Author Topic: .17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow  (Read 2502 times)

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Offline victorcharlie

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« on: March 15, 2005, 09:25:45 AM »
Up to this point, all I have done with the Savage BVSS is punch paper, and have not had a bad group with either the 17 grain nor the 20 grain bullets, with most groups in the 3/4" range at a hundred yards.  I also haven't noticed a huge POI change when shifting back and forth between the two.    The rifle now wears a Bushnell 4200 Elite 4 X 16 from Jon at the optic zone, and I shimmed the trigger with .025 shim stock front and rear, as well as cutting a couple of coils off the trigger spring which resulted in a clean breaking trigger around the 3 to 4 pound range.  Hard to tell without a gauge, but I'm very happy with the trigger as it's much better than it was.
 
A group of crows decided to molest the bird feeder the other day, and now think better than to try again.  My wife has a couple of bird feeders on the place, one about a hundred yards from the house near the barn.  I looked out the window and had a dozen or so crows feeding on the ground below it......well, I had been waiting to try the hummer on something other than paper......anyway, I had the rifle zeroed for 100 yards with the 20 grain Hornady XTP and the range to the crows was with in a yard or so of a hundred.  Perfect!   Opened the window, put the front bag on the window seal, then the forearm on the bag, zoomed the scope up to 12 power or so...placed the cross hairs dead center of the bird, .took a deep breath and while exhaling slowly squeezed the trigger......... Yes, I was able to  watch the whole episode through the scope!
 
I hit the crow with the 20 grain pill near center but slightly low.  The 20 grain XTP passed straight through the crow, doing very little damage, ricochetted off the ground and knocked a hole through a 1/2" pine fence board about 10 inches high on the fence which was roughly 8 feet beyond the crow.  It looks like the bullet expanded as it passed through the board and removed a quarter sized hunk of wood from the back.   I spread the bird out and it measured 34" from wing tip to wing tip, and 18 inches from the tip of the beak to the tip of the tail......I left him out hoping to get another shot when the crows came back to preach his funeral.......something made off with him in the middle of the night, not a feather to be found in the morning.  Darn.....no chance at a second one!
 
I had heard of the destructive nature of the little .17 on small varmits and decided that the 20 grain would be the way to go on larger varmits but was suprised that the 20 grain bullet didn't vaporize the crow....something that my .243 and 85 grain BTHP's always do....  I really wanted the hummer because of a lowered chance of ricochet but that doesn't look like the case with the 20 grain Hornady XTP.  I see no reason to believe the 20 grain XTP wouldn't be a fair yote load,as penetration doesn't seem to be problem.  I have, however, zeroed with the .17 grain bullet, and will be using them on any future crows....  
 
Also, for those in need of ammo, I stopped by Dicks sporting goods today and picked up 4 boxes of CCI 17 grain for $6.98 a box......I also stopped by Walley World and priced the same ammo at $9.48....Lowest prices every time.....Yaa....right!  
 
So far, I really like the .17 HMR but have not used it enough on game to learn it's effectiveness......There are many posts on several forums with a mixed bag on game the size of a coyote....some claim certain death.....others wouldn't use it at all.........certainly accurate enough......The 20 grain XTP would be my choice at this point......now if I can just get one of those willey wascal yotes in range.......I'd sure give the hummer a try...... just to see which side is correct......I'm betting the hummer with the 20 grain XTP will do the job just fine.......after all, as is said here on Greybeard by someone......dead is dead!
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
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Offline Keith L

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2005, 02:00:43 PM »
The 17 grain bullets are far more explosive than the 20s.  When you hit a corw with them you get a black cloud.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline mjbgalt

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2005, 03:04:55 PM »
yep  :-)  :-)  :-)

I love my HMR too. I can remember shooting AT groundhogs at 75 yards with my 22 and seeing them walk away. Not cool.

I can't wait until spring so I can get the hummer ready and put their lights out at 150 yards.

I am amazed at the accuracy too. It almost does it for you.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline ice

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2005, 05:47:57 AM »
If your looking for explosive action on small critters with little chance of ricochet, use the seventeen grainer with "ballistic tip".

