Author Topic: OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?  (Read 5168 times)

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Offline SmithAC

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2005, 03:51:56 PM »
Confederate:
I been reading the posts and just have to jump in. Several years ago I bought 2 Encores 209X50 so my son & I could muzzleloader hunt together. One new stainless and one used blue with wood. It was a pricey transaction for me so I had to trade in several guns to make it happen. Both shoot great and since then I have added 24in 7mm-08, 12in 44Mag and 300WinMag. The 7mm08 & 44Mag are tack drivers both under an inch at 100 and 25 yards respectively. Haven't shot the 300WinMag yet.

One of the above posts talks about going to the range and seeing everyone having problems with their TC's. I go on average probably twice a month and my experience is just the opposite, never seen anyone with a serious problem. I've probably seen 10 people with Encores over the last 2 yrs. Last ime I went a guy was sighting his 12ga for a turkey hunt.

My used 209x50 had old plastic front sights which TC replaced at no charge. I have also returned merchandise purchased from them. Overall they get high customer service marks fom me.

Craig in Georgia

Offline Redhawk1

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2005, 03:19:17 AM »
Quote from: WV HUNTER
I see alot of people are happy with there Encore.I'm  personally very unhappy.I bought this Encore in a 7mm mag new.It would not shoot,so I sent the whole gun back to TC and they said they fixed.Wrong it still won't shoot.I sent the barrell back and it still won't shoot.So I traded the 7mm to TC for a.270 and I have not shot it yet.I have bought every ammo out there.Spent $30.00 in shipping and $200.00 or more in ammo.Everytime I go to a shooting range someone is having the same problem as me with different calibers.Most I have talked to are unhappy other than this web site.I have alot of rifles and have never bought on that was this difficult to get a group.I will see how this .270 will shoot soon,I 've just lost interset in the gun and wish I had never bought it because now I can't get my money back.Dealers won't refund and TC will not refund.They will continue working on it.But it get's old sending it back and forth.I bought it for hunting this past season and didn't even get to use it.


I know a bunch of Encore users. I never seen anyone with the problems you described. I personally own 4 Encore frames with the following barrels on them. 209/45, 209/50, 22-250 and a 416 Rigby. All shoot very well. I have had a lot of different barrels for my Encores, and the only reason I got rid of them was not due to how they shot, but what I wanted next to try or shoot.

All my hunting buddies own Encores and they all love them. I never had to replace the original hinge pin and go with the over size. All of my Encores function flawlessly.   :D
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Offline Lawful Larry

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2005, 01:51:50 PM »
Quote from: WV HUNTER
I see alot of people are happy with there Encore.I'm  personally very unhappy.I bought this Encore in a 7mm mag new.It would not shoot,so I sent the whole gun back to TC and they said they fixed.Wrong it still won't shoot.I sent the barrell back and it still won't shoot.So I traded the 7mm to TC for a.270 and I have not shot it yet.I have bought every ammo out there.Spent $30.00 in shipping and $200.00 or more in ammo.Everytime I go to a shooting range someone is having the same problem as me with different calibers.Most I have talked to are unhappy other than this web site.I have alot of rifles and have never bought on that was this difficult to get a group.I will see how this .270 will shoot soon,I 've just lost interset in the gun and wish I had never bought it because now I can't get my money back.Dealers won't refund and TC will not refund.They will continue working on it.But it get's old sending it back and forth.I bought it for hunting this past season and didn't even get to use it.


My experiences and sentiments completely.  I ended up buying a Winchester 300 WSM, model 70 and haven't looked back yet.  The only problem now is that I can't find anyone to buy this POS Encore.  I still can't figure out why TC can make the Contender, which is a fine shooting pistol, and then make the Encore.  I guess it is like the ying and yang, or karma.  

I may try to make a pistol out of the Encore, cause I sure as hell can't sell it.  Oh yeah, I got the 209x.50 and the .30-06 barrels.  Both were cut from the same metal I guess, because both can't shoot worth a damn.  Seems as if TC got that part of the business right.
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline Redhawk1

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2005, 02:06:31 PM »
Quote from: Lawful Larry
Quote from: WV HUNTER
I see alot of people are happy with there Encore.I'm  personally very unhappy.I bought this Encore in a 7mm mag new.It would not shoot,so I sent the whole gun back to TC and they said they fixed.Wrong it still won't shoot.I sent the barrell back and it still won't shoot.So I traded the 7mm to TC for a.270 and I have not shot it yet.I have bought every ammo out there.Spent $30.00 in shipping and $200.00 or more in ammo.Everytime I go to a shooting range someone is having the same problem as me with different calibers.Most I have talked to are unhappy other than this web site.I have alot of rifles and have never bought on that was this difficult to get a group.I will see how this .270 will shoot soon,I 've just lost interset in the gun and wish I had never bought it because now I can't get my money back.Dealers won't refund and TC will not refund.They will continue working on it.But it get's old sending it back and forth.I bought it for hunting this past season and didn't even get to use it.


My experiences and sentiments completely.  I ended up buying a Winchester 300 WSM, model 70 and haven't looked back yet.  The only problem now is that I can't find anyone to buy this POS Encore.  I still can't figure out why TC can make the Contender, which is a fine shooting pistol, and then make the Encore.  I guess it is like the ying and yang, or karma.  

