad of a track record
in actual shootings that I know of, but My list is short
for that caliber. Mine is perfectly reliable with ball ammo,
but does not like hollowpoints at all. I have a model 1930
J.P.Sauer & Son that is made like a fine watch, but
to me there are much better choices out there than a .32
The ammo I use was made by GECO and is FMJ.
It functions perfectly.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline doc S

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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2005, 08:53:13 AM »
Have you ever looked at this ammo manufacturer?
This is what I have my Kel-Tec P32 loaded with.

As they say, any gun is better than no gun...

I carry as the situation allows for... Sometimes it only allow's for my small P32, still others allow for my Kimber .45...

Here's a link to some interesting pictures of what this ammo can do...

http://www.rbcd.net/gelatin%20photos.html
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Offline doc S

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RBCD
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2005, 09:07:26 AM »
Have you ever looked at this ammo manufacturer?
This is what I have my Kel-Tec P32 loaded with.

As they say, any gun is better than no gun...

I carry as the situation allows for... Sometimes it only allow's for my small P32, still others allow for my Kimber .45...

Here's a link to some interesting pictures of what this ammo can do...

http://www.rbcd.net/gelatin%20photos.html
PSALMS 27
The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
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Offline randyb

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ammo
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2005, 05:00:27 PM »
Peronally in my Kel-tec I carry ball ammo (right now federal since I got a great deal on it but any reputible company would be fine) in the winter, in summer I carry Fiocchi. JHP.  Ammoman.com (I think thats the right site) showed this round to penetrate as effectively in cloth as effective as ball and in bare gelatin to expand.  "the best fo both worlds".  I also plan to forget anything like double taps and to empty the thing into them.  (BTW I carry two spare mags with hardball) and if my clothing options allow either my: S&W 6906, Kimber Eclipse, Ruger GP-100 or SP-101.  I also tend to carry it as my packup to the other guns.
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Offline Dusty Miller

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2005, 09:34:27 PM »
If any of you guy's are pack'n a 32 ACP gun for self-defense I hope you are never confronted by a "criminal" more dangerous than old Mrs. Jones armed with her umbrella!  :)
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline yuppie

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Nobody wants to get shot.
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2005, 08:28:15 AM »
A bullet in you means either death from infection, or prison.  Medical personnel by law have to report gunshot wounds to the cops, so you get locked up if you can't account for the bullet wound being of a non-crimianal nature.

9 out of 10x, you wont have to hit anyone to stop the attack. A .32 is as good a "bluff" as anything else. However, so is a .22lr, and the .22lr can be a lot more useful, accurate, and so on, and the .22 ammo allows  15x as much practice for the necessary head shots.   The .32 aint a lick better than the .22lr when you shoot animals with both.

Offline S.S.

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2005, 08:25:20 AM »
True it is not the best defensive round in the world,
But neither is a 44 magnum. This cartridge was used by
several countries in WWI as a general issue combat cartridge.
And by all the sources I have seen it gave a pretty good
account for itself. Several other military cartridges were also
pretty close to it in power. 7.65 french - 7.5 swiss - 8mm steyr
- 8mm gasser - 7.62x38 Russian....  None of these are considered
manstoppers but they did a sufficient job at the time.
All statistics I have put the .22 Lr as killing more people that
any other non-military cartridge and the .32 ACP is at least
more powerful than it is.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline IntrepidWizard

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2005, 08:41:22 AM »
Been carring a 1939 Chrome PP Wermacht for 50 years,use truncated bullets only,shot everything but a Human it seems like and it does stop what it hits and I fire 2 round bursts.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline red_ford_truck

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shot placement
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2005, 04:59:21 AM »
........firefighter/paramedic here (and gun nut as well!!!).........

Having been to nearly 2 dozen shootings by civilians armed with what most would call 'saturday night specials', I would like to add my 2 cents to the mix.

