Author Topic: 357 Questions  (Read 1637 times)

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Offline Specklebelly

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357 Questions
« on: March 16, 2005, 02:59:35 PM »
I am interested in a 357 and noticed they don't come in automatics.  Why?

Also, I know they fit, but does it cause any damage to your gun to shoot 38 specials through the 357?

Thx
Specklebelly

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Offline caygeon

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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2005, 03:21:49 PM »
Hi :D
The case for a .357 Mag  is made for a revolver not an automatic but Glock makes a .357 Sig,About the same power level.You can shoot .38's out of a .357 no problem there less powerful, But not the other way around .357 don't fit in a .38 gun and if they did it's quite possible for it to blow up (Ka-Boom :cry: ).

Offline Iowegan

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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2005, 03:26:25 PM »
There are a few 357 Semi-autos on the market. Desert Eagle for one. There are two reasons why you don't see many 357s in autoloaders: the cartridge is pretty intense for an autoloader and the rimmed cases don't feed well. Semi-autos use a rimless case that fits in a magazine and feeds better.

Revolvers use rimmed cases so they will extract better from a cylinder.
GLB

Offline CB900F

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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2005, 05:41:37 PM »
Iowegan;

As for shooting .38's, it's perfectly possible of course.  However, there are a couple of points for your consideration.  One, shooting 38's will eventually cause a build-up of powder residue at the step at the front of the cylinder.  You may not be able to seat a .357's longer case if that build-up isn't attended to.  Two, the way around that problem is to either reload .38 spec rounds in .357 cases, or find a mild-mannered .357 factory ammunition.

900F
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Offline Zcarp2

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To get a 357 in a semi auto
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2005, 05:49:21 PM »
look at the 38 supers, 9 x 23 mm or other high speed cartridges.  I'd have to pull the books to find a specific answer.  But to get a .357" bullet at those velocities, this is the place to start.  Now, how heavy do you want the bullets?  I have shot a 158 gr LSWC out of a 9mm case at about 850 fps.  Had feeding issues that can be overcome.  I was shooting for a 38 special in a 1911 style gun.  Easy to shoot too!
Zcarp2

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Offline TScottO

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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2005, 06:44:32 PM »
The 357 magnum was also chamberd in a gun called "Coonan". I don't believe they are in production anymore. These guns resemble 1911.

Be Safe,
Scott

Offline Savage

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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2005, 01:01:47 AM »
How bout a 10mm? Sorta between the .357 and the .41 mags.
Savage
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Offline Greybeard

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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 02:03:39 AM »
If you want a semiauto .357 Mag then take a look at the .357 Sig. It was designed to duplicate the ballisitics of the .357 Mag and do it in an auto loader. It does exactly that quite satisfactorily when looking at today's .357 Mag performance level. It's not equal to the old original .357s that were still being loaded when I started shooting the round tho.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Mikey

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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2005, 04:28:19 AM »
Specklebelly:  If you want the defensive capabilities of the 357 magnum with a lightweight hollowpoint or softnose, the 357 Sig or the 38 Super or the 9x23 are excellent choices and those cartridges are on par with the 357 magnum in the  125 grain bullet weight range.

If you want the 357 for anything heavier you should go with a revolver.  The next step uo the line, especially in an autoloader, would be the 10mm.  

I fired one of the Coonan 357 semi-autos with full house 158 grn loads once and compared it to a hot loaded 10mm.  The 357 was way to snappy and difficult to bring to bear for the 2nd shot.  Not so with the 10mm.  A 357 magnum in a semi-auto is more of a novelty than a functional practicality.  Sometimes they can get finicky and that's not what you need or want in any sort of a field or defensive piece.

Also, constant use of 38 specials in the 357 magnum may leave you with a lead ring buildup in your chambers that will rpevent a full length 357 from properly chambering.  I really need to make sure the chambers on my 357 are clean enough after shooting up a bunch of 38 spls so that my 357 loads just go 'clunk' when they seat in the chamber.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline Dragon31

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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2005, 05:37:14 AM »
I shoot a stainless Conaan, and it will handle hot .357 magnums with ease.  I have alway preferred it to the .45 1911A1.  The grip is a bit longer and the recoil a bit snappyer than the ACP.  It is however the first shot that usually counts the most and the Conaan has great sights.  My son has now adopted it and I ocassionally get it back on loan.  
I once saw a smith .38 auto loader that was originally made to shoot semi wad cutter .38 specials.  The owner had reworked it to handle +P+ .38 specials loads.  Don't remember the model number of the Smith.

Offline HappyHunter

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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2005, 05:59:54 AM »
I have the Smith 52 that shoots 38 special target loads (wadcutters only).
This is a 5 round mag and is TARGET use.  Very nice firearm but limited use.  I do not see how it could be made into a 38 +P as the mag will only accept flush seated wadcutters.

The Desert Eagle in 357 is a bottom feeder that fits your description.  I had one for about 6 months, it was too large a grip to be comfortable to me.  The gun was picky on ammo and I eventually found a load that was best for the gun but it was not as accurate or comfortable to shoot as my 686 smith.  This gun was a novelty, fun for a while but I do not miss it.  

2 more cents

Fred
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Offline Dragon31

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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2005, 07:20:19 AM »
Happyhunter:

Don't know how they did it with the Smith.  I've never been into Smith's to much, especially the auto loaders.  A number of the members of the club are always making something different and unless it is really interesting I don't pay much attention to them.

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2005, 02:03:26 AM »
Dragon31 - about the only thing you can do with a S&W M52 or the Colt 1911 counterpart in 38 Special is to rebarrel them to 38 super.  My 38 Spl wadcutter 1911 was originally a 38 super that was reworked to handle a 38 Spl barrel and the 38 wadcutter loads.  BTW, the 38 wadcutter with a 141 grain bullet can be loaded to 1295'/sec with 6.8 grns of Unique or 1233 with 12 gns of 2400.  I had some hardcast wadcutters made up for me once and tried them with the Unique powder charge and it was something else.  After the first couple of rounds I stuffed a heavy recooil spring in the gun and let her crank.  Pretty darn accurate at that speed, too. The only problem was the magazine limitation - only took 5 rounds.  But, convert it to 38 Super and you get 9 rounds.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline Specklebelly

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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2005, 02:00:38 PM »
Thanks for all the good information.  

I know nothing about handguns and was thinking about getting one.  That is why the .357 questions.  Basically its the caliber that I have heard the most about, so I have been drawn towards it.  Probably not a good reason.

As you can tell, I am trying to do some research before I buy me a handgun.

I am usually a shotgun kind of guy. :-D
Specklebelly

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Offline Doc TH

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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2005, 03:21:52 PM »
I have heard the warnings about shooting 38 spcl in a 357 for some time.  I do that on a regular basis and have never had any chambering problems.  Has anyone actually observed that to actually occur?

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2005, 02:41:30 AM »
Doc TH:  Yep, that has happened to me with both the 357 and the 44 magnums when I have shot low powered loads from either of the specials calibers.  I found that bumping up the velocity a bit reduces the lead ring buildup in the chambers, especially with the 44.  

However, that being said, I have never had a problem with 38 wadcutter target loads in the 357 chambers.  Mikey.

Offline Badnews Bob

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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2005, 11:51:43 AM »
I shoot .38s out of my .357s alot, I also load lite .38 loads in .357 for Cowboy action(watch your powder choices when doing that) The only drawback to doing so is you need to pay close attencion while cleaning(which you should do anyway).

The .38/.357 is probabley the most versitale chambering available, Also if you buy a ruger blackhawk with the extra cylinder you can shoot 9MM out of it too. Load'em mild to wild and everything in between.

Did I mention I like .357 revolvers? :grin:
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Offline v-man

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38's in 357
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2005, 06:11:52 PM »
Doc TH,
I'm with you. I've shot thousands of .38 Specials in my Security Six and SP101 and the long shells still go "clunk" as someone said. Never seen any build up unless my normal cleaning regimen is taking care of it without me noticing.
I'll echo some others though; Nothing is more versatile than a .357 Revolver. For men and women, hunting self-defense or plinking; To find such a broad range of size, power, economy, controlability, application and availability, hands down it's the .357magnum.

Offline ratgunner

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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2005, 12:32:38 PM »
Coonan Arms used to make a 357 mag auto kinda looks like a 1911.I know of atleast one used  for sale so look around. :D
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Offline dogngun

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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2005, 02:30:53 AM »
Buy a used Smith and Wesson or Ruger .357 revolver with a 4" barrel and adjustable sights. You will be able to shoot any of a huge variety of factory loads ranging from .38 spl wadcutter target loads, through .38 spl +P defence loads to mid renge to hot .357 mag loads, all reliable and safe from 1 gun. Learn to shoot with the specials and move up when you are ready.
This is the best introduction to revolvers you can get, and you will probably keep the gun for life. I have been shooting handguns for over 30 years, and the .357 is my favorite because it can be so flexible and useful, and such great fun to shoot.

I have had more exotic calibers, and keep coming back to the .357.

Good luck.

Mark      8)

Offline Gatofeo

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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2005, 04:07:59 PM »
Dogngun is absolutely right.
I've been shooting my Ruger GP-100 for over 10 years. Never had a problem with seating .357 ammo, after firing .38 ammo, if the .38 ammo was of good quality.
However, if you buy cheap, off-brand reloaded ammo often found in gun stores and gun shows, you'll likely get lousy ammo: soft lead bullets, poorly cast bullets, mediocre or too little lubricant on the bullet, primers not fully seated in the back of the case, etc.
An exception to not having a problem with .38 Specials creating a ring of lead in the chamber may be brand-name 148 grain lead wadcutter ammo.
The Big Boys (Winchester, Remington, Speer, Federal) all use very soft lead for their wadcutter target ammo, because the bullets are swaged under pressure and not cast. Long-term use of 148 gr. wadcutters can create a ring of lead in the chambers, that may make seating .357 ammo difficult.
However, a good brushing with a bronze brush usually removes it quickly, or reduces it so .357 ammo can be seated.

The reasons the semi-auto .357 Magnum has never been wildly popular are many:
1. These handguns are expensive, compared to a revolver.
2. Like all semi-auto handguns, they are designed to work within a certain pressure level, and bullet weight. Stray outside that, up or down, and problems appear and reliability is affected.
3. They are large and bulky, often ill-fitting in the hand.
4. Like all semi-autos, they are dependent upon perfect ammo and --- many often forget this --- perfect magazines. Damage the lips of a magazine and you're in for some aggravation.
5. Reliability will never be as good as a revolver.
6. Lead bullets are not recommended, so you're stuck with jacketed bullets.

The classic .357 Magnum revolver has it all over the semi-auto .357 Magnum. You can load it with very light loads. I used to load a 75-grain wadcutter to a little more than 400 feet per second, to introduce newcomers to shooting. This gives little more than a "Blap!" but puts an easily seen hole in the paper target.

Dogngun has given sage advice: A Smith & Wesson or Ruger .357 Magnum. 4-inch barrel. Adjustable sights. Perhaps made of stainless steel but that's not absolutely needed.
And make sure that the revolver you buy, if it's used, can be used single and double-action. Some police departments and shooters will change the revolver to double-action only.
Double-action means that you pull the trigger and it cams the hammer back, rotates the cylinder and -- if you continue pulling the trigger --- drops the hammer on the cartridge.
Single-action means you have to manually reach up and pull back the hammer, for each shot.
Get a double-action revolver, and you can shoot it both ways. It's also easier to load and unload because the cylinder swings out to the side and empties can be ejected all at once, instead of one at a time as in a single-action-only revolver.
Start your shooting with light .38 Special loads. Then move up to the standard .38 Special load of a 158 gr. lead bullet at 850 feet per second. After you're comfortable with that load, move up to a .38 Special Plus-P load, using a 158 gr. lead bullet.
Finally, move up to a .357 Magnum load, if you wish.
The ol' 357 Magnum (it was introduced in 1935; Gen. Patton carried one in World War II) is still the most versatile revolver round out there. And if you reload, you can tackle everything from mice to large deer with it.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2005, 02:01:15 PM »
Quote from: Greybeard
If you want a semiauto .357 Mag then take a look at the .357 Sig. It was designed to duplicate the ballisitics of the .357 Mag and do it in an auto loader. It does exactly that quite satisfactorily when looking at today's .357 Mag performance level. It's not equal to the old original .357s that were still being loaded when I started shooting the round tho.


You are so correct I just researched into the 357SIG and i found it performing very well for the law enforcement its like rated  between 100% and 99% for fatalities with bad guys.  Its sure sounds like a great stopper. Loaded with the 125gr JHP and having the same ballastics as the 357mag it sure sounds like we have a winner.  I also read it performed in the gel test the same as the 10MM so with both rounds being so close in performance.  They said the 357 SIG at 1600 to 1700fps is absolutely devastating and at 1325 to 1450 its downrite impressive too.  It  seems to sound like the 357SIG is the 7,62x25 Tokarev round on steroids!!!!  It sure sounds like the 357SIG will be my next new handgun purchase too.  I was actually looking for a 7,62x25 in a modern weapon and i guess i found it with the 357SIG.  Its equal to the 357 mag. 125gr JHP's in an semi automatic pistol.  I really like the performance of the 357mag its one of my favorite carry guns but it lacks in firepower this is where the 357SIG rules the nest it has both firepower and stopping power too.
                                                                              BigBill

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2005, 04:59:38 AM »
BigBill - you're right - the ballistics of the 357 Sig with a 125 gn bullet at 1400- 1425'/sec are the equal of the much spoken to 357 magnum police load with a 125 gn bullet at 1425'/sec.  The later was rated at near 100% in police annals.

Yeah, that would be a good one to have with you.  I'm not so sure that I want to go spend all that $ for a new pistol.  If I had something chambered in either the 40 S&W or the 10mm I would just get a 357 Sig barrel and start shootin'.

BTW, at Makarov.com you can find 7.62x25mm ammo with a hollowpoint bullet they say clocks at 1650'/sec and is safe for both the Tokarev and the CZ-52.  Sooooo, I ordered some to see how they compare to the S&B ball I have been using.  Man, if anyone ever makes a new handgun for that long bottlenecked round that would be the load to use.  In addition, Reed's makes some softpoint loads for the Tok and the CZ that are supposed to be pretty good.  I may try some of his next.  Mikey.

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2005, 01:06:22 PM »
Mikey;  Your right the pistols in 357SIG are big bucks but i'm looking!!! Maybe a used one will do?  If i find one in new condition.  I was hoping that CZ made one like my CZ85B??  But they don't yet.  I like the way the CZ85B feels in my hand.                                  BigBill

Offline SLAVAGE

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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2005, 01:16:19 PM »
bill if you can get one in a 40 you might be able to get a 3rd party barrel in 357 sig i know they have them for sigs an glocks an even hk's

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2005, 06:34:09 PM »
I'll check into a replacement barrel too that maybe another way to go too. Buy a 40 S&W or 10mm and change out the barrel.

Mikey;  I'm just not crazy about carrying a older gun like the CZ52 or Tokarev and maybe i should be but i never shot any of them yet.  I have reloaded my 357mag with 125gr JHP's at max loads for many years and their going out the pipe at around 1597 FPS.  and this being in the area of the 357SIG "auto" sure makes it an attractive personal defense carry gun. The 357sig looks like the tokarev round too its bottle necked too.  I also figure the pistol must handle the hotter load better than the magnum revolver with the pistol being semi-auto.  I'm guessing the only difference is the bullet weight between the 7,62x25 Tokarev and the 357SIG because the speed(FPS) is very close or the same.         BigBill