is the 280 rem. that bad?

[Mitch in MI]

Probably a typo..

That's why I figured I'd give it the benefit of the doubt instead of whipping this out:

[quickdtoo]

If it's a typo, it's consistent!

I have had back a 7mm-08 twice and not been real pleased with the accuracy in the .280. In fact, both are pitiful accuracy wise with every factory round I have shot (limited as that is).  
 
However, handloading improved performance greatly Using a very standard load of H4831 and Hornady 140 gr SST I get acceptable accuracy and about 3600 fps on my chrony.  
 
The key for my particular barrel and that particular bullet is the COAL of 3.355" which in my barrel puts the bullet 0.065" off the lands. I might get better performance a little closer but it works OK as is. I don't like the way the cut the rifling in either 7mm barrel but have a big bore I couldn't be happier with.  
 
There isn't anything wrong with the .280 but note, the SAMMI max is 5000 less than the .270 and 30-06. Most of the performance boost you will see is likely due to the extra 2-4" of barrel.

I waited a long time to get my 280 barrel.  12 weeks actually. I ordered mine the first time I sent the 7mm-08 in for repair. I like the simplicity of the action and a trigger job was an absolute must.  
 
Accuracy was pitiful out of both barrels with every kind of factory ammo I shot through it.  I'm talking 2-3" groups at 50 yards and 6 inch at 100.  Finally by handloading and setting the bullets considerably longer than the standard CAOL I was able to get both usable. I found that both calibers had very, very deep throats. I could push it closer to the lands and do better still I'm sure but both are serviceable.  
 
Last year I exterminated 1 coyote on the trot with the 7mm-08 and 3 does with the .280.  I don't like the way the .280 carries though and wish it had a barrel band so it wouldn't  go barrel down so much. None of the does ran more than 15 yards and all were hit clean. My .280 shoots at about 3600 fps w/Hornady 140 gran SST (same thing the 7mm-08 shoots) and makes a nice exit.  Overall, I like the .280 and 7mm-08.
 
If you hand load, try getting an overall case length gauge and check your throat depth on the barrel that doesn't shoot well. The smaller the diameter of the bullet, the more this matters. It may not be it but it could be.
 
I did get another barrel for this upcoming season and could not be happier.  It will easily shoot 3/8" group at 50 and 1" at 100. It carries well and thus far - is impressive.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=65577

[nomosendero]

I stated previously that I assume that this is a typo & I hope it is. However
quickdtoo pointed out it was done twice & that concerns me. I trust that
ridel will clear this up soon.

My gunsmith has built a bunch of 7STW's & what we have seen with those
is that with 28"-30" BARRELS you can very carefully get 3,500-3,600 FPS
with Nosler BT/Accubonds & that's the limit! This is using the Mod. 700
action.

[quickdtoo]

I don't like the way the .280 carries though and wish it had a barrel band so it wouldn't  go barrel down so much.

rldel, while you're explaining, tell us how a barrel band on the 280 would keep the barrel from going down so much. :?

Thx,

Tim

[Mitch in MI]

I believe he is saying the gun is too muzzle heavy for the stock sling swivel position. Since I always sling rifles muzzle down, I don't have a problem with it. If he put a barrel mount swivel stud on it, it would balance differently.

[kombi1976]

I hunt some rough grounds, generally in the mornings so I go in, in the dark and damp a lot of the time. I’d hate to split a barrel because I slipped and mud-plugged the barrel walking in and later forgot to clear it. At bare minimums I have to get the light out and look if not mess with it. I just carry all rifles muzzle up. It is a personal choice. It is what I do.

Why not use some sort of muzzle cover? :|
Just a rubber stopper of the right diameter for the bottom of chair legs would do the job to stop you filling the barrel full of mud accidentally.
You can paint it blaze orange to make sure you don't accidentally leave it on when you go to shoot. :wink:

[nomosendero]

I would still like to hear about the velocity.

[quickdtoo]

In bad weather, I've been covering the muzzle of my rifles, modern or smokepoles, with tape for years, never hurts accuracy or anything else for that matter, just blows a hole thru the tape. Started doing that about 35yrs ago after shooting at a spike elk with apparently some snow in the muzzle of my 30-06 rem 760, blew the front sight off and create a bulge where the front sight was.....didn't get the spike bull, either! The rifle became a carbine after that!! Duct tape or black electrical tape works, so does a balloon or a finger cot.

Tim

[nomosendero]

ridel
I am glad that you responded to my previous post & the statement I made. I believe in giving someone the benefit of a doubt. I still say this is
an unheard of velocity for the medium capacity .280 case.

I have a friend who is a very good Gunsmith that builds alot of 7mmSTW's. All of these have custom barrels that range from 27-30". In all
cases so far the max. loads with 140 Gr. Ball. Tips/Accubonds are running
3,500 to maybe 3,650 FPS. in these 7STW's!!! Let's look at the differences.
1. The barrels on the Custom guns are longer.
2. The actions are all Rem. Model 700. These are much stronger than New
    England Arms break-open actions with the one underlug. Don't get    
    your dander up gentlemen, I am a handi holic also but I hot rod my  
    bolt guns. I have seen that you can load fairly hot in the smaller cases
    like a .223 in these guns which is only logical.
3. The case capacity for the .280 is 68.58 grains of water & the capacity
    for the 7STW is 98.30 grains of water according to Barnes Bullets!!!!!!

I have a stack of reloading manuals, about all of the popular ones & I
have one (Nosler # 4) that shows 3,150FPS for a .280/140 with a 26" Lilja
& a Mod. 700 Action. Keep in mind that this is the very fastest in all of my
manuals. The most that I have outran the manuals is 200FPS & I am
currently doing this with a 25-06 but not really because my barrel is 2"
longer than the manuals which probably means about 100FPS different.

That brings about something else. You said that with your 270's you are
using that you see about a 300FPS Diff. in just 1" barrel difference. The
most that I have ever seen is about 150FPS in 2" with a overbore case.

It is not my intention to make light of your statements but you may need
to borrow a different chronograph & see if yours is faulty. To get 100-200
FPS over the norm is one matter which as I said I have only done once
in 30 years of reloading but 450-500FPS I do not understand.

I don't have a Handi-Rifle in 280 but my brother does. Hornady Light Mags
with the 139SST go 3,115 Average in this rifle & he is satisfied & has no
dies. I may talk him in to buying some & try your powder. I would like
to know your brand of brass & primers. Frankly, I do not expect over
3,200 tops!!

[nomosendero]

Superhornet
I may start loading for my brother's 280 Handi-Rifle soon. I know that the
A-Max is designed as a target bullet but  some are using the heavier for
caliber bullets like this one on Deer/Antelope & doing well. Have you done this?

[Mitch in MI]

I know that the A-Max is designed as a target bullet but  some are using the heavier for caliber bullets like this one on Deer/Antelope & doing well. Have you done this?

I'm not going to guess about the effectiveness of frangible heavy bullets on game, but I will say that my 162gr A-Max have "for use in 1 in 8" twist or faster" on the box.
When I got them (mail order, oops) I called Hornady, and a tech support rep told me that 1 in 10" at 3000 fps would be fine, 2800 fps would be marginal, and 2600 fps would not work. How fast are you planning to shove them in your brother's 280? It's likely that a book starting load will put the bullet sideways within 100 yards.

[nomosendero]

Mitch in Mi.
Thank you very much for that info! Because of the 26" tube I might
& that is only a maybe right now, be able to get 3,000 fps with this
bullet.
superhornet did not say he was getting this accuracy in a Handi-rifle
nor his velocities but I assume he was talking about a handRifle.

[Mitch in MI]

Because of the 26" tube I might & that is only a maybe right now, be able to get 3,000 fps with this bullet.

Somebody here reports 2975 or so with factory rem 150s. 2900 should be easier to achieve, and probably stable.
I'm fairly confident that I can hit 3000, but I might have to use my 40 degree 280 AI reamer to get it.

[Mac11700]

No, it is no typo. Very Happy
 
I have measured 3600 fps out of the 26” barrel using H4831SC. Yes H4895 is relatively faster than ‘31SC. I also use H4198 which is faster yet. Each is selected for a class of calibers and uses. And yes, technically, the Hornady .284 SST isn’t 140 grains it is 139. I’ll get the Hornady part number if you need it.

 
A rule of thumb in reloading my friend...anytime you achieve a noticeable amount of velocity increase over a published verified load...something is wrong.and needs further investigating before shooting anymore.....to gain 400 fps over the 7mm Remington Ultra Mag...with the same bullet using roughly 30 grains less powder...come-on...if you honestly believe that  your trying to kid yourself...if you keep insisting that your velocities are accurate..then I would be calling who-ever manufactured your chronograph  and complain. because...it  would be a physical impossability to get 600-700 FPS faster than the max loads in the 280 that are listed...Send your chronograph in...cause it isn't happening..to get that kind of velocity your loads would be above the proof loads....call Hodgdons...they will tell you... heck...send them some of your ammo if you don't believe me...I'm sure they would love to test it...
 
Mac

[mjbgalt]

quick, you reminded me with your "finger cot" comment...


a guy i know told me years ago that he puts condoms on his rifles, and after we got done making fun of him and making the obligatory jokes about reproductive rifles (lol) he explained why and it did make sense.

i just told him that he better hope that bullet goes right through the rubber because if the ranger checks in his deer and it has a condom sticking out of the bullet hole in the side of the deer he will have a whole new world of charges brought against him lol.

that was a great laugh...thanks for reminding me.


-Matt

[safetysheriff]

No, it is no typo.  

My brother and I shoot a .270. Saving time and space I’ll say his rifle with approximately 1 longer inch on the barrel runs 3300 fps to my 3000 fps. We can swap our hand loads around and they still produce that speed in each gun. The difference between Ooo and Aaa can be as little as an inch.

.

I have read in a few places that a 'fast' barrel -  of 24" length for example - can actually be 200 to 400 fps faster than a 'slow barrel - of 24" length for example.    I am inclined to believe it, but can't speak from experience because I don't own a chronograph.    I probably never will bother with one.    But I'd bet that at www.long-range.com they'd be able to speak to the difference in velocities between fast and slow barrels.  

Your comparing your rifle with your brothers has nothing to do with a 1" difference in length of those barrels.    It has everything to do with the finish of the lands and grooves, the consistency of their diameters along the length of the barrels, etc.etc.etc.    

ss'

[Mac11700]

If your going to stand by your chrony's velocity being correct...then I'll say that I do not believe you in getting 3600 fps out of a Handi 280 26" barrel without pushing the bullets to the proof load levels.I've been reloading to long to utterly fall for that BS of accounting for your outragous claims of this velocity due to your barrel being one of the fast ones...100fps...maybe...and this would be stretching my beliefs to the max...to say that your getting higher velocities than the 7mm Remington Ultra mag...7mm Weatherby mag...7mm STW...with 30-40 grains less powder...no way...period...You say it is what it is...I say BS...sorry if that offends you...but...it is what it is...

Mac

[nomosendero]

Mac11700

I think you would agree with me that I tried to be diplomatic in the previous posts in this thread. This is why I actually went into more detail
than necessary to make my point. This left only one other possibility, a
faulty chronograph. But now that I see that this will not be  considered, then I have to say like you that this is a crock! I was tempted to ignore this & go on, but I would hate to see a novice shooter/handloader buy a 280 handi-rifle to achieve this velocity & discover he can't even approach this. I believe it is our responsibility!

[Mac11700]

I agree...as I stated to begin with as well...the 280 Remington...isn't a 7MM Mag...or any of the hotter magnum loadings...and this is pure fantasy to even suggest that you could load safely to approach those levels...I've been reloading for many many many years...and I have had what was considerd a "Fast barrel"...and this was in 270...but...at no-time did it approach these velocity levels...and it too was a 26" barrel.....and I was cautioned to triple check everything when I was chronagraphing it...and this was just shy of 100 fps faster...so...as has been stated by numerous rifle magazine writers and countless others...there is no magic bullet or 280 Handi barrel that will give this much for so little powder charge...period...and to try to achieve it is dangerous...

Mac

PS:...ridel;

I just got off the phone with John at Hodgdons tech line...and he said

That's impossible....something is screwy...chronaghraph to close...or giving false readings...and if you did actually load a 280 to give this velocity...you would only do it ONCE

.....like I said earlier...give them a call...they would like to hear from you...913-362-9455

Mac

[quickdtoo]

Hmmm, no comment from Ridel??? :roll:
 
Tim

[Mac11700]

NO...but he changed his post over on a different thread to sound more plausible...I wonder if he's going to come back and edit all his post...?

Mac

[FirstFreedom]

Hey, give the guy a break, will ya?  He just cannot afford a decent chrony.  His 'chronograph' is probably his buddy trying to hit a stopwatch twice real quick as he watches the bullet go by, then doing some math.  :-D  Seriously, since he seems to believe it, it was probably the chrony taking a reading of the muzzle blast.

[quickdtoo]

Yeah, he's got a bunch of believers in the Handloading forum, too.... :roll:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=66831

Tim