1.  Everyone I have ever treated/seen shot in the chest cavitydied at the scene........25ACP, 380 ACP FMJ, 22LR, 38SPL, 9mm......
all dead........
I do not believe that ball ammo is merely a knife wound.......it is a supersonic projectile.  And that puts an entirely different twist on the matter.

2. Shooting stats.........gotta love'em!
How many cops carry 25 ACP?  How many gun nuts carry 25 ACP?
How many untrained, drunk of their ass, pissed off wives have a 25ACP?
See my point?
If cops for the last 50 years had carried frying pans instead of our beloved 357, Id have to guess the 'one stop shot' percentage of the frying pan would have been better than said 25 ACP.
People that carry a gun for a living and people that are gun nuts are better shots than folks who cant scrape up the rent on their 50 dollar a week crap hole on Cleveland's east side.......

In summation, I have to believe that FMJ placed in the thoracic cavity will always work for most folks........me, Ive got a Makarov loaded with 9 FMJ weighing 95 gr.......If that doesnt solve my problem, I need an MP-5.
rft

Offline Savage

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Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2005, 10:56:55 AM »
rft,
Good post! I have seen subjects shot multiple times in the chest cavity survive. I'm talking major calibers here! Had a buddy take two 44 mags to the chest and one to the hand and arm. All but one were shoot thrus. The one that didn't exit, lodged just behind the shoulder blade under the skin. The man is now retired, and runs his families' farm. On the other hand, I have seen DRTs from a single wound from a .22!! Goes to show, no two shootings are the same.
Savage
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Offline Buffalo_Hunter

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Go with 32acp Silvertips.
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2005, 10:01:19 PM »
Here's what I think. If you have a 32 acp gun that you are comfortable with,can use properly and will have it with you,all of the time,rather than a larger gun left at home,carry the gun you want to. I often times carry my Seecamp 32(loaded with Silvertips) in an Alessi pocket holster,in my front right pants pocket.I've never needed it ,but am always glad it's there when I walk out of the house.
We can all debate the stopping power of different calibers and the need to have a big gun with you,but let me ask all of you the following questions:
1. What would you do if someone stuck a gun in your face or pointed it at you in close quarters? I for one would be none too pleased and would do everything to try and stop whatever conflict was occuring,thus the criminal element might just be deterred and surprised to have some victim defend himself with a "so called mouse gun"
2. I have a strong desire to avoid suffering a gun shot wound,no matter what the calibre,and think most folks would agree with this position.Would a small gun make you more likely to accept the chance of being shot? It would scare me to death,no matter what size gun or bullet
3. Would you rather have a 32 in your hand,when a problem takes place that is life threatening or the "big gun" that's at home,that you left home because it was too heavy,too big,too akward,too hard to hide,etc,etc.

I would certainly want the largest gun and calibre that I could hold if I ever need to defend myself,but think that it makes really good sense to have that failsafe in my pocket eery moment that I am out and about.
If we knew when the balloon would go up,we would avoid being there,but we don't have that luxury,and proper self defense always means being prepared all of the time.  
The best self defense is avoidance of conflict at all costs,but when there is no other answer to defend yourself to every possibility.

Offline Buffalo_Hunter

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I just read all of the posts here again
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2005, 10:17:15 PM »
I just re read all of the posts here and can't think of anything that is sure to be effective in stopping an aggressor short of an injury to the brain or central nervous system.I guess that's why I rely on a 12 guage Benelli riot gun loaded with slugs and buckshot or an HK Model 93 with a full clip of 223 as a home defense gun.The only problem with these is that they are kind of hard to conceal on a daily basis.
I love my Glocks ( Model 19 and 26) and carry them with Cor Bon 115 grain JHP,and feel better about defending myself with them than my 32 Seecamp.but would be glad to have that 32 if the Glocks were at home.
I know that some will say the 9mm is weak and ineffective,and that a 40 or 45 is what you need,but I can hit where I shoot with the 9mm and can control the gun,and most importantly I feel comfy with the 9mm.As the old saying goes,you pay your money and make your choices.

Offline JohnClif

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Chest shot fatalities...
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2006, 07:38:36 PM »
The one thing this statistic didn't tell us is how long the person who was shot was capable of counterattacking after he (or she) was shot.

I agree, any untreated gunshot wound to the chest is invariably fatal... some more rapidly than others. However, people can survive long enough to escape... or kill you.

I had a roommate in college who decided to drive an ice cream truck during the summer break... in New Orleans. Part of his route went through a very bad area. He was robbed once, at knifepoint, and was scared enough that he was going to quit, but decided to stick it out for the last week or so.

The second-to-last day of his job, he was robbed again by a person with a gun. When the robber pointed the gun at him and said "Gimme all your money!", Lloyd made the mistake of saying, "I don't think that's a real gun" before he gathered the cash and gave it to the robber. After getting the money, the robber shot Lloyd once in the chest with a .22LR revolver. Both robber and Lloyd took off running. Lloyd made it a couple of blocks before he collapsed in someone's yard due to blood loss and a collapsed lung, but he lived long enough for the ambulance to get there and get him to a hospital where he was patched up (and survived, obviously).

Lloyd's shooting has all sorts of lessons.

• If you're in a high-risk environment, get body armor!

• Don't challenge a robber, either physically or verbally, unless you have the ability to overwhelm him successfully. Telling a robber you don't think his gun is real is right up there in the Top Ten list of stupid last remarks.

• People who are shot in the chest often have the physical capability to respond, and if they're armed and inclined they can kill you even though they might die shortly afterward. Shoot until you are SURE the threat no longer exists!

I carry a .32 Seecamp when I can't carry something bigger, but I have no illusions about its stopping power. I often refer to my Seecamp as my "eye, ear, nose, and throat" gun because those are the optimal targets for the caliber. My strategy, when armed with it, is to either verbally or physically reduce my attacker's ability to respond quickly, and then to shoot him repeatedly, at the neck/torso junction, until the gun goes 'click!' instead of 'bang!'... and then run like hell!

I am lucky enough to live in a state where the weather is such that for nine months out of the year carrying something bigger, e.g., a Glock 23 or a 1911, in a strong-side waist holster, is feasible.

Offline Gastube

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Re: RBCD
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2006, 10:57:49 AM »
Quote from: doc S


As they say, any gun is better than no gun...

I carry as the situation allows for... Sometimes it only allow's for my small P32............


I agree.
I carry a Glock 27 most of the time. When I can’t,  it’s a Kel-Tec P32 with Corbon 60 grain JHP’s.

Offline Pop

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Re: Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2010, 02:16:39 AM »

Offline shot1

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Re: Good self defense ammo for a 32.acp
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2010, 03:01:55 AM »
I use to carry a Kel-tec 32 as a pocket pistol. I had to shoot a few wounded or car hit deer with it. I was using the Corbon 60 gr hp and Rem FMJ ammo. After shooting 4 deer point plank in the neck and head I decided to get rid of the 32. It just does not have what it takes to stake my life on even with a head shot unless you put it through someones eye. If the skull of a deer will deflect or stop a bullet then a human skull will also. Now for a pocket pistol I carry a Kel-tec 380 and the 90 gr Corbon jhp. The one wounded deer I shot with it was enough to let me know if I had to use my pocket pistol to save my life and I shoot for the head the threat is over. The 380 acp has a lot more going for it than the 32 acp. For my primary self-defense weapon I carry nothing less caliber than a 9mm.

The best advice is. "Keep shooting until the gun goes click or the threat is neutralized, then run and call 911." When the LEO's show up the first words out of your mouth should be. I was in fear for my life. The second statement should be I want a lawyer. Then KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Because that dope head, crazy fool, mugger/rapist that you just shot will be turned into an angel by his friends and family when you are in court trying to justify defending your life.