Camp Gun

[Old Griz]

:cb2: I just got this email from the Colorado Division of Wildlife:

BOY TREATED AND RELEASED AFTER BEING INJURED BY BEAR
A 14-year old Texas boy was treated and released from a Salida hospital for injuries suffered in an attack by a black bear around 1 a.m. Tuesday morning.
 
The boy and his brother were sleeping in a tent at a private campground near Coaldale, Colorado when the bear came into the tent.  The boy was bitten on the left hand and received some scratches and bruises during the struggle with the bear.
 
Colorado Division of Wildlife (DOW) officials will set a trap for the bear tonight to try to capture it.
 
The rest of the boy’s family was sleeping in a hard-sided camper nearby.  They took him to Heart-of-the-Rockies Regional Medical Center where he received stitches and antibiotics to prevent infection.
 

Black bears attack more folks that grizzlies, and there's a whole passle more of 'em, in a lot more places. Yep, the smallest thing that will be on my hip (or in my sleeping bag) will a  be a .41 or a .44 mag. The only reason it won't be anything bigger, is because I don't have anything bigger at the moment. I don't see it as playing cowboy—it's just playing it safe.

[Keith L]

Black bears attack more folks that grizzlies, and there's a whole passle more of 'em, in a lot more places. Yep, the smallest thing that will be on my hip (or in my sleeping bag) will a be a .41 or a .44 mag. The only reason it won't be anything bigger, is because I don't have anything bigger at the moment. I don't see it as playing cowboy—it's just playing it safe.

And how many folks will you hurt in the campground when you are blazing away at the bear?  My neighbor showed me his Desert Eagle 50 the other day, that he bought for protection.  He can kill people six or eight houses away with that thing.

I just spent a couple weeks camping, most of it in Colorado.  Never saw a bear, never had any trouble with people.  My bet is most of us campers never need a side arm.  And had you shown up in the parks with a gun on your hip I am sure you would have been shown the gate.

[inluvwithsara]

with that logic my friend...I have never been attacked by a thug, nor my wife rapped...so why carry a gun...and I have never had a fire in my house...so why have a fire extinguisher...
It is a tool, and yes I went though my Desert Eagle phase(I am so ashamed),  but relized that it is a fussy gun and I am better with a wheel gun...(and a 1911 will out perform the de on man sized targets...)
I still think one is unwise going into the brush without a compass, knife, gun, lighter, and flashlight...(not to mention water, a whistle, and some food.)
If I somehow live to 90, and never had a need for the gun on my waist, I will be happy it was there...as my pop, his year in Nam with a 1911 on his waist...he thanks the Lord he never needed it, but was sure glad to know it was there...

[Keith L]

One of the most interesting facts that surfaced from the westward migration of wagons along the various trails heading west from St. Louis et al is that more people died and were wounded by accidents with their guns carried for protection that from all other causes put together.  These folks were more likely to have regular contact with guns than most modern folks.  

Regardless of the propaganda and posturing uness people are trained in the use of deadly force, and regularly practice those skills, they are a hazard to themselves and those around them if they try using guns for defense.  Most of the folks I speak with that surround themselves with loaded guns have no idea of how to effectively use them if they had to.

I hope all who weigh in on this board never need to use deadly force.  I suspect most who feel so secure with that gun on their hip would not find it so easy to use if they had to.

[Leverdude]

I'd be very suprised if anyone here found it easy to shoot someone. Doesn't mean it wont need to be done tho. Why can't  people camp with a gun if they choose? I dont always but I wouldnt be found someplace they werent allowed. That decision is mine alone.

Regardless of the propaganda and posturing uness people are trained in the use of deadly force, and regularly practice those skills, they are a hazard to themselves and those around them if they try using guns for defense. Most of the folks I speak with that surround themselves with loaded guns have no idea of how to effectively use them if they had to.

Maybe you ought to change who you hang around with.

One of the most interesting facts that surfaced from the westward migration of wagons along the various trails heading west from St. Louis et al is that more people died and were wounded by accidents with their guns carried for protection that from all other causes put together. These folks were more likely to have regular contact with guns than most modern folks.

Never head that one before.
 :roll:   So I take it your one of those that think guns for hunting are ok but the rest are somehow dangerous? Well in that case its my opinion that opinions like that are dangerous to ALL gun owners.

[Old Griz]

One of the most interesting facts that surfaced from the westward migration of wagons along the various trails heading west from St. Louis et al is that more people died and were wounded by accidents with their guns carried for protection that from all other causes put together.  These folks were more likely to have regular contact with guns than most modern folks.  

Regardless of the propaganda and posturing uness people are trained in the use of deadly force, and regularly practice those skills, they are a hazard to themselves and those around them if they try using guns for defense.  Most of the folks I speak with that surround themselves with loaded guns have no idea of how to effectively use them if they had to.

:cb2: Gee. Speaking of "propaganda"—sounds like something I'd expect to hear from a NY Senator. Either one of them.  :eek:

[Keith L]

Don't make assumptions about what I think.The most dangerous thing to all of us who appreciate guns and shooting are people who do foolish things with them.  If I thought I had to pack a gun to feel safe I would be somewhere else.  

I won't be adding to this thread any more. Nothing to be gained.

[sawebbshooter]

As for Big Paulie's comments on cowboy fantasies, I'll agree if we're talkin' gun twirling, drunkeness, yahooism of the gross kind or combos of the above. I support the right to pack but there are people with guns that I steer clear of.  Armed idjits and armed thugs being two groups on that list.  If I had the pleasure of the sane and sober sixgunner at camp, I'ld be asking about his rig, favorite load and so on.  Depends on who is fantasizing.

As far as this westward migration citation about accidental gunshots exceeding all other causes of death, I would require much convincing.  I've gone to most of the Oregun Trail sites and museums and intepretive centers and read several NONFICTION books on the subject.  The general consensus is that diseases, primarily cholera from tainted water was by far and away the greatest cause of death.

Neither myself nor an other law abiding citizen is required to take lethal force training to exersize our 2nd amendment rights.  Plenty of people have relied on basic firearm safety and common sence to deter or stop a crime.  The elitist attitude that the masses can't be trusted with firearms to defend themselves sticks in my craw.

And lastly,  if myself, my loved ones, my friends or fellow citizens are in mortal danger from critters or bad people,  I might wrestle with my tortured conscience after the shooting is over.  Or maybe not.

[RedRyder21]

I apologize for digging this thread up and ranting...

Playing cowboy? I wear a single action revolver in a leather holster on my hip while walking around my property. I keep extra bullets in my pocket. In my part of my state there are an abundance of racoons, skunks, and coyotes due to the fact nobody traps anymore. They devlop distempermet and rabies. An animal with rabies or distemperment is not to be messed with. I have seen them and shot them and there have been many official reports of them around my property. I am not going to move or quit hunting because of them... The best firearm to carry in the woods for rabied animal protection for me is a bigbore single action revolver in a leather holster.

[Coyote Hunter]

And how many folks will you hurt in the campground when you are blazing away at the bear?  My neighbor showed me his Desert Eagle 50 the other day, that he bought for protection.  He can kill people six or eight houses away with that thing.

I figure the answer in my case, and in most cases, is “Zero”.  Certainly wouldn’t want to be the bear, though, because most of the bear incidents of which I am aware, where a bear attacks armed humans resulting in shots fired, the bear dies.  Not aware of any such encounters in which stray bullets have harmed humans.

I just spent a couple weeks camping, most of it in Colorado.  Never saw a bear, never had any trouble with people.  My bet is most of us campers never need a side arm.  And had you shown up in the parks with a gun on your hip I am sure you would have been shown the gate.

So don’t buy insurance, you’re a lucky guy.  Me, I’ll buy insurance and I’ll take my camp gun camping – because stuff happens.  Not every time, but it happens all the same.

One of the most interesting facts that surfaced from the westward migration of wagons along the various trails heading west from St. Louis et al is that more people died and were wounded by accidents with their guns carried for protection that from all other causes put together.  These folks were more likely to have regular contact with guns than most modern folks.  

Don’t know where you came up with that statistic, but it I doubt that its true.  Care to cite a source?

Regardless of the propaganda and posturing uness people are trained in the use of deadly force, and regularly practice those skills, they are a hazard to themselves and those around them if they try using guns for defense.  Most of the folks I speak with that surround themselves with loaded guns have no idea of how to effectively use them if they had to.

Haven’t been trained in the use of deadly force, (although I’ve read some), and the only practice I get is at the range, at ranges up to 200 yards.  Don’t know or care what other folks do, but I do know that if needed I’d much rather grip a gun than air.

[Coyote Hunter]

...
As far as this westward migration citation about accidental gunshots exceeding all other causes of death, I would require much convincing.  I've gone to most of the Oregun Trail sites and museums and intepretive centers and read several NONFICTION books on the subject.  The general consensus is that diseases, primarily cholera from tainted water was by far and away the greatest cause of death.

