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Offline kb

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Scale may be off
« on: March 13, 2005, 09:13:36 AM »
I have a feeling that my scale may be off, but I don't have a weight set to check it.  What can I use to verify if all is OK?  
 
What is the weight of a penny, nickle, dime, and a quarter.  These are pretty consistent,...yes?
 
Thanks,
 
Kb
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Offline Chuck White

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Scale may be off
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2005, 09:58:08 AM »
I keep a 1 ounce, 12 gauge slug on the shelf next to my scale and check my scale with it every once in a while! You could use bullets to check your scale!

If it comes up to 437.5 grains, I know it's right on!  If it's off a "sliver", I don't worry to much about it!  I allow maybe .5 grains variation!  I know that the slug is right, because I have checked that same slug on several of my friends scales!  

I don't know what makes the precision scale checking weights so darn expensive!
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Offline savageT

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Re: Scale may be off
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2005, 10:03:05 AM »
Quote from: kb
I have a feeling that my scale may be off, but I don't have a weight set to check it.  What can I use to verify if all is OK?  
 
What is the weight of a penny, nickle, dime, and a quarter.  These are pretty consistent,...yes?
 
Thanks,
 
Kb


Reaching into my pocket with no cleaning I get these results:
penny: 38.4 gr new; 49.9 gr. old
nickle: 77.3 gr
dime: 34.7 gr (most consistant)
quarter: 85.8 gr
Again, these are well used coins, but the dimes of the four I weighed, 3of the 4 were 34.7 grams.

Jim
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Offline mountainview

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Scale may be off
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2005, 10:05:03 AM »
Kb,

I would not count on them being consistent for a bunch of reasons. The stakes are too high IMO when reloading to trust anything other than a validated check weight of known weight. The cost of a set of check weights is worth it when you balance it against the cost of an inaccurate charge. You might even be able to get them at a discount at a local science/school surplus store in your locale which is what I did.

Safe loading.
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Offline Racepres

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Scale may be off
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2005, 12:59:26 PM »
I have check weights. But, I know that my "pan" weighs 117.6 gr... after that a decent quality bullet from any major mfg will come up near perfect .... weighing a 40 grain bullet makes more sense to me than a 50 gram checkweight.... $0.02&1/2   marty
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Offline Leftoverdj

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Scale may be off
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2005, 09:11:03 PM »
Yeah, weigh the heaviest bullet you have around and compare it against its nominal weight.  If the scale weight is within 1% of nominal, you are good to go. You wanna be fussy about it, weigh a range of bullets, say 50, 100, 200, and 300 grains.

Iffen a one percent error matters to you, you are loading WAAAAAAAAAAY too hot. Humidity changes can affect powder weight more than that.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Scale may be off
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2005, 01:54:42 AM »
If I thought mine was off I would buy a weight set or a new scale. I have a Lyman scale and a RCBS electronic scale. The RCBS came with a weight set so I can calibrate it. But I do double check one agents the other.  :D
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Offline ricciardelli

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Scale may be off
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2005, 03:16:48 AM »
The easiest and cheapest way to "calibrate" your scale is to get a couple of competition grade bullets.

The Sierra .224 52 grain HPBT, Sierra .243 107 grain HPBT, would be my two choices.

Then simply place the bullet which weighs closest to your desired powder charge in the pan.  If it reads 52 grains with the 52 grain bullet, the scale is balanced.  If it reads 107 grains with the 107 grain bullet, the scale is balanced.

They don't have to be Sierra, but they must be competition grade.
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Offline kb

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Scale may be off
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2005, 04:07:13 AM »
I have found that bullets do seem to vary in weight, and I have to travel to go buy some 'scale weights'.  Plus they are just too expensive.  I was thinking that coins were a good measure, but in retrospect, thinking of the wear on them..

Maybe the newer ones would be more consistant.

I dont load to the published max. of any of my calibers, but would like to see if what Im loading is close to what I think it is.

Thanks for the suggestions, if you have anymore ideas, Im looking foward to seeing them.

kb
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Offline Questor

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Scale may be off
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2005, 04:47:06 AM »
Why do you think the scale is inaccurate?

Has it taken an impact or a crushing force?  Is it a good quality scale? Do you think it is off by as much as a grain, or by some tenths of a grain?

So far, Ricciardelli's suggestion is the best. Although, using any good quality jacketed bullet will be a good initial test just to see if the scale is approximately correct.  Using a match airgun pellet would be a good choice too because of the light weight involved, and because weights are given to the half grain.

