Author Topic: Taxes: Our Government - How Much Longer Can It Last?  (Read 2192 times)

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Offline BamBams

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Taxes: Our Government - How Much Longer Can It Last?
« on: March 11, 2005, 05:39:34 AM »
It seems like we are taxed on everything.  The gov't is way too big.  Much bigger than it needs to be.

Every little thing we buy is taxed.  Our propery is taxed.  Our energy is taxed.  All our services are taxed.  Our income is taxed.  All this for what?

Look at all the useless crap our gov't spends OUR earnings on.  Stuff we never get any say about.  The gov't is now nickel and diming the American wage earner to a slow, financial death.  

Here are the new set of American "ideals" and "values":

Feed Uncle Sam FIRST, then, if you have enough left over, take care of your family.  And completely forget about the idea of taking care of yourself.  You cannot take care of "A" and "B" if you even think about taking care of "C" also.

If the above values don't create a functional environment for you, then you must put your wife and kids to work.  And why not?  It's just more money for the gov't.  Remember, we have new values now!

Our gov't is turning into a giant Hoover vacuum cleaner - sucking everything it can out of everybody.  Is this what we wanted?

I'm not being cynical when I say I'd love to see our government go totally bankrupt and have to start all over again.  I love America, and I love the principles we once stood for, but our government is really starting to suck.  I can no longer have "best wishes" for Congress at all.  Nope, I see absolutely no redeeming value in the current direction of our government.  I truly think we shall see the "fall of Rome" once again.  It's just a matter of time folks.

If I had the money to move,  I think you'd find me on a farm in the Federated States of Micronesia, or someplace like that.  I am no longer convinced that America is the greatest place to live.  If someone out there is a millionaire and would pay my way, I'd start packing today. The citizens that still have their heads screwed on straight, have no influence or power here anymore and our government no longer represents them.

We are TRULY back to the days of "taxation without representation."
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Offline FWiedner

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Re: Taxes: Our Government - How Much Longer Can It Last?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2005, 06:05:55 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
It seems like we are taxed on everything.  The gov't is too big.  Every little thing we buy is taxed.  Our propery is taxed.  Our energy is taxed.  All our services are taxed.  Our income is taxed.  All this for what?  Look at all the useless crap our gov't spends OUR earnings on.  Stuff we never get any say about.  The gov't is nickel and diming the American wage earner to a slow, financial death.

Here's the new American "ideal" as I see it:

Feed Uncle Sam FIRST, then, if you have enough left over, take care of your family.  And completely forget about taking care of yourself.  You cannot take care of "A" and "B" if you even think about taking care of "C" also.

If the above values don't work for you, then put your wife and kids to work.  And why not?  It's just more money for the gov't.  Our gov't is turning into a giant Hoover vacuum cleaner - sucking everything it can out of everybody.  Is this what we wanted?

I'm not being cynical when I say I'd love to see our government go totally bankrupt and have to start all over again.  I love America, and I love the principles we once stood for, but our government is really starting to suck.  I can no longer have "best wishes" for Congress at all.  Nope, I see no absolutely no redeeming value in the current direction of our government.  I truly think we shall see the "fall of Rome" once again.  It's just a matter of time folks.


Taxation is a huge issue, and I agree with the views that you have expressed in their entirety.

I just wanted to add my own, related rant about over-regulation of daily activity and life.

Not only are we taxed and forced to pay "user fees" on everything, but the government is in our lives telling us what to do and how to do it from the time we wake up until the time our heads hit the pillow again at night.

The government has it's hand in what we eat, what we wear, what we see, what we hear, what and how we teach our kids, how we treat our pets,  how we earn our livings, how we get from point A to point B, which way we can get from point A to point B, how we get back, how and where we spend our money, how and where we have access to our money, how we have sex, who and what we sex with, where and what we can poop, what drugs we can or can't use for medical or recreational purposes,  where we sleep, what we sleep on, and what we are allowed to think of and or dream about (to some degree)...

Now I'm not saying that all of this is entirely good or entirely bad, but good grief, when is enough enough?

Yes, ENTIRELY too much government...

 :x
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline BamBams

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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2005, 06:35:42 AM »
"Land of the brave and home of the free"?  I DON'T THINK SO!

We are just like the proverbial frog, slowly boiling to death in a pan of heated water.
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Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 07:21:09 AM »
I agree with just about everything written above.
Makes me pretty sad & dissapointed in not only our Gov't but in the blindness of the average Joe on the street. Most people I talk with seem to think nothings wrong & are fine with giving up our freedoms in order to allow the gov't to protect us. I gotta wonder why these folks want to live in a free society at all.

I dont want the gov't telling me how to raise my kids or what I can see on tv. I dont want my gov't to tax me & then send my money off to forien lands. I dont want my gov't to do much at all really but safeguard my rights.
Thats what theyre really there for anyway.

I might add that IMO it cant go on much longer. People here are finding it more & more difficult to get by & at some point we just wont be able to afford it period.
I cant speak for all but if it gets to where I can pay taxes or eat I reckon I'm eating.
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Offline Mauser

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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 08:33:13 AM »
I saw that a Democrat (who else?) has proposed a $.02 per roll toilet paper tax in florida.  Only a Democrat could come up with a tax on wiping your a_ _.  

I agree, it's getting really crazy.

Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 09:25:15 AM »
I have been on this rant for a few years now.
Everybody wans to talk the talk, but I haven't seen or spoken to anyone willing to walk the walk.
Truth is, as much as we might despise our overgrown government, we are all afraid to do something about it.
I reckoned I'd eat too if it came down to it, but guess what, when we got the letter that our home was being auctioned off if we don't pay those (censored word) taxes, I worked even harder to get them their stinking money.
I have a wife and four kids who need me.  Alive.
If I was single, there is a good chance you would have already read about my martyrdom in the news.
I would have went down shooting.
In this day and age, we really don't need much more than a figurehead that can still be called president.
We no longer need senators, representatives, congressmen, or any such overburdening nonsense.
The issues can come to us directly for a vote.
As far as our money going overseas goes, I would rather that than the continuation of welfare.
People in jail and on welfare have more than I do without having to work for it.
Yeah, I have a home, a couple of cars, and what's left of my gun collection, but if I wasn't working TWO jobs, even that would not be possible, let alone health insurance.
Instead of voting themselves pay raises, our so called representatives should be looking for ways to trim the fat.
There is no doubt we are overtaxed if our government has the money it does to spend as it does.
It comes from US.
I should not have to pay $7,200 per year in property taxes to live on a crappy little 60' X 100' piece of property.  Something just ain't right.
Until WE THE PEOPLE are prepared to take our government back by whatever means necessary, then we can all piss and moan all we want, because the government is NOT going to fix itself and will keep pushing until something finally does break.
Our founding fathers and patriots of old would turn in their graves if they knew what has become of their vision.
I, for one, am prepared to join any just movement to do whatever is necessary, but I cannot do it alone.
Ranger
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 09:37:19 AM »
Quote from: RIFLERANGER
but I haven't seen or spoken to anyone willing to walk the walk.


I'm more than willing to walk my talk - walk my butt right outta this country, but it "seems" I'm stuck here - for now anyway.

Oh there was a "time" in my life when I would fight back,  but now that I've gotten older, and realized who has the power and who doesn't, fighting back seems to be an excercise in futility.  This is not something you can "win" anymore.  Our government would have to collapse and rebuild for any of this to ever change.
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2005, 09:41:40 AM »
We have traded liberty for safety, independence and responsibility for welfare. We have given away right's so that what we have won't be taken from us. We have become a socialist country and continue downhill on that path.

We hear every day how the police lay their live's on the line for us yet, they have one of the safest jobs there is. They have incredible power that we won't take away because we're afraid of organized crime. Yet more people have had their live's ruined by police action and government than ever has by organized crime.

It is a sad note that judge's make law from the bench, attournery's flagrantly violate law and do so without fear of recourse. We have traded our liberty's for safety.

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson that said: "People who would trade liberty for safety, deserve neither."
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 10:19:19 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
 This is not something you can "win" anymore.  Our government would have to collapse and rebuild for any of this to ever change.


I disagree.  I think we can win, and win handily.
I believe that even though Ruby Ridge and Waco are evidence that the government can and will deploy troops against US citizens, there are underlying circumstances in those cases that differ greatly from what they would be up against if we got together en masse to change things within our government.
I am convinced that not only would the majority of our troops disregard any government orders to fire upon us, they would probably join in the fight.
They haven't been treated all that well by "their" government either.
Again, the problem is organizing this.
It would have to be done very quietly, as the government has very big ears and would no doubt work to nip this kind of movement in the bud by taking out the more vocal of the organizers in an effort to cause dissent amongst the remainder.
This type of thing is a HUGE undertaking, and that in and of itself will probably prevent this from getting off the ground.
The only other alternative is that a few heros make alot of noise and get the snowball effect underway.
They will likely pay with their lives, but the end result, if and when achieved, would absolutely be worth it.
Who is ready to die for this FIRST ?!?!
Ranger
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2005, 10:23:28 AM »
Well that's sounds great to me, BUT,

I can't ever see the citizens gathering together "en mass" or that anyone CAN organize something like this.  I just don't believe it can ever happen under today's circumstances.  That's why I see it as an excercise in futility.  Reminds of the song, "Dream.....the impossible dream."
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Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2005, 10:54:44 AM »
Quote
I have been on this rant for a few years now.
Everybody wans to talk the talk, but I haven't seen or spoken to anyone willing to walk the walk.
Truth is, as much as we might despise our overgrown government, we are all afraid to do something about it.
I reckoned I'd eat too if it came down to it, but guess what, when we got the letter that our home was being auctioned off if we don't pay those **** taxes, I worked even harder to get them their stinking money.
I have a wife and four kids who need me. Alive.



Rifleranger,

I understand where your coming from but if not just you, not just me, but everyone refused to support the broken system we're faced with it would be different. The Gov't needs to relearn who's money theyre spending.
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Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 12:57:37 PM »
Most agreed, LD.  Again, this needs to be organized, and it would be next to impossible.
The worst thing is, is that the government stopped trusting us to pay taxes, so they legislated that business / corporations do the deducting and remitting.  How convenient; to enlist them to do the dirty work.
Granted, everybody to some extent ends up owing or getting back, but bottom line is, it would still be plenty.
I added up not long ago how much of my hard earned money goes to taxes and fees, and I found that we live in a much more socialism oriented country than most realize.
If the government just came out and said "Hey, no more hidden taxes and fees, everybody just pony up 65% of what you earn and you get to spend the rest as you wish", I bet the outcry would be unbearable.
Keep it hidden in the way they do, and it doesn't seem so bad.
Do the math; gasoline, cigarettes, booze, income, sales, property, phone bill, electric bill, gas bill, etc. ad nauseum, and there goes another piece of the pie.
It would take the organization of the businesses themselves to stop taking from us and giving to the government, but how fast do you imagine that they will climb on board for us as long as they are allowed to stay in business ?
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2005, 01:18:31 PM »
A quote comes to mind:

Quote from: Frank Herbert
If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual.


I recall much heated discussion, just last fall, wherein most could not be convinced that turning their backs on the two-party socialist platform was a beginning to regaining control of the government.  The local Republicrats were afraid that their favored socialist would lose and that they'd be stuck with a socialist.

They were more afraid that their socialist would lose than that they might be turned into wage slaves.

 :(
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2005, 02:01:51 PM »
Our new bimbo Governer wants to raise cigarette taxes $2.00 a pack so she can fix the roads.  :?  Go figure, I thought that was what my vehicle & property taxes were for.

Honestly, tho I think theyre a bit high I dont much mind property tax as, more than other taxes anyway, I can see where the money goes & some at least benefits the comunity.
Income tax however is rediculous IMO as is sales tax.
I too figured one time all we spend on taxes & tho I dont recall exactly the figure 65% sounds about right.

NY is a little worse than CT but not by much.
I'v alot of family still in Portchester, my uncle/hunting buddy ouns a house there with a little maybe 50X 125 lot & pays almost $10,000 a year.  :shock:   I pay just under $7,000 but my house is a 2 family with a double lot. Still its too much IMO.