Don’t you know that 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot?    I think Keith L’s statistic was an example.  I remember hearing a woman on a talk show one day.  She was spouting statistic after statistic, none of which sounded right.  Then the host came on and gave the real statistics, which were in complete disagreement with those provided by the woman.  Then the woman came to her own defense for amking up the stats – “Well, if that isn’t the way it is, its the way it SHOULD be – because that’s the way I feel about it.”  

Neither myself nor an other law abiding citizen is required to take lethal force training to exersize our 2nd amendment rights.  Plenty of people have relied on basic firearm safety and common sence to deter or stop a crime.  The elitist attitude that the masses can't be trusted with firearms to defend themselves sticks in my craw.
...

“Elitist” was exactly how I felt about his statements, too.

Never mind his flawed logic where he implies that that because he didn’t have any bear problem, NOBODY will ever have a bear problem.  Tell that to the 14 year-old boy.  Or explain to the two surviving 18 year olds that got stabbed that its really a good thing that they didn’t have a firearm because someone might have died.  Oh, wait – somebody did die and it was one of the innocents, not one of the bad guys.

[ironglow]

Some folks consider a camp gun as one that's kept around the camp to pot something for the pot or get rid of an errant snake or critter..
   Something like a 10/22 or a Marlin .22 mag would amswer that need very well.

[SETexJeff]

I know the original comment was about the Camp Gun Name

But here is my 2cents worth,
In camp I wear a 357 mag loaded with 38 special, Not to play cowboy
but thats OK also, No one mentioned one of the big problems at the edge of settled areas FERAL dumped dogs, (our camp is 25 miles from the closest incorp city but borders a major road)They are hungry, not scared of humans and as one person that lost 6 weeks of work and had lots of stiches from a large dog I take no chances. ( I am 6 ft 4 and 250 lbs so think what a large dog can do to a smaller person esp a child).

SeTexJeff

[Big Paulie]

Dear Folks,

   Well, I guess I'd better jump back in an clarify myself a little.

    My objection is to guys who show up at deer camp in the late fall or early winter, in Mississippi, Tennessee, etc. wearing a big hog leg on their hip, with a big gun belt, and every loop filled with spare rounds, who then proceed to spend the next three (3) days playing with it in camp, pulling it out, passing it around, pointing it, aiming it, talking about it, walking 25 steps outside the camp and shooting at cans, etc. etc. etc.  These guys are jerks, who are just out to wear and play with their toys.  They disrupt the entire camp, and scare the #%# out of me, because they seem to want to pull the gun from the holster and fondle it whenever they can.  This is very very common in the Mid-South.

    I have nothing against someone wearing a suitable and discreet side arm, in a holster, who damned well leaves it there the whole time.  If you checked your revolver before you left home, then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for it to come out of the holster during the entire trip, except in the event of self defense or humanely dispatching a downed animal.

   By the way, I have been to Colorado, hiking in the back country, seven times.  Five times I did see black bear, and one time (very very scarey) a pick-up truck load of rednecks passed us on a service road, and they had two ENORMOUS dogs in the back, who went into a barking and growing frenzy when they saw us, and jumped out of the back of the truck and rushed up to my wife and son crouching and barking and feinting foward in short  rushes and dodges (exactly as a dog will do when it is serious about attack.)  They both came within 6 feet  of my wife and son, and continued their frenzy.  The two rednecks just kept yelling "No, bad dogs" from the truck, and had no control whatsoever over the dogs.

   My wife and son and I stood totally still and petrified during this. I called over to them and told them not to turn their backs, and not to run or retreat, because they would be dragged down.  I also told them not to look the dogs in the eyes, but to focus on the ground immediately in front of them. My wife and son gently eased their day packs off of their shoulders, and held them out in front of themselves, against their necks and chests, to provide some sort of minimum protection from an attack.  

  After about 45 seconds, the rednecks gave up yelling, and eased their truck on down the road, and when they got about 50 yards away, the dogs ran after them to catch up.

   I love dogs, and have been around them all of my life. I am not afraid of them in the slightest, even when they are barking.  But guys, these dogs were deadly serious, vicious,  lunging, snapping and working in a team like a pack.  They seemed to regard the roadway as their own turf even though it was not on private property!!!!

  After this, I am much more concerned about large dogs, domestic and feral, than black bears.

[Coyote Hunter]

...  If you checked your revolver before you left home, then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for it to come out of the holster during the entire trip, except in the event of self defense or humanely dispatching a downed animal.

Uh, except maybe to load and unload it, as needed?

...   After this, I am much more concerned about large dogs, domestic and feral, than black bears.

Dogs, bears, lions, animals in heat or diseased or maybe just hungry, people of ill will.  All good reasons to pack iron.