Author Topic: 223 Rem Ultra Varmint! (Read 1521 times)

Buffalogun · « **on:** March 09, 2005, 01:15:21 PM »

Hi All,

Got around to running a couple handloads through my 223 Ultra Varmint that I had switched handles on(it is now wearing the Survivor stock and fore-end).

I have some of the 45g Winchesters but haven't tried them, yet.

At 50 yds., the rifle printed a 3/8" group from the Sierra 55g SPT. over 26g H4895. And, a 5/16" group from the Hornady 50g VMax over 26g Varget! These from a dirty bore!

These groups were shot with a 4X Nikon scope and I feel the groups would be tighter with a scope of more power.

Now, to vary the seating depth!

As an aside, does anyone here use the .223 Rem for turkeys? If so, what bullet?

Buffalogun

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2005, 02:24:40 PM »

Hmm, it's illegal in my home state to even think about shooting a fine game bird like a turkey with a rifle and for good reason as far as I'm concerned...but I know there are a bunch of ******* states that allow it..... :evil:

aguestnomore · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2005, 03:25:06 PM »

I've gotta agree with Quick on this one. Here in Wyoming they allow rifles during turkey season, but IMHO that's turkey shooting, not turkey hunting. It's just not the same without calling 'em in close :cry:

Most folks around here use 22 Mags for it, so I'd imagine just about any load in a .223 would put a whomp on them with good shot placement. Find the most accurate load for your rifle and go with it. Your confidence level with that load will make up any difference that a heavier bullet or a hotter load would possibly achieve.

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2005, 04:08:58 PM »

Well, aren't turkleys varmint?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2005, 04:23:07 PM »

Some places have so many of em, they consider them pests....I would love to live in a place like that, I'd be callin em and workin em when ever I could. I love turkey huntin....it's just like calling in a bull elk, just as exciting, but a hell of a lot easier to pack out!

myarmor · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2005, 05:06:49 AM »

Well I personally am not partial to taking them either way, perhaps thats unorthodox thinking but hey everyones different. I think I would rather take my 17HMR instead if I was hunting Turkey with a rifle, but the 223 would for sure do the trick. And as I have found out with mine, the Ultra 223 is a VERY capable rifle. Just make sure to practice enough with it to get used to how it handles and it will speak. That's what I am looking forward to this spring

Buffalogun · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2005, 10:54:57 AM »

quick, aguestnomore,

Go back and look at my post! I was looking for info from folks who have actual experience with this practice.

I am 51 yrs old and I don't need or want any lessons in ethics! You guys are "WAY OFF TOPIC"! I thought moderators were supposed to help keep these posts straight.

And "quick", it's good that you think Florida is a ******* state! I take that to mean that you won't be visiting our state, which is just fine, as I won't be stepping over or around you! We are already over-crowded!

Try to stay on topic, PLEASE!!!

Buffalogun :evil:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2005, 12:08:42 PM »

Since you took offense at my post, I apologize, that wasn't my intent, the ******* reference was probably uncalled for. But as far as staying on topic, the ethics of shooting turkeys with a rifle applies to the topic as much as the ethics of hunting deer with a .223 applies, although not in the same way and I'm sure a lot of others will agree as well as the 525,000 members of the NWTF. :wink:

jeff223 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2005, 01:35:19 PM »

i would think a 50 or 55gr VMAX or Nosler BT would work just fine.the bullet will enter and blowup leaving no exit wound.these bullets do alot of damage on the inside.shoot the turkey when hes walking away from you.with a little luck the bullet will blow up before it enters the breast area.if you dont care about eating the bird just shoot him center mass and im sure either the VMAX or the BT will work.some rifle men shoot turkeys with a reduced load very slow moving bullet in a 30cal of some sort.with the slow moving bullet there isnt that much damage to the meat.

i like to turkey hunt and have killed a few with a shotgun.if Michigan ever changed its law and said i could hunt with a rifle i would be the first one out there.i can picture it now :-) turkey at 250yds :wink:

Buffalogun · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2005, 02:35:28 PM »

quick,

"Uncalled for" is exactly right! You still haven't offered any kind of answer to my question. You still want to mix the two subjects together, but they are separate. Perhaps you don't know very much about taking fowl with a rifle!

So, I suggest a little reading material by Ken Waters and Townsend Whelen! Then you might have a better understanding about the subject.

Perhaps you do things the way the masses do things(safety in numbers?), and if it works for you, hurrah!

I like to make up my own mind and it matters exactly"ZIP", as to what 525,000 members of the NWTF think! Savvy?

Jeff, this is the kind of info I was looking for. I can and have safely prepared reduced loads for my deer rifles using both cast and jacketed bullets. There is also the idea of loading a bullet backwards in the case.

BUT, I have this neat little .223 Rem and I've seen a coyote in the area! I was thinking of the Sierra SPT or Hornady VMax that shoot so well in my rifle. I wanted to hear from others about the results of body shots on turkeys. I have very little experience on the destruction created by using .223 varmint bullets on game as large as turkeys. I know where the turkey's engine room is and won't have a problem putting the bullet there.

I guess I'll go for the engine room with one of the above bullets and see for myself.

Thanks Jeff,
Buffalogun

iisabigone · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2005, 05:25:00 AM »

Hey Buff here in Virginia we can hunt turkeys with a rifle and I have killed quite a few and have seen literly truckloads blew up with varmint loads and deer loads from various calibers with body shots.

I try to head shoot them or neck shoot them when they are standing upright looking at or for me. However, I have had good luck in taking birds without ruining the bird with a spine shot. It works best when the bird is feeding broadside. Aiming point is at and behind the wingbut all the way to the tail butt.

I feel anyone is wasting a valuable resource with a full blown center body shot with any deer or varmint load.

If I cant get the head, neck or spine shot I will let him live until another day.

mattparliament · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2005, 05:37:35 AM »

Hey there, I use a 55 gr soft point in front of 25 gr of IMR 3031. Used to use a v-max with success thought placement is key. With a soft point there is less damage. Shoot them in the back right where the wings attach to the body. Good luck! I love the 223 for turkey!

Buffalogun · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2005, 10:02:37 AM »

Thanks for the info, guys! I have been considering the "profile" shot. Just behind the wing, so as to take out the lungs, etc.

Would it help to drop the velocity of these varmint bullets any?

Thanks,
Buffalogun

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2005, 12:31:37 PM »

Quote from: Buffalogun

quick, aguestnomore,

Go back and look at my post! I was looking for info from folks who have actual experience with this practice.

I am 51 yrs old and I don't need or want any lessons in ethics! You guys are "WAY OFF TOPIC"! I thought moderators were supposed to help keep these posts straight.

And "quick", it's good that you think Florida is a ******* state! I take that to mean that you won't be visiting our state, which is just fine, as I won't be stepping over or around you! We are already over-crowded!

Try to stay on topic, PLEASE!!!

Buffalogun :evil:

First...let me say...if you want an answer and no other comments...don't ask it...this is a open forum...and just because you don't like the response...or what other folks feel is ethical...that's really too bad...this site isn't limited to 1 gerographic location...and what may be ethical to you isn't to a-lot of other folks...

Second...if someone apologizes... be man enough to accept it and move on...we don't really need anyone holding grudges

Finnally....as far as what the moderators jobs are...it's evident... we know far better than you... what were are supposed to do...

Mac

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2005, 01:07:08 AM »

I couldn't have said it better Mac. :toast:

Buffalogun · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2005, 01:47:38 AM »

Mac,

All I wanted were replies from folks who hunt turkeys with the .223 Rem. That is all I asked!
I never asked whether anyone thought it was ethical or not.

Neither you nor any other moderator or poster on this board has any business telling anyone else what is ethical or not, UNLESS SOMEONE ASKS FOR YOUR OPINION!!!!!

So, if you guys want to stick your noses in where it doesn't belong, then expect to get some negative replies!

And, his apology was only partial!

Buffalogun

poncaguy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2005, 03:47:02 AM »

Oklahoma allows the 17HMR for turkey.......

MSP Ret · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2005, 04:30:00 AM »

Mac (and quick & guestnomore also), I agree with your response completely and think you and the other moderators do a great job in keeping this site the best around. Your apology was offered like a man but seemed to be ignored. Some here may not want to hear anyone disagree with them or to even hear any suggestion of ethics, but without ethics we are all doomed, while with ethics we would not need most laws on the books. Ethics are VERY important. I personally feel those that rankle and recoil at the very mention of the word do have some sort of a problem with them. Keep up the good work Mac, your doing great job and I thank you for it, GB could double your pay and you would still be underpaid

....<><.... :grin:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2005, 05:14:10 AM »

Well said, Mac and MSP, thanks. :wink:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:02:40 AM »

Quote

All I wanted were replies from folks who hunt turkeys with the .223 Rem. That is all I asked!
I never asked whether anyone thought it was ethical or not.