If I dont croak first I plan on gong up to NH in the next few years.
Their gun laws are awesome compared to here for one thing & theres no sales tax or income tax. Their property taxes are considered high to them but they dont compare to here.
I'v got a few financial things to figure out first but the numbers look workable & unless I die thats where I plan on bringing my family.
Too damn many people here anyway.
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2005, 02:19:04 PM »
Let's see, last I read, 50% of American citizens don't pay income tax, approx. 60% of the work force work's for government, government is the largest employer in the country by far, It is doubtful you'd ever get the military not to do what their told, they didn't fold under Clinton and word was they hated him! Lastly, why do you think we've been turned into a welfare state? Human nature is that you never bite the hand that feed's you.

Think you can vote them out? Wrong, excuse me to those of you in the way here, the major metro area's control the vote in every state, and a few state's seem to control the whole country. Spread the welfare around the right place's and you own the state. Why do you think California is such a prize, four areas control the whole state.

What has happened in this country in my life alone send's a clear signal that our future is even more socialism than we know now. Sometimes prosperity is not all that great, it give's people in power something to lose and the single biggest tool to keep a people in line is fear of loss.

You will pay your taxes because you have much more to lose and the fear of losing that outweight's your disgust of paying taxes.

"People who trade their liberty for safety, deserve neither."
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline magooch

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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2005, 05:58:13 AM »
The problem is that for every one of us who would like to have less government (taxes), there are two or three who want more from the government.  It just amazes me how people believe that it's okay for someone else to pay for their health care, education, retirement, etc. etc.

Somehow, no matter what the issue is, the solution is to tax the rich.  The rich apparently is anyone who has a couple more dollars than the leech who wants something.

As bad as it might seem though, this is still the best country on earth.  We just have to keep working at it to keep it from going completely to the socialists.  Write those letters to the editor and to your Congress people.
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Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2005, 06:10:43 AM »
Magooch, I have been writing my representatives til I am blue in the face.
I have come to the conclusion that they don't give a rats rear end about fixing problems, in fact they enjoy the status quo.
For some strange reason, it is easier to keep taxing those that have and giving to those that don't than to take away from those that don't and allowing those that do to have more.
Until welfare is truly overhauled, it is easier to get those votes, that outnumber us apparently, than to count on us.
I am willing to guess that cash side jobs probably help many people stay above water.
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Offline magooch

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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2005, 04:58:34 AM »
Keep an eye on Newt Gingrich; I think he is one of the few who understands how taxes are pulling us down.  He might be hinting at a Presidential run with capping taxes as his theme.  He once said that the sum of all taxes should be capped at 25% of ones income.  I don't know how that could be done, but it is on the right track.
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Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2005, 05:42:14 AM »
They all say alot of things to get elected. I'd like to see one of them turn down their salary as a show of lowering Gov't costs as theyre all rich for the most part anyway.
I dont think they oughtta be able to use their welth or the wealth of their constituents to help getting elected either. Who knows how many more qualified & down to earth candidates might pop up if they could compete with the campaigns of the almighty rich folks.
Maybe just give them all an hour a week on the major networks to sell themselves in the months before election.
I'd really like to see a guy with callouses on his hands in the white house myself.
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Offline papajohn428

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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2005, 01:31:00 PM »
Lots of interesting thoughts here, try on a few of mine, just off the top of my head.

1.  To shut down the government you first have to stop feeding it.   If they didn't get tax revenue, everything grinds to a halt, and we have their attention.  How do you stop paying taxes?  Mine are taken out of my check before I even get it.  How do we change that?  If no one pays their income taxes, the Federal gov't is out of business, period.  Eventually the infrastructure would crumble, but hopefully before that happens we have a new, streamlined system in place.  If no one pays their income tax, what are they gonna do, lock up 75 million people?

2.  Restructure the political pay scales.  If a guy wants to be a U.S. Senator, he makes whatever the average income for his state is, plus a some expenses.  He pays for his health care the same way we do.   Same for state reps, mayors, everyone.  The only way to get a raise is to raise the average income of your constituency.  

3.  Trade Welfare for Workfare.  No more sitting on your butt popping out babies every year for bigger checks.  If you work you eat.  If you're disabled, we'll cover you, but you have to be truly disabled, not just lazy with a doctor's note.  

4.  Eliminate foreign Aid, except to those places that truly need it.  And get the U.N. (which we pay most of the bills for) off American soil.  Tell the world they're on their own until our own latrine is fixed, then we'll worry about theirs.  We don't owe anyone a thing, they owe us Trillions.  

5.  Get the dollar back on the Gold Standard.  Otherwise inflation comes too easily to a gov't that prints its own money whenever it needs more.

6.  Flat tax rate, period.  The more you make, the more you keep.  Endowment/entitlement programs are out of control anyway.

7.  Prison inmates work for free, raise their own food and cover their own cocts thru production of goods or services.  Paying $40,000 a year per man to house an inmate is insane.  

8.  Recall 50% of all U.S. troops as soon as possible, and turn them into Border Guards.  You cross illegally, we shoot at you.  If you are found within the borders you will be shipped to wherever you came from, and not to some nearby border town.  WAY back home!  Do it again you go to a work farm, and when your sentence is up THEN you get deported!

9.  I can't afford health insurance, but some guy who sneaks across the border in violation of our laws gets his for FREE?  Whose brilliant idea was that?  

10.  Bar attorneys from holding office.  We need Statesmen, not career politicians!  A few good economists would be nice!

Okay, I'm done.  Any thoughts?

Papajohn
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Offline Brett

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« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2005, 03:24:25 PM »
Papajohn,  Your outline looks good to me. the only change I may suggest is that instead of a flat income tax we have a national sales tax on everything except food and clothes.  No one would be taxed for making money only for spending money.  The more money you spend the more taxes you pay the less you spend the less you pay.  If you can afford a palace or a $65,000 automobile you can afford the taxes if you can only afford a modest home and a used Yugo you are taxed accordingly.  If you chooser to bank your money for your future retirement then you will have more principal to collect interest on or invest.
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2005, 03:58:53 PM »
...and when we are free we will pay the master in silver rather than in gold.  

Yes...  That will show him that WE are in charge.

 :shock:
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline bullet maker

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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2005, 12:41:11 AM »
Quote from: Leverdude
Our new bimbo Governer wants to raise cigarette taxes $2.00 a pack so she can fix the roads.  :?  Go figure, I thought that was what my vehicle & property taxes were for.

Honestly, tho I think theyre a bit high I dont much mind property tax as, more than other taxes anyway, I can see where the money goes & some at least benefits the comunity.
Income tax however is rediculous IMO as is sales tax.
I too figured one time all we spend on taxes & tho I dont recall exactly the figure 65% sounds about right.

NY is a little worse than CT but not by much.
I'v alot of family still in Portchester, my uncle/hunting buddy ouns a house there with a little maybe 50X 125 lot & pays almost $10,000 a year.  :shock:   I pay just under $7,000 but my house is a 2 family with a double lot. Still its too much IMO.

If I dont croak first I plan on gong up to NH in the next few years.
Their gun laws are awesome compared to here for one thing & theres no sales tax or income tax. Their property taxes are considered high to them but they dont compare to here.
I'v got a few financial things to figure out first but the numbers look workable & unless I die thats where I plan on bringing my family.
Too damn many people here anyway.


Hi leverdude  :D

   You guy`s need to move to okla, I own 200 acres, my house is 1530 square feet, and my property taxes is only $835.00 per year.

But yes, I`m in totaly agreement that we need to take back our government.

bullet maker :D
I like to make bullets, handload, shooting of all types, hunting, fishing, taking pictures, reading, grandchildren, 4 wheeling, eating out often.

Offline bullet maker

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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2005, 01:35:34 AM »
Hi guy`s :D

    I recommend a book called ( Government Racket) WASHINGTON WASTE FROM A TO Z. It is written by MARTIN L. GROSS. Its one of those books that you can`t put down untill you finish reading it all. It exposes our government, and the waste of our tax dollars. What you don`t know about government spending is costing you a fortune. Its, a bantam book, and you can probably get it on e-bay or your local book store.
Here`s an example:
   Mr. John Q. Bureaucrat is retiring from the federal government in 1993 with a broad grin spread across his face., Why not? he`s had a nice career, ending his days as a GS-15, a specialist rank just below the top executive levels. His salary in his last year was $85,000. He`s only fifty-five, but he`s put in 30 years, coming to Washington not long after graduating from the University of Michigan.
   How will he live now that he`s retired? VERY WELL. He has a new job for the next ten years until he`s sixty-five, the usual retirement age, at a nonprofit organization in Washington. It`s not as good as his old government position, but he`ll get $55,000 a year. How large a pension will he get from Uncle Sam? Well that`s why he`s smiling. :-)
   His pension, like that of most federal retirees, will be--according to a govenment retirement expert--approximately 70% of the highest of his last three years pay. For Mr. J. Bureaucrat that well be $56,100 a year, a number that will automatically rise each year with the cost-of-living adjustment. So, assuming only a 3.5% inflation rate, ten years after his retirement he will be receiving as much from the taxpayers as when he was working for the government. A pension of $85,000.00 Absolutely :twisted:
    How did it get there, and how can we possibly afford it? In 1984, the government started a new pension system, surely the richest in America. It`s called FERS, (FEDERAL EMPLOYEE RETIREMENT SYSTEM),  and it`s a triple-threat scheme.
   Part 1 is called a (DEFINED BENEFIT). Mr. Bureaucrat contributes less that 1% of his salary, or $680.00 his last year of employment. To that, over the period of his career, the government will add more that twenty times as much. :twisted:
    Part 11 is Social Security, same as we all pay. He contributes 6.2% of his salary (Medicare is separate), and the government adds the same.
    Part 111 is an investment plan --in stocks, bonds, or government securities--to which he can contribute 5% of his salary. The government will match it dollar for dollar. Even if he decides to contribute nothing. Uncle Sam will pitch in 1% free of charge. :twisted:
     In all, the federal employee is putting is 12% of his gross paycheck if he takes full advantage of the plan. But the generous govenment is adding an additional 26.4% of his salary each year for his retirement. For the person making $85,000.00., it means a yearly taxpayer contribution of $22,440 to his retirement account. In fact, the ratio of government subsidy is much hugher for people who don`t take advantage of the 5% investment scheme. Then the retiree put in on 7% and the govenment still adds 21.4%, or three times as much.
   But, we might amment, the fify-five-year-old retiree is still to young to receive his Social Security benefit. Isn`t he? Wrong. The govenment pays him a shadow (SPECIAL SOCIAL SECURITY SUPPLEMENT), from its coffers from the time he`s fifty-five until he`s sixty-two, just as if he were older. :roll:
   So, in the case of Johyn Q. Bureaucrat, he`ll receive his $56,000.00 pension from the government, and get $55,000.00 more from his job,l then truly retire at age sixty-five. By then, $85,000.00 salary, and he`ll have a new pension from his second job, what is known in the trade as (DOUBLE DIPPING). By the time he`s sixty-five, his combined pension will be well over $100,000.00 a year. :eek:
   How much will Mr. Bureaucrat cost Uncle Sam in his retirement? Today a man of fifty five has a life expectancy of twenty-three years. Beginning with his $56,100.00 pension in 1993, and ending with his death in 2017, when his pension will have risen to $130,000.00 a year, the total cost of the retirement payout will be over $2 million, or $2,230,000.00 to be exact. :evil: (However, if the retiree is Mrs. Mildred Bureaucrat, who will live an additional four and a half years, the payout will be a half million dollars more).
    Let`s also take the case of a non-executive, a GS-10 who began as a GS-2 file clerk, and has risen to become secretary to a top officer, with a salary of $40,000.00 during her last year. She will retire at fifty-five with a pension of $28,000.00 and a total payout of $1.7 million.
   This year, retirement benefits for civilian government employees will cost $35 billion, plus another $22 billion for military people. Thats a lot of money, but it`s slated to get much worse.
    The government`s unfunded pension liability for federal employees is already $1.4 trillion. By the year 2000, the pension payout will be $80 billion a year and the liability up in the $3 trillion range. And that`s only the beginning.

WHAT CAN BE DONE? :twisted:
   Obviously the government has to stop this massive hemorrhaging by reducing the pension benefits by at least 30%, and returning the federal employees to the less-than-perfect world inhabited by the rest of us. That will save us $10 BILLION A YEAR.
   Oh, yes, Forget about that business of paying out Social Security benefits to government workers at age fifty-five, thats just not nice. :-
D  :-D  :-D

bullet maker :D
I like to make bullets, handload, shooting of all types, hunting, fishing, taking pictures, reading, grandchildren, 4 wheeling, eating out often.

Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2005, 09:30:51 AM »
Again, the Guv set itself up so that your boss has to send in your donation.
Unless we can convince every business / corporation to cease sending in your money, which they are required to do by LAW, their is no chance of shutting them down financially.
They also will effortlessly give themselves pensions, perks, and whatever else they want because, hey, they represent us and we want them to have more ! Yeah right. They get away with it because we are powerless to stop them.
Why would they ever vote less for themselves ?  What incentive do they have to do so ? Who is going to stop them ?
In a nutshell, we would all have to quit so the businesses and corporations would no longer have anybody to siphon tax money from.
It would take organization and very few would be willing.
Our founders fought a revolution to get away from taxation without representation, and cozily enough, we have so called representation that is willing to tax us into the poor house.
Now what say you ?

Ranger
"HAVE YOU HUGGED YOUR RIFLES TODAY ?!"

Offline Brett

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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2005, 12:17:13 PM »
I say sign me up for one of them Government jobs.  :mrgreen:
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Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2005, 12:54:04 PM »
Quote
Why would they ever vote less for themselves ? What incentive do they have to do so ? Who is going to stop them ?


We can. Together, if the country can pull its head from its rear end & vote with their brains instead of with their emotions.
I dont wanna hear about much from these guys anymore but whats in it for us, for our country, for the people that support our country.

They know people vote their heartd & not their heads, thats why they compaign the way they do, focusing on social problems & drugs, welfare & underage sex. All that is important but its not whats bringing us down.
Bulletmaker makes some good points & is on the right track about why our taxes are so high. We need realistic packages for Gov't employees for sure & a hole lot less of them. Think about how many presidents we are paying right now. How many jobs can you get for 4 years & collect a pension? We need to wake up quickly IMO.  :grin:
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2005, 06:11:12 PM »
What the heck does a millionaire, career politician, need a pension for?  I just don't get that.  It's sickening.
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Offline bullet maker

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« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2005, 04:05:51 AM »
Hey guy`s :D
   OK, here`s another civics class about our government that they won`t teach our kids, in school, or college, or want us taxpayers to know. :idea2:

   VICE PRESIDENT--No Longer Anonymous-----or Cheap

     Very Few Americans can recall the names of more than a half dozen Vice Presidents, if that many. The most famous ones were probably Aaron Burr (under Jefferson), Teddy Roosevelt (under Mckinley), and, of course, Harry Truman, the VP of all time, who served under FDR in his fourth term.
   Aside from being anonymous, most Vice Presidents had one other endearing quality--they didn`t cost much. :lol:  :agree:
    Harry was among the cheapest. He had a little office off the Senate floor, with three clerks, and he didn`t even have a Secret Service guard when he first took office. He, Bess, and daughter Margaret lived in an apartment house on Connecticut Avenue, where he paid the $140-a-month rent out of his $10,000 salary. :eek:
  My, how things have changed.----The Vice President now enjoys a near-royal life-style and a staff to fit. He has twenty-six employees (doing what?) and three offices--one in the White House, Harry Truman`s old place in the Senate, and a large suite in the Old Executive Office Building. He has more than one limousine, a Secret Service driver, in addition to an around-the-clock protection squad, and access to a giant Boeing 707, which automatically becomes Air Force Two when he boards it.
    No two-bedroom apartment for him. The Vice President lives in a large government-supported Victorian mansion on the grounds of the Naval Observatory in the District, which first became the Veep~s home under Walter Mondale in 1977. In addition to a housekeeper, who earns $50,000 a year, the Vice President has a crew of Navy men (on the Defense Department tab) who take care of his grounds. His salary is $160,600 a year. :eek: , and he receives a $90,000.00 entertainment allowance to use as he sees fit.
    Times have sure changed for America`s Veeps. All this costs some $5 million a year, which is not the cause of the national debt. But it`s a solid symptom.

    HARRY TRUMAN, WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU?



bullet maker :D
I like to make bullets, handload, shooting of all types, hunting, fishing, taking pictures, reading, grandchildren, 4 wheeling, eating out often.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2005, 06:47:14 AM »
$90,000.00 entertainment allowance!!! :evil:  Here I am hoping I will have enough dough on hand to take the wife and daughter to Sonny's BBQ or to Pizza Hut on saturday evening. :cry:
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