Author Topic: More on the Border War... (Read 7462 times)

FWiedner · « **on:** March 10, 2005, 03:09:43 AM »

FBI Warns of 'Special Interest' Aliens

WASHINGTON - FBI Director Robert Mueller told Congress on Tuesday that people from countries with ties to al-Qaida have crossed into the United States from Mexico, using false identities.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/8/214617.shtml

and

Ex-Agents: Turf Battles Undermining Border Security

WASHINGTON -- Turf battles, jealousies and competition are keeping two immigration and border security agencies in the Homeland Security Department from sharing intelligence and coordinating investigations, former agents said Wednesday.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/9/162103.shtml

*Note: While Mr. Bush is securing his friend's and family's oil interests, our nation is being invaded...

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Robert · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2005, 05:26:35 AM »

Quote

*Note: While Mr. Bush is securing his friend's and family's oil interests, our nation is being invaded...

Is this your opinion or an excerpt from the threads that you posted? Just curious.

FWiedner · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2005, 05:59:25 AM »

Quote from: Robert

Quote
*Note: While Mr. Bush is securing his friend's and family's oil interests, our nation is being invaded...

Is this your opinion or an excerpt from the threads that you posted? Just curious.

My observation, Robert. :shock:

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Robert · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2005, 07:05:37 AM »

Sounds pretty Liberal to me. While I agree, the border is a sore issue, I think personal attacks on out President and Commander and Chief of our armed forces are uncalled for. However...our troops are fighting to keep you free, and you are entitled to your opinion. I am also entitled to my opinion, and I think that was a 'cheap shot' on your part. If everyone thinks I am wrong, or if there is something I am not understanding.. please let me know.

FWiedner · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2005, 09:15:48 AM »

Quote from: Robert

Sounds pretty Liberal to me. While I agree, the border is a sore issue, I think personal attacks on out President and Commander and Chief of our armed forces are uncalled for. However...our troops are fighting to keep you free, and you are entitled to your opinion. I am also entitled to my opinion, and I think that was a 'cheap shot' on your part. If everyone thinks I am wrong, or if there is something I am not understanding.. please let me know.

How does one take a "cheap shot" at a public figure with regard to his actions while in office and with regard to his use of the U.S. military and treasury funds?

What about that qualifies as a "personal' attack?

It is a responsibility of citizenship to question and be critical of government, it's officals, and it's operatives.

You want something that better qualifies as opinion or as a personal attack?

The man has become insane, and is drunk on power.

He fiddles, while Rome burns.

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Robert · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2005, 02:38:08 PM »

So, you guys are saying you would prefer Fred Flintstone (Gore) or Commie Kerry for the job or what? An ounce of support and encouragement is a lot more usefull than tearing down our government. I don't think Bush is perfect..but I do beleive he sincerely WANTS to do the right thing. If you aint helping.....you are just another burden. Just my opinion.

FWiedner · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2005, 03:18:22 PM »

:?

So..., those People who point out that this government is failing miserably in it's most basic military duty to protect our borders rather than those of any given foreign land, are a burden?

He "wants" to do the right thing... It's OK for him to crap on the Constitution as long as he "means well." I guess I hadn't thought of it that way before.

Seems that you're ignoring the fox in the hen-house.

Oh wait...YOU PUT HIM IN THERE! :eek:

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Nightrain52 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2005, 04:50:22 PM »

We, as a nation are going to have to learn that to most countries anymore WE ARE THE ENEMY. The only thing that makes us welcome anywhere is our money. Tell them we will not give them more economic aid and see what happens. Tell them we are going to stop all tourists from going abroad and see what happens. I would have thought when any president declares war the first thing to do is lock your borders so the enemy can't just walk in. I am sure at this minute there are terrorist cells already within our borders and more coming in all the time. One way or the other it is going to have to stop. Homeland Security and The Patriot Act are sadly lacking in a lot of things that should be done. There are so many things that need to be addressed but Congress and the President don't seem to be able to take the bull by the horns and act. RANT OVER :shock:

Robert · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2005, 05:29:14 PM »

Night train, I couldn't agree with you more. I have thought about the consequences of shutting down imports because of the threat from container shipping....but....I am a novice at best in politics and business. (If there is a difference) I do not understand the problems from doing this....I would think that WallMart would suffer and US businesses would profit.....but I think there is a little more involved. Ok...let's try this...
If anybody has the correct answer how to run everything perfectly, not make mistakes, not create opposition, never have any regrets ....Please write to G.W. He might like to hear the plan....Feel free to continue your Rant. It worked for me.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2005, 04:49:14 PM »

I don't have the answers either. We have lost so much of our manufacturing base we can't even produce the things we need and have to have here in the States. We can't even produce enuogh ammo here for the M-16. You would think the US government would approach Remington, Winchester, Federal, or other ammo makers here at home to produce small arms ammo. We dropped the 1911-45 in favor of a foreign service pistol and now they have decided the 9mm doesn't have the stopping power of the 45, meanwhile the Colt company is on the verge of bankruptcy. Refridgerators, stoves, TVs, and all electronics are made in other countries. We can't even feed ourselves anymore without foreign imports. The days of a man going out and making a decent living to support his family are about gone. There is no such thing as seniority on the job anymore, most people feel lucky too just have a job. Who's going to stop it. When is it going to end. Until we send some leaders to Washington that are willing to make drastic changes things are only going to get worse. We are going to have to look past the Democrats and Republicans and put some new faces in the government even if it is an Independent party. I fully support our troops and brave young men and women that put their lives on the line in the name of freedom. I can only hope that some of our leaders will wake up and say things are going to have to go in a different direction before it is too late.

Mauser · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2005, 11:53:27 AM »

Unless Bush tightens up the Mexican border I have to conclude he is not serious about the "war on terror" and has another agenda other than protecting us from terrorism. The Republican candidtate for president deserves to lose in '08 if he is not strongly against illegal immigration and a seive-like border with Mexico. I know I won't vote for him if he is not. This issue is probably the most important one for the future of this country and Bush is just plain wrong on it.

As long as we are going to destroy the country with letting millions of illegals and thousands of terrorists in from Mexico I'd just as soon let the Democrats be responsible for it.

Robert · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2005, 02:56:36 PM »

Well..I hate to say this....I certainly do not want terrorists coming in...but most of those illegals...like it or not..are putting a big percentage of the food on your table. I was just talking to my fiancee about this. We figure....of all the farm workers West of the Mississippi..1% are probably Gringos. The other 99% are Mexican. Maybe 10% of those are legal immigrants...probably closer to 5%..this is a guess. So....If you are really serious about this....then you better start a Boycott on all fruit, vegatables, legumes..and some grain. Not ALL grain, cause a lot of 'good ol boys' work the combines. You can't get LAZY AMERICANS to work as hard as these people do...it is usually paid by the basket, or bin full of fruit or veggies...and I have tried it....no way I could even get close to the work the mexicans put out...SO...it is a sore situation...but a neccessary evil...Just like G.W. That's just the way it is.

Mauser · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2005, 09:15:19 PM »

Well OK then, if we are going to starve if we don't bring in millions of Mexicans every year (which I doubt by the way, labor being a commodity ie: we'll find a way) then lets bring them in LEGALLY and close the border. Tell Mexico to organize their cash-cow emigrants and make the normal applications or we end it altogether. They'll do it, they have no choice.

Either we are in a WAR (GWB's word, not mine) against terror or we are not. If we are, then the border needs to be closed as it is a disaster waiting to happen. If we are going to spend hundreds of billions a year, trample the Constitution with respect to civil liberties, involve ourselves in the affairs of dozens of countries, and then not even control our own borders, then I say there is something else driving the "war against terror."

Mauser · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2005, 09:34:25 PM »

Also, I wonder if anyone has calculated the cost of bringing in millions of folks annually who seem to have little interest in assimilating (they are not here to become Americans which is why immigrants have historically come here). Cheap food might be the least of our problems. We have lost California politically to the Socialists. Gov. Terminator (who is a Republican in name only) is not indicative of the political climate there. There are surprisingly mainstream Hispanic groups who are actually calling for the southwest USA to go back to Mexico. What does it cost us just to have a dual-language society? How well do those work long-term? How about crime, schools, courts, street signs, taxes, terrorism, etc, etc, etc? All this is for cheaper fruit and nannies for the rich?

Just more food for thought, maybe it's worth it. I don't know.

Robert · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2005, 05:37:04 AM »

I agree..something should be done but WHAT? Unless we build a wall from eastern Texas to the Pacific...not much would work except maybe making Mexico a US State..then we could set up a border patrol down near Guatemala where Mexico is only a little over 200 miles wide, and patrol the coastline. There have been people saying to give the southwest back to Mexico since Santa Ana and the Alamo....they can have southern Cal as far as I am concerned....but I seriously doubt if they would want it unless they could effectively round-up all the trouble making Democrats.

lostone1413 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2005, 04:17:57 AM »

See GWB is meeting with Fox in TX next week. Wonder how he is going to sell out America this time? When he sees nothing wrong with the open borders you can bet the war in Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism. Any LEO i've ever talked to in AZ has told me at least 50% of the people they arrest are Illegals. I voted for GWB but the way he is doing I rate him with LBJ. Anyone really believe GWB is a conservative? LOL

lostone1413 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2005, 07:09:36 AM »

About the same in AZ TM7. Wife works in ER over 50% of the ones coming in can barely speak English. Care to guess who pays that bill anyone?

Mauser · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2005, 10:51:05 AM »

I voted for GWB too but only because I realized that the things I don't like about him would be even worse under Kerry. For the life of me I can't understand how GWB thinks keeping the border more or less open is an acceptable situation.

Robert · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2005, 12:36:08 PM »

TM7, I like how you think. I agree with everything here but the G.W. Bashing. It IS a problem. But...DO WHAT? What should Bush do? I am all ears. Realistically.....what can you think of that will really work to fix the problems. (besides picking on Bush) Nobody else has ever fixed it either.

lostone1413 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2005, 02:22:46 PM »

For starters they could put up an a fence they could have the military patrol the border. They could fine business that hire Illegals. GWB in pushing his Guest Worker program has done more to encourage illegals to come over the border then any president I can think of It could be stopped but the goverment isn't of the people and by the people anymore. When the threat of 3 to 4 million a year just walking into the country isn't a threat to us after 911 anyone really believe homeland security has anything about us being safe?? When not if we have the next 911 how will history remember GWB? The man who could of stopped it but wouldn't

mrlizzzard · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2005, 02:10:28 AM »

I don't like Bush bashing either,the problems with this regime deserve much more than that.
lizzzard

lostone1413 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2005, 02:59:08 AM »

I voted for GWB twice myself. This last election I voted for him not because he was so good but because Kerry was that bad. Their is a big difference.

williamlayton · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2005, 03:07:14 AM »

Well now, the point of the problem is MEXICO not the illegals, they (illegals) are the tip of the iceberg.
We are so very concerned with the state of political health, human rights in other countries that we cannot see the forest for the trees. Other countries, since WWII, have made tremendous economic and social comebacks--with the exception of the middle east and Mexico, less in Mexico than the middle east.
The society in the middle east being what it is and their culture demanding the status quo be what it is (as far as what we define as social progress) they have maintained a more progressive stance than Mexico.
Mexico is an old feudal system--the only ones happy with it are the rich--the rest of their society is lacking what we would call basic human rights.
Yet we have not looked south to assert our will upon this land.
OLD RIP an me wanted to do sumthin about that but was denied.
Mexico has lots of potential and the PEOPLE are able but the political climate is very stifling. I can't blame the folks for trying to get out from under it.
The amazing part is that they have defied revolution when others have not.
Blessings

lostone1413 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2005, 04:03:48 AM »

The trouble is after enough come over here They will pull us down to being a third world nation.

williamlayton · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2005, 02:26:05 AM »

"THEY" are not lazy, unmotivated or illiterate. "THEY" are folks that are trying to make it. "THEY" are being forced out of their country of origin in order to survive.
Yes they work for less here, they do not have means for making it in their country, read, "no opportunities".
I know a number of these folks who are well educated but because of the political climate, economic climate in Mexico find it necessary to move here to support their families.
One family I know, both husband and wife have degrees in denistry from accredited universities in Mexico, however; they have chosen this country even though they are prohibited from practicing in this country. The wife works as an assistant to a dentist for less than "good" wages. Good deal for her employer.
The husband worked construction for Brown & Root for a number of years until injured. He has since entered into the school system on a program allowing him to teach while earning accreditation. Good deal for our school system.
Not all are hoods, drug dealers, lazy or illiterate--just mostly trying to survive.
Blessings

lostone1413 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2005, 05:51:56 AM »

Bet you won't talk to a LEO in AZ who won't tell you that is 50% of the arrest they make. Wife works in ER most can't even speak English and care less about learning. Maybe TX has a different breed then AZ coming over. Oh well your more then welcome to take our illegals to TX

fe352v8 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2005, 08:43:01 AM »

About 400 years ago a group of people in an oversized canoe ran into a rock on the shore, and settled on that shore. The people already living there noticed these people did not speak their language , were not integrating themselves into the community, and acted like their view was the only view. After awhile they noticed these newcomers did not know how to farm, or hunt and were starving. They took pity on the new comers and taught them how to farm and live in the new land. Well the newcomers prospered, and the people who helped them they went down hill seems the newcomers, stole from them, did not integrate into society or learn the language. I guess what goes around comes around.

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Mauser · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2005, 10:25:08 AM »

There is no comparison between the settlement of the New World and the current Mexican invasion of the US and very little comparison between said invasion and the immigration to the US in the 19th and early 20th centuries. But I love the phrase "what goes around comes around" as it is instructive as to one's level of affection for America and American/Western culture. You see, Americans do not belong here and the fact that they are is evil as is the rest of the Western heritage.

I guess the argument is that because we stole America from it's rightful owners, the Indians, it's OK that the Mexicans are going to steal it from us.

Listening to those who will defend the circumstances that allow the US to become like Yugoslavia, though tragic for mankind, will at least be entertaining.

fe352v8 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2005, 10:30:20 AM »

It is demographics, those of northern europen decsent have a lower birth rate than others currently coming to this country, check out the ethnic demographics of California, over the last twenty years. What we see and view as America and Americans will be as different to us in 200 years as it would be to the Native Americans who met the Mayflower. That is just the way of civilizations. The start, they grow, they change. Whether it is external or internal forces, change is inevitable. Dependent on which side of the curve one is on, the change can be good or bad.

life is no joke but funny things happan

jon

Leverdude · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2005, 11:33:38 AM »

They come here cuz they can & because they are industrious & hardworking. The ones I know anyway. I know alot of people that live real close to work that cant find any, but a guy can sneak across the border, make his way across a forien land without speaking the language & find a job here. Makes you wonder about Americans more than Mexicans.

That said if we just patrolled our borders & shot them when they invaded it would stem the tide for sure.

A fellow I used to work with came in thru Mexico & he said they just wait across the border for the American border patrol to eat lunch, at which point they can just come across. He said it was alot easier than crawling thru a pipe like he used to do. This guy was shocked when I told him I thought they should shoot at illegal immagrants when they cross the border. Thats what he said the Mexicans would do tho.

Its only tough because our present Gov't spends way too much time worrying about other peoples problems & not enuff about ours.

I say close ALL the borders & let the American people have THEIR country back with all rights restored as they were meant to be.