Again...this is an open forum..anyone can offer a comment...on any subject

Quote

Neither you nor any other moderator or poster on this board has any business telling anyone else what is ethical or not, UNLESS SOMEONE ASKS FOR YOUR OPINION!!!!!

This is where you are wrong my friend......and it doesn't matter if I'm a moderator or not...I can...just as anyone else can...offer an opinion...and what may or may not be ethical...or legal...in your local...has a bearing on what I may or maynot feel is ethical...and again ...since this forum is utilized by many different people...in many different countries around the world... You are the one who needs to realize this fact...

Quote

So, if you guys want to stick your noses in where it doesn't belong, then expect to get some negative replies!

Another fine example of where you don't know what my job here is...and where you are dead wrong......I can and will intervene when I feel it is needed...and that is something YOU have absolutely no control over...

Quote

And, his apology was only partial!

It should have been enough for you to accept it...and move on...but unfortunately...you don't really understand quite a few things about forum protocol....and why I'm taking the time to try to fill you in...

If you post a question on a forum... you can expect many different replies...some you may like...others you may not...if you don't want a-lot of different comments...then perhaps you shouldn't throw it out for all to comment on it...this forum does have the means to talk directly to each individual forum member...and you are free to PM anyone here and ask questions...if you still wish to post a question...then you cannot get upset when others post to it and you don't get the answers you wanted......

Many times a thread will change directions from the origanal posters intent...sometimes with the origanal posters comments and allowing it to...sometimes they will take a turn for the worst too...and we as moderators will step in and do what's needed..or the upper management will......we all try to get along...and keep things running smoothly...and if we err in our postings or comments...we apologize...just as Quickdtoo did...while it may not be as good an apology as you had hoped for...it was offered never-the-less...and that should have been enough...

Mac

Buffalogun · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:44:16 AM »

Mac,

You won't intervene in any more of my posts!!!

Graybeard, remove my profile and membership from this forum, PRONTO!!!

Oh and Mac, you should work on your spelling! Moderators really should be literate to an acceptable degree!!!

Buffalogun

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:55:00 AM »

Quote from: Buffalogun

Mac,

You won't intervene in any more of my posts!!!

Graybeard, remove my profile and membership from this forum, PRONTO!!!

Oh and Mac, you should work on your spelling! Moderators really should be literate to an acceptable degree!!!

Buffalogun

I'm truly sorry you can't accept the way things are...and that you feel the way you do...good luck where ever you decide to go... and you are correct...I should have used the spell checker on my last post...so thank you for pointing that out...

Mac

tom barthel · « **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:36:28 AM »

THANK YOU MAC
I watched helpless as the H&R forum selfdestructed and descended into a lot of personal insults. I don't pretend to know all the reasons for shutting it down. I had already started looking for another forum. Still, it saddens me to see someone go off the deep end. I regret the gentleman's departure. I do hope he finds whatever he may be searching for. The decision to leave is HIS. So be it. He has not requested it, but I will pray for him. I welcome all the assistance offered on this forum. If I decide to disregard the tips, then, it's on me.

Thanks again for doing your job and GOD bless you and yours.

Tom :cry:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2005, 10:23:20 AM »

Welcome aboard, Tom!

Sorry to have caused such a stir here, this isn't usual in this forum. Glad you stepped in to say hi and hope you visit often, this is a great bunch here, you'll fit right in with em!

Buffalogun, I'm sorry I ruffled your feathers, didn't mean to, and hope you'll reconsider your choice to leave, you've contributed your share to the GBO boards and I dont' like to see you leave, or anyone else for that matter..... :wink:

aguestnomore · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2005, 04:24:10 PM »

I haven't clicked back on this thread for a while, so I'm a little late with this.

Buffalogun...wasn't trying to sway your thinking or sell my version of ethics. I just read what Quick had said and agreed. I also tried to relay what knowledge I had on the subject even though it was limited and wasn't from personal experience. It wasn't meant as a personal attack.

Ditto on Quick's thoughts...I'd hate to see you or anyone leave.

handirifle · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2005, 05:05:01 PM »

Guys
I've read this whole thing and see little, if any, to apologize for. He sounds like a hot head and if he removed himself, it's his loss.