Offline Lawdog

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2005, 10:04:38 AM »
The 20 gr. .17 HMR has been tried on coyotes and it makes for a great “wounder”.  I saw my friend(a state contract hunter) try them on five different coyotes we called in and we ended up having to track four that were shot in the chest(one was a head shot), loosing three due to non-existent blood trails.  No exit wounds on the two we did get.  The .17 may be a great cartridge for pest control but not on animals over 15 pounds.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline victorcharlie

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2005, 01:18:35 PM »
Lawdog, what range were the coyote's?.........There are conflicting stories on success with a .17 HMR......, but I find you the most credible...........I admit, not much there to hit em with..........I also admit I haven't tried it on anything other than a crow.....hardly makes me an expert on the subject of coyotes and the .17HMR.........problem is, in this state, predator hunting at night is rimfire only, and no electronic calls at night.......that doesn't leave much, other than the 22 mag.......or 22lr.......I've never had good accuracy in a 22mag..........the reduced chance of ricochette is what I really like about the round........seems they keep squeezing more people into less space around these parts.......
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Offline Lawdog

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2005, 11:19:43 AM »
Quote from: victorcharlie
Lawdog, what range were the coyote's?.........There are conflicting stories on success with a .17 HMR......, but I find you the most credible...........I admit, not much there to hit em with..........I also admit I haven't tried it on anything other than a crow.....hardly makes me an expert on the subject of coyotes and the .17HMR.........problem is, in this state, predator hunting at night is rimfire only, and no electronic calls at night.......that doesn't leave much, other than the 22 mag.......or 22lr.......I've never had good accuracy in a 22mag..........the reduced chance of ricochette is what I really like about the round........seems they keep squeezing more people into less space around these parts.......


The farthest one out was just over 60 yards.  The rest were around 45 yards.  The one that was shot in the chest that we recovered the bullet slipped between the ribs and blew up in the lungs.  We followed her through with our scopes(hoping to get a second shot) for over 200 yards when she went into a grove of manzanita where we found her laying under a bush.  We were curious as to what the bullet did so we opened her up and found the bullet fragmented upon entering the lungs.  Maybe if they make a heavier, stronger bullet or Barnes were to come out with something like their TSX bullet in a .17 20 gr. version then using the .17 HMR on heavier game it might be a different story.  Until they do I just don’t believe the .17 HMR is suitable for game over 15 pounds.  With your state laws getting in the way you might try the new loads they are coming out with for the .22 WMR.  The new 33 gr. AccuTip-V load from Remington is giving me great accuracy out of my .22 WMR Ruger 77/22M.  I have only shot one coyotes with it so far(keep grabbing my Hornet for calling) and it worked just fine.  But one coyote doesn't qualify as a good test son I will try it again and see what happens.  .Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline victorcharlie

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2005, 01:46:07 PM »
Thanks Lawdog.......The sun was out bright today with temps in the low 70's......a huge snapper laid floating in my pond catching the first good rays of the season........confident that he was the master in these waters.............Those snappers are hard on my ducks, and recently took the head off a sand hill crane.....Had a few ducks loose legs to the beasts.......I've been worried about my beagles getting in the pond......I think I have them all cleaned out now.......got 6 last year, this is the first one this year........head as big as my fist......probably 30 pounds or more........
 
....I love the accuracy of the .17........head shot at 85 or so yards........I've never gotten the destruction of the 17 grain hollow point with a 22lr for sure.......I've never been able to pick the spot with a .22lr at ranges much beyond 50 yards..........I did this time......I put one through the turtles eye and out the other eye at 85 yards....took the top of it's head off........man....like shooting ground hogs with a really nice varmit rifle........puts em where you want em........ one shot....one kill......
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
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Offline quickdtoo

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2005, 04:03:51 PM »
Yotes, bad dogs and bobcats with the 17hmr at RFC...

