Author Topic: Nonresident Hunter Manners  (Read 1413 times)

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Offline Dogshooter

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Nonresident Hunter Manners
« on: March 10, 2005, 04:55:00 PM »
I live in Wyoming and would like to bring up a point about non-resident hunters. Since Wyoming is one of the best big game hunting states in the country, we naturally get a lot of out of state hunters every year and they do make a significant impact on the business community in our state. I have met many of these hunters and as a rule, most are here to enjoy a fantastic hunting experience and most are fine people. Maybe it was just my bad luck but the last few years, I have run across an increasing number of what I would call, for lack of a better word, slob hunters. A few years ago, I shot a nice 6X6 bull, knocking him down with the first shot. No other shots were fired and I THOUGHT that I was pretty much alone as I was on private property. I looked across the park that the bull was laying in and before I had time to load another shell into my rifle, a teenager in tennis shoes was RUNNING to my elk. He got to him, sat on his side, and shoved a knife between the ribs of my elk. I walked up and asked what he was doing and he told me he got to him first, it was "their" elk. I looked back and a middle aged woman was running towards us screaming for me to get away from "their" elk, they got to it first. I wasn't in the mood to fight her for it so I decided to walk away. I watched from inside the black timber nearby and saw her cut off the head and they both carried it off. I then followed her to her car and while she was tying the head on top of her Mercedes, I got on my cellphone and called my grandfather (who was the owner of the property we were on) and had him join up with our local game warden and meet the nice lady at the highway with a warrant for trespassing and a ticket for waste of meat. Turns out she was needing a head to have mounted for a bar she owned in California. After fines and court costs, she could have bought a new bar. In the past, when we came across people on our land, we would just point them in the right direction and politely ask them to leave. Now when we see someone (almost always non-residents), they get belligerent and threaten us and point out that they pay exorbitant rates for their tags so they have a right to do what they want. These people are certainly not a majority of the people we meet from out of state, but is a little disconcerting that the incidents are increasing every year. Whatever happened to acting like a good guest when you go visit someone else's home? As for me, I hunt in every western state every year. I try to make friends every place I go, and usually do. Wish everyone did likewise.
Perception is everything. For instance, a crowded elevator smells different to a midget.

Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 06:22:26 PM »
A number of year's ago I was hunting the John Day River at Clarno, Oregon. I was up high and watched a guy watching some deer moving toward him. There were two little fork horn's in the group and he shot both. The first one he gut shot, then shot at the second also gut shooting it. Then he went back to the first and put two more shot's into it without killing it, then one more, deer probally bled to death. Then he started shooting at the second again, two more shot's to kill it.

I went down and talked to the guy. He also was from California. He'd come up to hunt with his dad, from The Dalles, Ore, and he leased private property about 3/4 mi away. They put a chain and a lock on the gate.

When he started leaving, I asked him about the other deer he shot and he dropped the first deer and went right to the second deer. I hiked out and called the gamewarden, also from The Dalles, and took him in to where he could see where the deer had been killed and the camp they were using. Told the warden, Ore State Police, that he was with his dad and they probally already had another tag on the second deer. I was told that if that was the case, he'd write a ticket for borrowing and lending also.

Turn's out that the father was a friend of the dad. The dad had tagged the second deer and the officer wrote one ticket for shooting the second deer, confiscated the second deer then re-validated the dad's tag and walked away. So much for borrowing and lending!

In the same area, there's a campground that is alway's looking like a trash bin after hunter's leave. These are not only non-resident's but state resident's that come from a long way off just to hunt. The resident's in many of these area's such as this really get tired of it. These people bring nothing into our local economy but leave us their trash to clean up. On top of that, they are willing to lay out huge sum's of money to lease up private ranches in the areas. Some year's ago, Cherry Creek Ranch went to a group out of Seattle for $35,000.00. Hay Creek Ranch has now been taken over by some outfitting outfit out of Prineville, Ore. The ranch's up on the Criterion have been leased up by yet another club, out of Califorina.

trespassing is a major problem durning the hunting season's. This is happening where, a few years ago, the average income of area residents was $14,000 per year. We have trouble getting tags, we're left to clean up other's garbage, and people in this area can't compete dollar wise with the big money guy's coming in and leasing everything up.

