Author Topic: What's the better youth Handi-Rifle? .243 or 7mm-08? (Read 2010 times)

biglmbass · « **on:** March 10, 2005, 06:11:10 AM »

What's the better caliber for a youth gun? Will the 7-08 recoil much greater than the .243?

I'm looking at getting my son a youth model Handi-Rifle for his birthday. I have no experience w/ the H&R Handi Rifle, but have read/heard good things about them. I'm primarily interested in equipping my child for the youth day of deer hunting that Alabama now has each year. He'll be nine years old on March 19th. I realize that whatever I choose, he will most likely have to grow into. He's been around firearms for sometime now and has fired my full size .22 rifle many times. At this point in time I'm leaning towards the 7mm-08 simply because I think its the better deer caliber. FWIW, my son is 64# and stands 51" tall.

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in advance

mag41vance · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2005, 06:29:17 AM »

The .243 is a fine Deer gun in the hands of a good marksman. The 7mm-08 I would think would be a better choice for a green hunter.

Don't rule out the .30-30. More deer have been taken with that old cartridge than any other. The .30-30 doesn't have the down range concerns that a Higher powered rifle does in the hands of a nine year old.

On big game, bullet placement is more critical with the varmint class rifle.

biglmbass · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2005, 06:33:52 AM »

The more I read/research in this forum & others regarding youth guns, I'm thinking the .243 may be the way to go. I just cringe at the thought of tracking wounded deer all over the back 40 and beyond.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2005, 06:36:46 AM »

Here's a recoil table to give you an idea of what to expect of the 2.....I haven't shot a 7mm-08, but I would recommend that if you choose that route, add a good recoil pad like the Limbsaver, that will go a long way towards making the heavier recoil of the 7mm-08 comfortable for the lad. You could also add a bit of weight to the stock if it doesn't already have the weight bar in it.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

biglmbass · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2005, 06:53:44 AM »

I was just looking at that chart. You had posted the link in an earlier thread that I was reading. Thanks.

If the gun smacks him too hard from the first shot, I'm afraid he'll never want to fire it again. I know him too well.

The more I read, the more it just muddies the water, so-to-speak.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2005, 07:00:58 AM »

The .243 would be ideal with its lower recoil, premium bullets would be mandatory with it for deer and if he gets to shooting it good, could work out well with proper training and lots of practice. Perhaps lots of practice with less costly bullet then have him sight in with the good hunting bullets and he'd be all set. Lot's of time before deer season.... :wink:

biglmbass · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2005, 07:10:51 AM »

I hadn't thought of lightweight practice ammo. The .243 w/ varmint weight ammo surely won't kick too bad. Dunno, I have zero experience w/ either the 7mm or the .243. Have to give this some more thought. I do thank you for the ideas and info/advice.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2005, 07:11:01 AM »

Whichever centerfire cartridge you wind up getting him...and in addition to the Limbsaver recoil pad...I urge you to put a shell holder...either the elastic ones...or the newer neopreane ones on the butt stock with a little padding under it...it makes it much more comfortable to shoot and removes all the cheek slap out of it...and for a youngster...this is important...it allows them to keep their cheeks firmly planted on the stock without their fear of getting hurt...and it will help to keep them from flinching anticipating the shot...

Mac

MSP Ret · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2005, 08:07:50 AM »

a 7mm-08 or 30-30 would serve him better than the .243 as a beginning hunter/shooter. Good advice about a good recoil pad and if hunting from a blind or shooting from a bench, weight the stock to add weight to the gun, more weight means less felt recoil, and an easy thing to do or undo withn just a screwdriver. Either gun would do just great but if it was the only gun he was going to have for a while I say go for the 7mm-08. With it properly loaded he could hunt just about anything he wanted to in the lower 48...It's a gun he could have forever and use for everything, varmits to Moose with proper ammo and good shooting. If you or he decided to get into reloading at some point in time it would be ideal. A cheap Lee Loader for about $15.00 plus bullets, primers and powder and your on your way to a lifetime of enjoyment....<><.... :grin:

257man · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2005, 08:59:48 AM »

Biglmbass,

This is just my .02 but I too started my son deer hunting a few years ago. Ibought him a youth .223 knowing that we would limit our shots to short ranges and only ideal shots. we shot all summer and before season started i found that he would rather shoot my 7x57 handi with his youth stock on it than his own .223. In his own words,"it hurt less and jumped less". I attributed this to the weight difference and since we hunt from a blind there was no need for a superlight carrying rifle so he shot the 7x57. He has in the last 4 seasons harvested 6 whitetails and 4 hogs with this set-up,at ranges between 80 and 165 yards, all one shot kills and none traveled more than 10 feet,most falling in their tracks.

Being that the 7mm-08 is a ballistic twin of the 7x57 and has yielded wonderful results for myself and countless others, if I were doing it all again today I would not hesitate to order the regular handi in 7mm-08 and also a seperate youth buttstock. When he outgrows the youth stock, I would simply switch back. With the weight of the gun working in your favor, recoil should be very manageable based on the recoil of my son's 7x57.
Good Luck hunting with your son and I am sure with the advice of all the knowledgeable guys on this forum you will make the perfect choice for a rifle. I know I have learned a bunch just listening in.

glock29 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2005, 09:02:02 AM »

I would go with either the 7-08 or with a 308 with some of the new "reduced recoil" loadings offered by Remington.
The 7-08 has more recoil than a 243, but it is not much recoil.
The 243 is more of an "expert's" deer cartridge requiring much more exacting bullet placement to quickly dispatch a deer....being a youung hunter it may be very difficult not to exhibit "buck fever" and picking shots VERY carefully which is required with the small cartridges such as a 243.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2005, 09:28:20 AM »

Hey 257man, how in the heck did you sneak in without a big welcome!!!

, Welcome aboard 257man!!! (or did I do this before?). Anyway, that was a very thoughtful, insightful and knowledgeable recommendation you made in your above post. You should post here more often. Logical responses like that, based on first hand experience is the information that makes this place so great. Consider this a personal invitation to visit and post more often!!!....<><.... :grin:

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2005, 10:15:21 AM »

biglmbass
I too started my twin son's out on Handi 223's. They were (kinda still are) skinny fellows and a bit recoil shy. I first tried them with my Savage 243 and they were NOT happy campers. I went with the 223 instead when I ordered the Handi's for them. Next season I ordered 30-30 barrel and felt much better for the choice.

If I were buying a bolt rifle it might be different, but if it were me again, I'd go the 30-30 first off. Recoil is milder than either of the 08 based rounds and at the ranges he will shoot, it will be as or more effective. Within 100-150 yards the 30-30 is a very effective round. As he gets older and a better shot, going after longer shots, move up with another barrel of your choice. That 150gr load is as or more effective than the "reduced recoil" loads and I'd bet a bit more accurate. One of our 30-30's is a tack driver, the other is still more than hunt capable.

My son's were 12 on their first hunt, they'll be 21 this fall. Both now have Rem 700 in 30-06 and love shooting a 300 Win mag, so they learned well on light recoil guns and are not afraid now to step up to the plate with the big boys.

I say get him a 30-30 now and whatever he wants later. The extra margin of penetration and expansion with the flat nosed 150 or 170 gr bullet packs a whallop.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2005, 10:24:09 AM »

First off, 257man, welcome aboard.

With the formalities out of the way and since the .30-30 has been brought into the topic, my son shot his first deer with a .30-30 in '87, although it wasn't a Handi, it was still a great starter caliber. My .30-30 shoots the 150gr Rem Corlokts in less the 1½" groups @ 100yd, and at $7-$10 a box for a non handloader, are cheap to shoot ta boot! :wink:

biglmbass · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2005, 10:40:03 AM »

The .30-30 is a great idea, and I'm a big fan of it, however unless I'm mistaken the youth Handi-Rifle is not offered in that caliber (as a complete youth gun).

I'm still undecided, but I know we don't want a .223. Gotta be a deer caliber. I'm not knocking anyone's choice in deer guns, but I personally don't feel like the .223 is adequate.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2005, 10:50:16 AM »

The .30-30 Handi would be purchased and you would order from H&R or buy from someone here, the youth stock, that way when he gets older, the standard stock can be put to use.... :wink: The synthetic youth butt is part #R02635, $31 and matching forend S02165, $15, 2004 prices. They are also frequently on Ebay, but I wouldn't count on getting a good price there.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3138411&cat=170119&type=1&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4155%3A170080%3A170118%3A170119

MSP Ret · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2005, 11:01:52 AM »

Biglmbass, if you go with the standard adult style 30-30 with a regular wooden stock set and want a youth style buttstock all you have to do is buy a regular 30-30 and advertise your needs here. I am sure to start a youngster out someone here would come up with either a youth buttstock or an adult buttstock that could be cut down (they might even cut it down for you!!!). Then just replace the original adult buttstock with the small one (a simple job, 2 screws, 1 bolt) and use it until your youngster outgrows it and then replace it with the adult buttstock. I am sure someone here could/would come up with an old buttstock for you to use very cheaply(Remember.."KISS", the simplicity and affordability of these guns is one of their attractions)....<><.... :grin:

mitchell · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2005, 11:14:59 AM »

i'll tell you what do you have a receiver??? i have been thinking about selling my 7mm-08 barrel it shoots good but i have other things i want to do so money is needed. if you have a receiver and would like to just try the 7mm-08 i'll send it to you for the cost of shipping if your son doesn't like it send it back if he does like it $65. let me know. and BTW the 7mm-08 is a great deer gun with this barrel i dropped one in its tracks at 278 yards (rangefinder checked)

MSP Ret · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2005, 11:58:20 AM »

There is a deal for you!!! Even if you get a 30-30 get the extra barrel!!!!....<><.... :grin:

jason burns · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2005, 12:02:58 PM »

Quote from: mitchell

i'll tell you what do you have a receiver??? i have been thinking about selling my 7mm-08 barrel it shoots good but i have other things i want to do so money is needed. if you have a receiver and would like to just try the 7mm-08 i'll send it to you for the cost of shipping if your son doesn't like it send it back if he does like it $65. let me know. and BTW the 7mm-08 is a great deer gun with this barrel i dropped one in its tracks at 278 yards (rangefinder checked)

PM sent . . . my son, who is eleven, would love it if it is still available!

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2005, 12:26:32 PM »

IME, few people are recoil shy, but most are report shy. Make sure that beginners wear both muffs and plugs and they rarely have problems.

This looks like a factory ammo versus handloads problem to me. If you are dependent on factory ammo, there are no low recoil loads available for the 7-08, and you are stuck with the .243. If you are a handloader, the 7-08 is the way to go.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/7mm08rem_y.php

MSP Ret · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2005, 12:29:41 PM »

Hi Mitchell, disregard my e-mail asking I be put in the #2 spot. I would defer to Jason's son, it would be going to a great guy and the fact he wants it for his son and has a reciever makes it ideal. After re-reading the posts I think biglmbass may be looking for a complete gun for his son and not just a barrel. So please take me out of the mix and put Jason and his son in my place...Good Luck guys!!!....<><.... :grin:

jason burns · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2005, 12:44:34 PM »

Quote from: MSP Ret

Hi Mitchell, disregard my e-mail asking I be put in the #2 spot. I would defer to Jason's son, it would be going to a great guy and the fact he wants it for his son and has a reciever makes it ideal. After re-reading the posts I think biglmbass may be looking for a complete gun for his son and not just a barrel. So please take me out of the mix and put Jason and his son in my place...Good Luck guys!!!....<><.... :grin:

Thanks alot for that . . . you are indeed a gentleman! I am not going to say anything to my son till I hear something because I know he would be elated!

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2005, 01:21:26 PM »

I will have to disagree with some of the posters on this one. I like the 243 youth model for younger kids. It has quite a bit less recoil than either a 30-30 or 7/08. And recoil is a big deal to a youngster. I started my grandson with the youth NEF when he was about 9. I had worked with him quite a bit with a 22 before going to the 243. That way he was familiar with shooting and WANTED to move into the deer rifles. He was afraid of how the gun would kick him so I put out a gallon jug filled with water at about 20 yds for his first attempt. He put the crosshairs on the jug a pulled the trigger. When the jug exploded he lost any thought about the recoil :grin: . He did notice the recoil with the shots on paper, but by then he was hooked and it wasn't a problem. He is now 11 and has 6 deer w/6 shots from his "Deer Thumper". We use the Remington Core-Loct 100 gr. and they work for deer. The 243 is a lot better caliber than people give it credit for. A deer hit in the lungs with this round is a dead deer. And the recoil is light enough that a youngster can make that shot without flinching. I love a 30-30 andlots of folks rave about 7/08, but for a kid I still like 243.

mitchell · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2005, 02:01:34 PM »

well let me get a answer from biglmbass i offered it to him first but if he doesn't want it jason if your son wants it it is yours and andy you know i would give it to you if you ask but i really like this gun and the only way i would prat with it would be to give it to a kid as a deer gun. jason if biglmbass passes the same offer is to you try it if your son don't like it send it back.

this offer is only good for kids!!

and andy BTW i got a birthday gift for you but your not getting it untill july!

jason burns · « **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2005, 02:06:54 PM »

That is VERY kind. I just traded Andy a syntetic stock to get a kid size synthetic stock for my son and this would make a great barrel for my son Nathan. If biglmbass wants it, I understand but I know Nathan would JUMP at the chance if biglmbass does not have a receiver!
Thanks!
Jason

James B · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2005, 02:28:52 PM »

I would go with the 7mm-08. You don't need to go with a 140 grain bullet. I shoot the 120 grain Sierra pro-hunter in my 280 and 7mm-08. It works great for deer and compared to the 243 with a 100 grain bullet, the recoil difference is almost nil. As he gets a little older and bigger then go with the heavier bullets and your up to taking even Elk size game with the 7mm-08. Its much more rifle than the 243 will ever be. I have the NEF 7mm-08 youth model because its easier for me to shoulder (With my Bum shoulder ) than the full lenght stock. Cabelas sells a slip on recoil pad called the Shooters Friend (I think) I bought one for my 45-70. Its a real soft wide pad that they say reduces recoil by 70 percent. IT DOES! It made a pussy cat out of my 45-70. :grin: Go to Cabelas.com and click on Hunting/Optics. Type in Shooter Friend recoil pad. Click on the image to make it bigger and check it out. This is one amazingly effective pad. It will slip right over the regular butt pad. This will also make the youth model fit the bigger shooter as well. At the range it will take the pain out of shooting the big guns. Its about 3 inches wide on the outside rear end.

handirifle · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2005, 04:54:49 PM »

biglmbass
Well looks like you got a lotta nice info and some REAL good offers. Wish I was a kid cause that barrel would be gone real quick.

Alas I'm but an old fart and will have to get mine the hard way.

If left to the two calibers you first suggested, I'd vote 7-08. Having had a 243 for many years, it is a fine caliber, but for a deer gun, the 7 has an edge on it for sure.

The 7-08 can be loaded with heavier bullets and should be a good mid range elk caliber, if larger isn't possible.

kenscot · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2005, 05:35:50 PM »

I have both 243 & 7mm-08 while I find the recoil between the two negligable my son was much for comfortable with the 243 so that his starter. I would perfer one well place shot with a 243 than a marginal one with a larger caliber. this will also mean more practice time on the range to build confidence.Which ever way you g good luck

257man · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2005, 06:53:39 PM »

Thanks for the welcome.
I have lurked around for quite some time just listening in and gathering all the useful insight that abounds here. Glad to be able to offer my experiences on this topic.
In the early 1990's the ranch I lived and worked on had a state biologist implement a program to improve our deer herd and in doing so we were required to remove a great number of excess doe to balance the buck to doe ratio. The short version of this story is that I personally harvested 30-35 whitetail doe per year for a 5 year period,a great number of these were with a 7-08. Trust me , it is a very effective caliber with very mild recoil . Shooting 120gr.handloads at around 2900fps, most of the deer literally fell in their tracks,some went 15-20 feet, none any more than that.
I now find myself guiding my son and watching him hunt these days and it is more fun to me than hunting has ever been.
Biglmbass,you will have more fun than you can imagine hunting with your son and at the same time build memories for him that will last his entire life.