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88676
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Offline jh45gun

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2005, 04:42:57 PM »
Not saying that a 17 may kill larger critters but I think a lot of folks just have to JUSTIFY them saying they can do it even though there are better calibers for it. The 22 mag is Large for its size it kills animals it really should not be able to. I just do not think the 17 can do that. And even a 22 mag is marginal for some tough medium size critters unless you hit them just right. I still say the 17 is for smaller animals. Crows, Prarrie dogs ect. No I never shot one I have no interest to buy seeing what my 22's and 22 mag does gives me some idea what the small 17 will do and it sounds to me from what I have read you use the light bullet it blows up and does not penetrate well you use the heavier one and you get full penitration. A lot of folks consider the 22 mag marginal for yotes so with that thinking I just do not think the 17 is up to it unless the shot is perfect and at close range. Even then you are doing the animal a injustice if YOU screw up. If I was to hunt yotes I would use a centerfire. I may try one if all I had was my 22 mag but the shot would have to be perfect and not a long distance either. Sadly I think the more folks like me that post it is not a good idea to shoot larger animals with a 17 may promp guys who have them to do so kinda like See I told you I could do it. Not a good reason to maybe cripple a animal.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Keith L

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2005, 09:35:40 PM »
17HMR can take an average shooter and give them a tool to do sub half inch groups at 100 yards.  While a 22 mag may be accurate enough for hunting the loads avaialbe for them with one exception are not capable of extreme accuracy.  

If you give some folks that kind of accuracy they will try to take anything with it, thinking that shot placement is the most important thing.  To a degree they are right.

I don't bother with Rimfire Central following the posting of taking lots of game to large to even attempt taking iwth a 17HMR.  One poster claimed to have taken a bear with the little pill.  And another claimed to have taken a feral goat in New Zeeland with one.  Even if that is true all I think that type of post does is encourage poor choices when deciding what to use. RFC moderators fortunately removed the posts discussing using the 17HMR on crack cocaine addicts and those fighting against us in Iraq.

For those who are thinking I am against 17HMRs I have two rifles and a pistol chambered in it.  I have the same numbers chambered in 22Mag.  
and I am in the camp of thinking the 22Mag is light for yotes and larger.  I have center fire for that.  

I think all these chamberings are neat.  They have a purpose.  And to be a humane hunter we should match the ammo to the shot.  If all I had one of my HMRs with me and came across a yote in the chickens I would sure use it to kill or drive it off.  If I was going out to yote hunt I wold take at least my new .204 of not something larger
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Offline Flash

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2005, 01:24:40 AM »
I think I'm going to try the 20 grain bullets. I got two boxes of the 17's for squirrel hunting and they do way too much damage.
What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger!

Offline Keith L

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2005, 04:18:29 AM »
on my Savage poi changed about 2 inches with the 20 grain bulletd requiromg a rezero.  the groups also opened up to a little over an inch.  I think it was because the hollowpoints were hanging up and not feeding cleanly and I may have damaged a few when chambering them.  On my TC contender rifle and pistol the 20 grain loads required no rezeroing and groups stayed small.
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Offline victorcharlie

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2005, 06:55:44 AM »
Same here, the 20 grain and the 17 grain are very close in POI......no rezero required on my rifle.......  
 
Guys, I'd prefer to use a bigger cal on yotes myself.....and will during the daylight hours when centerfires are legal.......The prime use for my .17 is varmits close to the house or barn, where, over the years, the suburbs have approached to the point that a .17 HMR and the 17 grain bullet cause me less concern........not no concern, but less concern......than the range of a mile on a 22lr.........

Again, state law prohibits centerfire's at night.......that leaves the shotgun and the rimfires.........I wasn't trying to open a debate on the killing power of the hummer...........but ya have to use what you can.......and I like the accuracy of the hummer over the extra energy of the 22 mag.......
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Keith L

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.17 HMR and 20 gn. Hornady XTP on Crow
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2005, 07:19:38 AM »
I mentioned on the Drillings and Combo guns forum that a clerk in a gun store i frequent told me he has a 12 gauge by 30 06 over/under that he uses for yotes.  He uses 00 buck in the shotgun barrel.  That is an option but is not all that safe in a suburban area, the big pellets will go quite a ways.  It also doesn't do much good for the pelts.

17HMR/22MAG  I like them both.  I also like my centerfire guns.  Just need more time to use them all.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin