Lead and Tin melting temperatures

[ShortStake]

Gents and Madams,

Most everyone associated with Black Powder Cartridge Rifle shooting casts their own lead/tin bullets.

Many find surplus lead/tin mixtures of unknown proportions.  Such as wheel weights, cable sheathing, plumbers lead, etc.  After the budget priced accumulation finds it's way to the melting pot, many are devoid of the knowledge used to establish the lead/tin ratio.

Am at a loss as to where this long ago accumulated information was derived?  But it has served me well in answering the lead/tin percentage questions.

Lead/Tin by weight:

nine parts lead/one part tin melts at 563 degrees F.
eight parts lead/two parts tin melts at 529 degrees F.
seven parts leadthree parts tin melts at 504 degrees F.
six parts lead/four parts tin melts at 464 degrees F.
five parts lead/four parts tin melts at 428 degrees F.
four parts lead/six parts tin melts at 374 degrees F.
three parts lead/seven parts tin melts at 365 degrees F.

The following two entries are correct!

two parts lead/eight parts tin melts at 392 degrees F.
one part lead/nine parts tin melts at 421 degrees F.

For those that have lead/tin/antimony alloys, the melting temperature for antimony is 1166 degrees F.

Lead melts at 621 degrees F.
Tin melts at 450 degrees F.

All temperatures have rounded off to the nearest degree.

Perhaps the math wizards can add to this information.

[Omaha Poke]

Shortstake, interesting post   One thing you left out however is what the melting temp of antimony that has already been alloyed is.  Such as in wheel weights, linotype, etc, when added to lead/tin alloys?  

I know that is not an easy question, and am not trying to put you on the spot.  Just thought if you know the answer, it would be worth reading.  Thanks, Randy

[Ray Newman]

ShortStake: considering the scenario you described 'bout collecting & melting scrap/junk metals, would it be better to buy a lead hardness tester & then duplicate the hardness of a known alloy that shoots well & doesn't lead?

[ShortStake]

Ray,

Welcome back to the BPCR world. Here's to your continued good health.

My SAECO/Redding lead hardness tester is still shiny and resides in it's factory box.  Reason being all the serious reading I've done over the past 45 years on lead/tin/antimony mixtures (Lyman, American Rifleman, etc) are tough to correlate to the hardness scales.

The American Lead Institute has numbers assigned for lead wheel weights manufactured here in the land of scrap tire piles.  From what can be gleaned from the Internet all previous knowledge concerning wheel weights has been negated by the importation of foreign vehicles which may have wheel weights containing NO lead, tin or antimony.  The world of scrap lead that existed ten years ago and the knowledge of same has/is very rapidly changing.

Here in the Land of Enchantment the local tire merchandisers are still  willing to dispose of scrap wheel weights.  Those that I've acquired in the past few years can be sorted into three piles;  the old fashioned clip on type wheel weights we all grew up seeing and using, the stick on type (which are usually pure lead) and then the third pile is "Hmmmm, I don't know?

Being close to Mexico, the scrap lead in this area can still be lead pipe and  cable sheathing (watch the wiped joints---don't know what that stuff is?).  

If any serious bullet casters are acquainted with older telephone company employees they surely know of some pure lead sources within their network.

As to whether or not your question concerning comparisons of lead hardness has an honest answer.............  I'm not sure?

With our world being soooooo OSHA conscience and the various ANSI and ASTM requirements in manufacturing that apply to lead products the future sources of lead look to be slim and slimmer........

Stay healthy.

[Lead pot]

ShortStake

this is a very good refference site for bullet casting

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Kurt

[Ray Newman]

ShortStake-- thanks for kind words.

I never was able to cast well w/ wheel weights (WW). As you stated, the Caster just doesn't know their composition. Numerous yrs. ago, I gave up WW after fluxing, cleaning & casting into ingots up 'bout 25# of WW. I had just enough metal left to make a thin ingot, & after it cooled, I accidentally dropped it --it broke into two pieces! I checked the other ingots & they were all brittle & rock hard. Gave the whole batch to a fisherman for sinkers.

I do know a few Shooters (or Alchemists?) who can get WW the cast well & shoot very competitively. I just don't know their secret.

I now buy clean/virgin lead & tin from a metal dealer & mix my own--have control over the alloy that way. Not exactly cheap, but considering the cost of BPCR, the cost such metal is relatively economical....

[ShortStake]

Ray,

We seem to have similar experiences with wheel weights.

Perusal of the various shooting/BPCR websites one can always find someone who regales others about their ability to shoot high antimony content lead bullets.  My rifle experiences have been with those having deep rifling made especially for cast lead/tin bullets.  Bullets with antimony don't like to fill out the lands of the deep rifling.  

Have known a number of bullet casters in my travels and most produced  strictly handgun bullets.  Virtually all casters start out without a thermometer (budget constraints/thrift/just plain poor) and easily run the melting pot full blast at maximum temperatures, unaware that the tin is being vaporized.

The website Lead Pot referred to is great information, but dated and excludes most of today's available scrap lead combinations.  It especially addresses handgun bullets and NOT those that are in common use with BPC Rifles.  Walking around trying to find scrap lead, linotype, plumber's lead, cable sheathing and lead plate battery residue is no longer common.  The larger the community, the more difficult the situation.  

We live in a nation of laws and rules.  The OSHA, ANSI and other unified rules pertinent to lead and lead mix products are serious business in industry and should be thought of in a like manner whether one lives in the heart of a large city or out in barren prairie or desolate mountains.  It all boils down to known health hazards.  Many of which bullet casters schrug away as meaningless.

Folks seem to pick and choose what laws/rules they want to comply with or ignore.

[muzzleloader73]

hello,  anybody know if lead sheathing which is used around chimney's is pure lead?  would it maybe have zinc in it? thanks

[ShadowMover]

hello,  anybody know if lead sheathing which is used around chimney's is pure lead?  would it maybe have zinc in it? thanks

Are you referring to the sheet lead used as a roofing material? It is generally pretty thin and very pliable. If you can scratch it with a fingernail, I'll bet it's lead. The only zinc would be the galvanized (zinc coated) steel. It would be magnetic.

[dodd3]

muzzleloader73 dont no about the us sheet lead but here in australia sheet lead is 99.9pure lead.i get mine for free, a subcontractor where i work gets it of the building sites he gose to to service the windows the company makes he picks up the ofcuts that the roof plumbers drop and every friday gives it to me som times as much as 30lbs i just mix tin with it to get my 20to1 mix and use it as is for the muzzeloaders.all he asks is i cast some fishing weights for him not a bad trade.
bernie