If it's a good quality scale, call the manufacturer's tech support line to see if they have a procedure for calibrating it.
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Offline kb

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Scale may be off
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2005, 01:19:50 PM »
I actually have two scales.  One a newer RCBS, and the other an older Lymans.  Both are beam (non electronic), and measure approx 2-3 grains apart.  

I would tend to trust the RCBS because it is newer, but I would like to be sure of my weights.

I dont load hot, but would still like to know what weights Im using.

Thanks again,

kb
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Offline Duffy

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Scale may be off
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2005, 07:56:58 PM »
On the beam type scales make sure the bearing surfaces are clean and free of dust. They are the V shaped jewels that the beam balances on. Any amount of dust or crud will mess up the accuracy.  I use a Q-tip and wipe them clean and make sure there's no cotton threads in there either. Also make sure the knife edges on the beam are clean and not damaged. I also have a old Lyman and a RCBS and they will both give the same readings.
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Offline Questor

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Scale may be off
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2005, 03:57:54 AM »
Now you've got me paranoid about my own scale. Judging by the velocities I get with my loads, it must be pretty close to perfect. I've resolved to make a standard weight by which to periodically test it though. I've settled on some very consistent match pellets because my charges tend to be pistol charges of 25 grains or less.
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Offline ricciardelli

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Scale may be off
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2005, 10:01:29 AM »
Quote from: kb
I have found that bullets do seem to vary in weight, kb


Well, you forced me to do it!

I took the covers off my RCBS 5-0-2, RCBS 5-0-5 and RCBS 10-10 scales.

I broke out a box of .224 Sierra 52 grain HPBT bullets and weighed each one on each scale...

What did I find?

All three scales read exatly the same, and the range of bullet weights was between 51.9 grains and 52.0 grains, with 92 of them weighing 52.0 grains!

Now, if you ask me, that is pretty damn good, but then I really don't find a 0.19% error all that  critical in reloading.

So them I took a box of .284 Sierra 168 grain HPBT bullets and did the same.  Guess what I found?  weights ranged form 167.9 to 168.1 grains with 90 of them at exactly 168 grains!

Just in case you are interested the lot # of the .224 bullets is 2051938, and the lot # of the .284 bullets is 128314.
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Offline Questor

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Scale may be off
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2005, 08:43:31 AM »
Ricciardelli:

I did a similar thing with various 44 magnum bullets a few years ago and, with these 240 grain bullets, I too had a variation of only 1/10 grain plus or minus.  I did the same measurement more recently with some 200 grain swaged 45ACP bullets from Star and they too varied .1+/-.

Then I tried it with some 6.5mm 120gr Nosler BTs and, you guessed it, .1+/-

He's talking about 3 full grains difference.
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Offline ricciardelli

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Scale may be off
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2005, 12:03:27 PM »
Quote from: Questor
Ricciardelli:

He's talking about 3 full grains difference.


Well, all 3 of my scale weighed exactly the same, and the 5-0-2 is probably around 35, or more, years old.

Either he has dirty knives, dirty pivots or has not "zeroed" his scales properly.
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Offline kb

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Scale may be off
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2005, 11:30:46 PM »
After sitting down and extensively weighing many bullets, I found that the RCBS 505 is closer to what I think is the more accurate scale.
 
I weighed some 150 grain 270's and they all ran from 149.8 to 150.3, a .5 grain variation.
 
The Lyman scale is definitely off.  If I cant fix it, I will toss it.  It is an older scale anyway.
 
Thank you for all your suggestions, and help.
 
 
kb
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Offline smokey66

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Scale may be off
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2005, 04:19:14 PM »
kb, before ya toss that scale..toss it my way..i'll pay the shipping.... :grin:
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Offline Tad Houston

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Scale may be off
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2005, 04:24:32 PM »
Before i buy an expensive scale check weight set, could i get one of you guys to mail me an assortment of pre-weighed bullets? I would be happy to pay the shipping and cost of the bullets.

Thanks, Tad :D
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Offline Glanceblamm

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Scale may be off
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2005, 06:11:32 PM »
I agree and has been my experience that most of the (name) bullets are right on the money as far as weight goes. I do have another option which is to take bullets to work & place them in a high dollar gram scale then convert the grams to grains.
You might not have access to a gram scale but probably know someone who does. I run these numbers on a calculator but also think that this conversion is listed in loading manuals.
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