This is a situtation not likely to change in the near future. Oregon fish and game is only interested in the revenue, and damn little of it goes back into fish and game. Now I see where some non-resident hunter's are complaining about the price of their tag's. Well baby, you brought it on yourself. In time, hunting will be like Europe, a sport only for the wealthy.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2005, 12:58:31 AM »
I think this thread needs to be closed. I for one would like to make comments but refrain from doing so. I do not feel I could keep it civil.  :evil:
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Offline Dogshooter

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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 01:38:44 AM »
Didn't intend to open a slugfest, just wanted to point out that there are two sides to the non-resident issue. I have many more stories I could pass on about both well mannered people as well as those who are not so well mannered. My point was that the latter seem to be becoming a larger percentage of the whole every year. Ang guys and girls, if we don't keep this sport civil, the rest of the folks ain't gonna let it get too far out of hand.
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 02:14:33 AM »
The group of hunter I hunt with and it includes new and young hunters. We leave the area better than we found it. We pick up trash left by others. Like I said in another post, there are pigs everywhere. I went to Alaska last year on a drop hunt and when we flew off the lake you could not tell we were even there. I just think this whole resident and non-resident hunter (crap) is bad for hunters in general. When you start a thread about Non-resident Hunter Manners, it is already pointing fingers and will invite a negative response.

I know a lot of resident hunter in my State that are total slobs, I do not have a problem turning them in for littering or game violations.  It is not just non-resident hunters that do this. I think you post should of said "We Hunters need to check our Manners"

I hunt in at least 2 to 3 different States every year and I don't see what you post above. The places I hunt we all get along and treat others with the upmost respect. Resident and non-residents, I am glad I have not run into any anti-non-resident hunters.
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 04:46:32 AM »
Don Fischer, you seem to be down on non-resident hunters and people that have money. But let me give you an example of what resident hunters do to use non-resident hunters. And still I harbor no hard feelings to resident hunters in States I am a non-resident in. I lease a farm to hunt with a group of guys. They put up wooden stands and I put up very nice expensive steel ladder stands with nice shooting rests. I chain them up and also put cable locks on them. The second month out there and my stands get stolen. The farm behind where the stands were stolen from is where they came in of 4 wheelers and took them. The resident hunters were the ones that did that, they also stole some stands from other  leases in the same area. But should I discriminate agents all the resident hunters in the State that I am a non-resident hunter in. NO! there are those kind of people regardless of the residency.  So don't lay a planked statement on all non-residents.
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 06:25:17 AM »
I think your right, this does need to be closed. I've a hard time staying as civil as I can on this issue.But I am one of the guy's that live's in one of the little out of the way places that get's over run every year by people who think we hold this country in escrow for them. With us out here, it's not only the out of stater's but also a large influx of people from the large cities even in our own state. Bitter about this issue, your right. I love where I live and I love the animal's around here. Yet every year the onslaught get's worse.

And as for the money that come's in, it does little to help our local economy. Instead we feel like the unpaid overworked keepers of huge recreational land for a bunch of people that believe money can buy everything. They're right too, our fish and game here would sell us all down the river for a price. Fish and game is not well thought of here. The money that come's in is used in large for administrative cost's and program's like the failed Red Leg planting's, the scheuane planting on private property in the Willamette Valley, big horn sheep planting on the Deschutes River and now we're getting Mountain Goat's in the columbia river gorge.

Those of us who live in these areas have no say in any of this. I was talking to a game biologist some year's back and he told me that his recommendations to often got set aside in favor of license sale's! My brother in law in Michigan was a biologist there and quit for the same reason's. Every year our fee's for license's and tag's continue to escalate not for any other reason than they can. In this area with the poor wages, laying out the cost of those fee's creates a hardship on a lot of local resident's, they're priced out of the Sport of hunting when for some it's not sport, it's food. Those of you that view hunting anywhere you want and have been willing to pay outrageous fee's all these years are now being hit with to big a bill in Arizona and listen to them scream. The bill is finally getting to high for some. Got new's for you, the next tier up hasn't reached the point where they are not willing to pay yet! Some guy reportably just paid well over $100,000 for a governors tag in Colorado.

We have no RIGHT to hunt in this country and the way thing's are going, in time we'll have hunting like in Europe. I spent three year's in Germany and ONLY the wealthy hunt there.

I know good and well that there's nothing I can say that will faze those that believe it's their right one bit, and it's really frustrating. Those of you that take it for granted and are willing, or were willing to pay any price, some of you are finding yourself being brought down to the level of people that live in these areas and the guy's one tier up don't care. So it's to late to start complaining about high non-resident fee's, you should have thought about that year's ago!

If your not one of the slob's, what are you ofended about? They are making the black mark on you, not us. Maybe just maybe you should also be ofended, not with those of us who condem this and live in this country year round, but with those who are doing these thing's I'm talking about.
Just maybe you should have been ofended long befor the price of tag's got to where you don't want to pay anymore.

Ya, probally best to close this down, those of us that live here are never going to agree with those of you that buy your way in and many of us out!
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2005, 07:09:48 AM »
Don Fischer, I don't feel your pain. Here in Delaware we have people come from Pennsylvania, New jersey, New York, Maryland, Virginia to hunt deer and waterfowel. I welcome them and have even shown a few of them spots to go to. The local economy profits from them as well as our game & fish department. It is not just your State that non-resident hunters come to.

It is becoming a rich mans sport because of greed by the State game & fish departments and land owners. So the blame does not go to the guy that can afford to hunt. I enjoy hunting not only in my home State but other States.  

I get offended by open statements, even though I am not guilty of doing it, you placed all non-resident hunters in one category.
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Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 08:03:11 AM »
We all know what people everyone is gripping about.   It's the people who come to "get" something and go home very pissed off when they don't.  It's the people who herd shoot, praying that one drops, and not caring about the suffering of the rest of the animals.  Its the people that see you putting a sneak on a game animal and take the shot over your back at 400 yards from the hood of their truck, then quickly drive off if the animal runs off.  Its those people that will steal a deer from your camp, check their sights by shooting at a pine cone near your tree stand, or use all of a 10 round magazine at a departing deer 300 yards out.  And it's the people that shoot 300 doves when there is a 10 dove limit because they just didn't want to stop having fun. These people come from all 50 states and hunt in all 50 states.  They are female, male, and juvenile.  I will condemn them even if it might cause us all to lose our guns.  These people are not hunters, they are the people that give the sport a bad name, and there has to be someplace to gripe about them.

I got my elk cow this year - they even let me keep the saddle that was on her.

C F
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Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2005, 11:26:42 AM »
There are two sides to every story.  There isn’t a year that goes by that I don’t have to direct a “lost” hunter off our property.  The greatest percentage of the ones that give me a hard time are what we call “day hunters”.  These are resident hunters that travel from the large cities to hunt for just the one day.  They seem to think because they are ONLY there for the one day that they aren’t hurting anything.  I have had more trouble with these so called hunters over leaving gates open, tearing down fences, chopping down/on trees and in general littering up the land.  In all my years I have only had one non-resident that gave me a bad time about leaving my property.  Most, in fact, come into the yard and ask for permission and if I could point them to a place they could hunt if I didn’t give them permission.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2005, 02:58:58 PM »
Let's clear something up here. Where I live we concider everyone from out of the eastern part of the state and from Bend, non-resident's. The unfortunate thing is that to many come over, to our home, trash it and leave. Generally our biggest problem's come from bird hunter's. It is a sad thing that the institution like hunting has gone the way it has.

But then look at some of the thing's we see writen in different place's. We incourage this desention.  The more we have to pay, the more right we feel that we deserve something in return. Befor you chop my head off, not everyone but then it's not everyone that leaves all the trash, it's just the local's left to deal with it when everyone goes home.

The ethic's and the moral's of some in this thing called sport hunting steadly fall's down hill but we like to protect each others right to do these thing's for fear someone will take away from us. We have seen in this site where some were going "wow" over those that would shoot game at 1000 plus yards. Few condemed it and some supported it. How can that be? How can anyone claim it's alright to shoot at those distances at game animal's? Yet there wasn't much outrage.

And if thing's like that are alright then what's a little fudging on property line's, why not just pile up your trash and leave it in a fire pit, and why carry out those empty aluminum can's that you carried in full. Hunting is a privledge and nothing more. For some people where I live, it's meat in the freezer, meat they can't afford to buy, and they don't want handout's. They poach, steal your game and nobody over here will turn them in, we'll denigh it happen's.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline SAWgunner

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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 07:01:52 PM »
Wellllll.....


I am originally from Georgia, but now I live in Wyoming.  I will not state MY opinion, but that of my wife's family and other native Wyoming people.  My wife's family have been cattle ranchers here since 1886, so I listen to what they have to say about the state with an attentive ear.  They have said in the past, "We have been here for 120 years and we have always hunted on land we have owned, but should we choose to hunt elsewhere, we can't.  We pay taxes and contribute signifigantly to the welfare of this state but we cannot hunt on opening say because of all of the out of state hunters.  They are not all bad, but one would think that residents would have first choice."  This is passed on for the sake of the thread.


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Offline Rustyinfla

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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2005, 07:32:10 PM »
Don,
     I think if the truth were to be told it's not just slob hunters that are causing your problems there. It's people everywhere. that's why everyone everywhere has adopted the "ME FIRST" mentality. That why there is road rage on the public highways as well. People are just not concerned with the rights of others any more.

  I'm afraid if I were in your situation and needed the meat and couldn't afford the fees it would be the same to me as hunting the kings deer. A man has to do what a man has to do to feed his family.

   I wish you well,
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Offline Dogshooter

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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2005, 05:44:34 PM »
The anger and resentment in some of these posts in unjustified. Read my post again and notice the sentence "These people are certainly not a majority of the people we meet from out of state, but is a little disconcerting that the incidents are increasing every year." I stand by that statement. Most are good people there to have a good time. There are a few areas that seem to attract a lot of campers evey year and I HAVE driven thru them and can say that I have never seen a Wyoming liscence plate in the 50 or so campers that crowd into the Aspen groves near our place. And I can also say that the trash left behind is unbelievable. Of course there is a chance that the resident hunters go there after the season to dump their trash just to make the non-residents look bad  :roll: .
Perception is everything. For instance, a crowded elevator smells different to a midget.

Offline Thomas Krupinski

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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2005, 04:02:54 AM »
Like Dogshooter said it's not the majority of nonresident hunters by any means.  I have helped and taken out a number of nonresident hunters on self guided hunts and they were outstanding examples of good sportsman.  However I screened these folks carefully before extending an invitation to take them around and show them the unit they were drawn for.

Over the years I have also run across a number of people out in the field that were not.  Some of those were not even legal hunters and some that were engaged in nonhunting criminal activity which was reported.  Criminals are found in the cities as well as on the field now.

Offline Spyro Andes

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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2005, 01:22:42 PM »
This whole topic is a good laugh...

Frankly, if this is about SLOB HUNTERS, the number of resident slob hunters that I have run into versus nonresident slob hunters is atleast... ATLEAST... 10 to 1.

Most nonresidents hunters that I have across are far more serious about their hunting than the average resident.

I have to laugh at Thomas for example...  I don't know to many people, who aren't serious about their hunting, that would lay out thousands of dollars and 10 years of applying for tags if they were not serious about their hunting.

I have seen several residents poaching.

I have seen several residents tanked up and hunting.

I have seen several residents sneaking onto private property.

Let me put it this way, I have ran camps in Alaska, I have guided in 2 western states and guided in Mexico.

You don't see nonresidents poaching the pansaguant, the kaibab or the arizona strip.

You don't see nonresidents poaching the gilas for money to buy crank.

You don't see nonresidents killing bears to sell off the gall bladders.

You don't see nonresidents ignoring limits or seasons because "the animals are on their property."

I could be mistaken but weren't a couple of the Arizona Mule Deer Association bust for various game violations, like poaching, while they were holding office?

Thomas, I think you are full of cr@p.

Offline Thomas Krupinski

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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2005, 01:47:43 PM »
Spryo, coming from the bull you have been spouting here and on other posts, I doubt anything you have to say has any validity.   It's pointless to argue with ID10T's, so I am just going to ignore you.

Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2005, 04:36:01 PM »
Tom, good move, ignor him. Other than complain about non-resident fee's and trying to scalp the extra tag's he and his "group" bought by getting deals, he hasn't really contributed much around here. There's a few guy's I've gotton into it with but at least they had something to say rather than singing the blue's.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Spyro Andes

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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2005, 11:31:23 PM »
Tom & Don,

Is it just a coincidence that your are both 58 and whine about nonresidents?

Two titty babies separated at birth?

The funny thing is...  I hope neither of you hunts each other's state because then you would be whining about each other.

Anyway, it was cute how you bowed out.

Not addressing any of the points that I made...

Like residents poaching...

Like residents getting tanked while hunting...

Like residents knowingly trespassing...

Don't trust me... look on line... many states will have the game violations online...

I remember looking a couple of years back at Utah's violations...  Of like 200 big game violations on the pansaguant, 190 were by residents and all of the poaching violations (over like 90 cases) were ALL by residents.  The nonresident violations were for things like not possessing their license or not immediately tagging.

Since you are in Arizona, Thomas, why don't you research elk violations in Arizona and tell us where the poachers reside?

You won't because you know that I am right.

SA

Offline Spyro Andes

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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2005, 11:40:12 PM »
Quote from: Don Fischer
Tom, good move, ignor him. Other than complain about non-resident fee's and trying to scalp the extra tag's he and his "group" bought by getting deals, he hasn't really contributed much around here. There's a few guy's I've gotton into it with but at least they had something to say rather than singing the blue's.


FEES not fee's

TAGS not tag's

GUYS not guy's

BLUES not blue's.

You are a 58 year old man, you should know that difference between the plural and the possessive forms.

Or is your view on non-residents (not nonresident's) not the only way you have expressed your ignorance in this thread?

SA

PS. Now you no reason to complain about me never contributing around here.

Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2005, 03:02:21 AM »
I think this thread has worn out it's usefulness. As long as non-residents vs. residents is the issue, the anti-hunters have won a battle they are not even in. I am sorry I took part in such a worthless post.  :o
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Offline alsatian

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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2005, 03:39:11 AM »
Dogshooter:

I don't think your problem is specifically related to non-residents.  It seems to me that residents probably also do illegal and unmannerly things in the field.  The behaviors you described were reprehensible, and it was delightful to hear of the woman being arrested and dealt appropriate justice.  All hunters afield ought to be respectful of landowners's wishes (including staying off of their private land when they don't have prior permission!!!) and respectful of fellow sportsmen.  Maybe you see more of this among non-residents, because residents are more liable to be properly educated on these matters than non-residents who may have never been afield before.  I wouldn't bet a lot that the woman stealing your elk had been hunting before.

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2005, 03:46:01 AM »
Speaking of poor manners. What do you think has been displayed here? End of discussion. Topic is locked. I would have expected better from the regulars here. :oops:


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