I say keep up the good work. Apparently free speech only applies to those that say whatever agrees with what you say.

Buffalo, if you're still here or monitoring, there was NEVER anyone that cut you down just opinions offered. I don't always like everything that gets said to me but each has his own reasons and preferences. Chill out a bit. Beside nothing personal was EVER directed at you.

As long as game is taken fair and ethically, I don't care if someone chooses to hunt Brown Bear with a 22 LR, I just don't want to be there when he pulls the trigger. :eek:

Graybeard · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2005, 06:47:46 PM »

To each his own of course. But I've never understood why anyone would want to pot a standing bird with a shotgun and then brag about the feat. I quit hunting them in Bama when they out lawed rifles for use on them. I didn't start back until they made the use of handguns without scopes legal for them. I've never shot a turkey with a shotgun. Can't see any reason why I'd want to. I love wing shooting and it is one of my favorite passtimes but shooting a bird standing still as a statue with a shotgun? Sorry not for me.

Some say they like the challenge of calling them in close. Could be. But I notice many of those try to pot them at 40-50 yards and still others actually pay someone to call them in for them to shoot with a shotgun and then think they've hunted. Perhaps but I'd not feel that way.

I prefer to stalk them or ambush them and must prefer it in the fall when and where legal. Now you stalk within handgun range of a turkey while wearing the blaze orange required in deer season of fall and that is my idea of having hunted.

I would use rifles when and where legal and think I was being far more ethical than potting a standing bird with a shotgun. Now that to me is not ethical. Like I said, to each their own.

mattparliament · « **Reply #27 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:05:47 PM »

what a great forum, so many people from all over the country, all with different aspects and views on how hunting gets "done" within our given terrain. Personally, I live in a state where shotgun or rifle is legal and I've done both. One from a 10 guage partner at 20 yards, one from a 223 at 364 paces from a very very confident 223. I can't decide which one is more rewarding but I do know that they were both an amazing experience and both done right. Let's all do it right and respect each other's passions about how it gets done.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:13:28 PM »

Quote from: tom barthel

THANK YOU MAC
I watched helpless as the H&R forum selfdestructed and descended into a lot of personal insults. I don't pretend to know all the reasons for shutting it down. I had already started looking for another forum. Still, it saddens me to see someone go off the deep end. I regret the gentleman's departure. I do hope he finds whatever he may be searching for. The decision to leave is HIS. So be it. He has not requested it, but I will pray for him. I welcome all the assistance offered on this forum. If I decide to disregard the tips, then, it's on me.

Thanks again for doing your job and GOD bless you and yours.

Tom :cry:

Thanks Tom...and all the rest...I try my best to stay impartial...and only intervene when necessary..and even then I know it's bound to erk someone when I do...as to the topic of the thread...it is amazing at the cultural differences that are presented on this forum.... while I have never taken a turkey with a rifle...I do know others have and will continue to do so...it's funny...I was taught to shoot birds with a bead sited shotgun.. and never off a roost.. and never with a rifle...yet I have seen and talked to many who feel far different on the issue...is it legal to do so??? Yes...in many places it is...is it ethical...maybe to the person pulling the trigger...but perhaps not ethical to many other people....This is the situation that a few here like Buffalogun...fail to realize.....and when confronted with this...they would rather become sarcastic,and angry,and then leave,even when apologies have been issued...

Our jobs as moderators isn't always easy...and there are times I would just like to be just as rude and nasty as some have been to me...but I can't and won't do that...because I know that wouldn't be the proper thing to do...I can't help it if there are some that have authority issues or other problems following the rules...and these are the ones who seem to walk around carrying a chip on their shoulders...waiting for someone to knock it off...and when that happens here...someones feelings is bound to get hurt... and I'm sorry Buffalogun's did.... but I won't be told by someone to butt out and mind my own buisness... as moderator here...this forum is my buisness...and will continue to be...until such time as managment sees fit...or until I wish to volunteraly step down....

GBO is a great forum...and I aim to help keep it that way..whether a few like it or not...and choose to leave on their own...or...with the Upper Managements help...that aspect of it is out of my hands...I would only wish for us all to get along... accept what apologies were offered.....and move on to better things...

Mac

snowman485 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 16, 2005, 02:22:10 AM »

:agree: