Author Topic: 450 vs 45/70  (Read 918 times)

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Offline bajabill

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450 vs 45/70
« on: March 10, 2005, 04:04:07 AM »
Are the actions of the Marlin Lever guns the same for the 450 marlin and the 45/70.  Because often the 45/70 load data for high pressure is for the ruger #1, and there are mid loads for the lever guns.  Isnt the 450 a high pressure loading, more similar to many "high" pressure 45/70 load data?

Offline Dr. A

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450 vs 45/70
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 10:30:24 AM »
The actions for both Marlins are the same.  Some of the Marlins used for higher pressure, ie. 375, 444 have different barrel threads where the barrel ties into the receiver.  Some are square and some are v-shaped.  One is more for higher pressure supposedly than another.  Don't ask me which one is the higher pressure, because I can't remember.  The 450 is rated to 43,500PSI and the 45-70 to 40,000CUP loads which are about the same thing.  One is the older measurement, of course.  Loads for the 45-70 are confusing indeed.  Some trapdoor loads are limited to 28000 cup, ( which is SAMMI), and which Marlin recommends.  Some are rated to 35,000, which I believe Speer does, some like Hodgden will include 40000 and 50000.  The 50000 is a load meant only for the  toughest 45-70's, namely the Ruger #1 #3, and Siamese Mausers.  You will get more velocity from a Ruger #1 than from a 450 because of the pressures involved and the limits of the gun.  The two Marlins (45-70 and 450) are virtual ballistic equivalents.  I don't believe the barrel threads do too much myself.  Most plinking I do is with pressures in the 18000 to 30000 range.  My hunting load closes in on 40000.  I own a Ruger #1, and see no reason to load it too its full potential.  Recoil in that little rifle is severe, and I am satisfied with 40000 cup loads.

Offline jaycocreek

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450 vs 45/70
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2005, 10:54:38 AM »
The SAAMI pressure for the .450 Marlin is 43,500 PSI and the #2 loads through Hodgdons #27 for the 45-70 is 40,000 CUP.Broken down 40,000 CUP is about 42,740 PSI.Yikes...There all but the same but the 45-70 will hold a slight velocity advantage over the .450 Marlin when loaded with the same powder and bullet(Rick Jaimeson).

Slight edge for the 45-70 and PSI and CUP are not the same but very close at these mild pressures where in the .454 Casull the SAAMI is 65,000 PSI and Hodgdons #27 data in CUP goes only to 55,000 CUP?

Good luck....Jayco
I didn''t do it and whoever said I did is lieing!!

Offline Dr. A

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450 vs 45/70
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2005, 11:13:36 AM »
I stand corrected, thanks Jayco.  Just reading a little in the archives from a year ago with Jackfish, Coyote, and yourself along with dla....

Offline bajabill

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450 vs 45/70
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2005, 06:42:53 PM »
Thanks,  Ive just been digging into the load data and it seems that the 450 is often shown with data for higher velocities than the lever action 45-70.  Taking most of this data literally can be mind boggling but for the 45-70 it is even more convoluted.  For the most part, every individual data source is a test report, and the many different tests show the scatter in the data.  I have a HR Buffalo Classic and will treat it as a Marlin for load data.  When you factor in the Buffalo Bore ammo performance, it really shows the conservatism in much of the load data available.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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450 vs 45/70
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2005, 04:46:44 AM »
Interestingly, I looked up the part number for the receivers for various Marlin 336 derivatives.  The part "407690B" is used for the receiver in the .30-30, .35, .44 (I assume .444?), .307 .356 and .375.

Pressures of these cartridges vary widely.

35,000 CUP -- .35 Rem
38,000 CUP -- .30-30
44,000 CUP -- .444 Marlin
52,000 CUP -- .307Win, .356Win, .375Win
Coyote Hunter
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