I may try to make a pistol out of the Encore, cause I sure as hell can't sell it.  Oh yeah, I got the 209x.50 and the .30-06 barrels.  Both were cut from the same metal I guess, because both can't shoot worth a damn.  Seems as if TC got that part of the business right.


Lawful Larry, I offered to by the gun from you about 3 months ago and you never returned my PM or my post to you. So I guess you did not want to get rid of it that bad. Also never seen you post it for sale here.  :?  I bought another Encore in 416 Rigby and it is another great shooter.
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Offline Buckskin

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2005, 05:03:26 AM »
I have an Encore 209x50 that shoots as good as you need a ml to shoot. And just purchased a T/C 204 barrel for it.   I was nervous as you are as to the accuracy issues that I had heard about.  My first time out with the 204 was practically a nightmare.  I couldn't keep a 2" group to save my soul with Hornady 40gr v-max.  Remington 40s were about the same. Broke the barrel with these and could get about 1 1/2" groups if I cleaned after every shot.  Then I purchase some 32gr Hornady v-max loads and just shot them over the weekend.  WHAT A difference!  Well under 3/4" groups at 100yds., but what was really cool is I shot a 5 shot group at 300yds and all were inside 3"!!!  If you can deal with one shot, pull the trigger on the Encore you won't be disappointed.  And in my opinion stick with the factory barrels unless you shoot competition.
Buckskin

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Offline mjshell

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2005, 09:24:58 AM »
I have always been pleased with my tc products, both contenders and encores.  Accuracy is user defined.  Personally I strive for 1/2" 3 shot groups at 100 yards.  I have owned a couple of factory barrels that would do this with specific reloads.  My custom barrels aren't as load specific.

I pillar bed the forends, trigger job the receivers, replace the locking lug springs with heavier ones, and yes I use oversized hinge pins on most of my barrels.

To me,  tc products provide a great platform to expand on.  Just like a Colt 1911.

Offline Tom Brush

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Encore - long post
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2005, 11:40:41 AM »
I bought an Encore in 209-45 about 4 years ago.  I had the 1-20 twist barrel.  It shot 4" to 6" groups at 100 yds.  I returned it to the factory twice before the replaced it with another 1-20 twist barrel.  I asked for 1-28 twist.  Each time it would come back and a note said "shoot 2 pellets and a 155gr. bullet for 1" groups" or shoot 3 pellets with the 180 gr. bullet for 1" groups".  It did not work.  I sent it back again requesting a 1-28 barrel.  Before I sent it I called the service shop.  I was given a name of a person to send it to.  Soon I had the 1-28 twist replacement barrel.

I tired it but it would not group any better.  I had free floated the barrel so it touched the forend only at the screw holes.  I put the gun back in the rack and forgot about it for months.  One day I read about lapping the barrel with JB paste on a patch attached to a bore brush.  Being a former benchrest shooter I was concerned about lapping this way but decided to try it.  The procedure was to do 100 passes thru the barrel changing the patch about every 15 passes.  I used 45 passes.  I cleaned the JB out and then shot a 3 shot group at 100 yds.  It was in 1".  Another was the same.  I was impressed!

Since I had success with the 209-45 I decided to buy a .280 Remington barrel.  I lapped this barrel with a bore fitting patch and JB.  I then used the one shot, clean method of barrel break-in for 20 shots.  After this the first group was under 1".  Since developing a load it seldom groups bigger than 1/2" for 3-shots.

Christmas time came and I asked Santa for a .204 Ruger barrel.  This was broke in using the same one shot, clean method for 25 shots.  I did not lap it with JB.  It shoots 40 gr. factory Remington loads in 1/2"  It hates Hornady 32 gr. factory loads but shoots the hanloaded 32 and 40 gr. bullets into .300

I am very pleased with the Encore.  I did free float the barrel by milling the forend and sanding until the barrel sits on two wood pads where the screw holes are.  

Tom

Offline Buckskin

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« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2005, 12:22:04 PM »
Quote
It shoots 40 gr. factory Remington loads in 1/2" It hates Hornady 32 gr. factory loads but shoots the hanloaded 32 and 40 gr. bullets into .300
Quote


Well that is just weird Tom.  Is your 204 barrel a TC factory barrel, if so it must have the same twist rate as mine.  The one that I have hates the 40s and loves the 32s.  Very, very strange!!!
Buckskin

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Offline Buckskin

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« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2005, 12:23:47 PM »
Hmmmmmm, I need to work on my quoting technique.  Backassward! :?
Buckskin

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Offline poncaguy

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2005, 09:28:14 AM »
My Encore rifle in 204 Ruger is a shooter, but, I can't say the same for the 50 BP or 7mm-08 barrels....guess I'll try the JB lapping on them.......

Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2005, 05:17:28 AM »
Well I tried to sell this Encore, but no takers.  I thought I would try to do some work on the gun myself and use the hints from this forum.  I floated the barrel and found the barrel was rubbing on the forend at several places.  A friend also said to place washers between the forend and the screws.  I did that and I then went to the range.  

At first it looked like I had found a fix and the gun was starting to group at around 2.5".  As the barrel warmed up a little, the groups were down to under an inch.  I was starting to feel a lot better.  Well My buddy noticed that when I installed my scope on the barrel, I forgot to fold down the rear site.  It was up and jammed under the scope.  I went and pushed down the site and it was back to how it shot before.  I was back to 6 to 8" groups.  

My friend knows of a gunsmith that has worked on Encores and I gave it to him to see if there is any help for it.  For me to go through all this crap to get a gun to shoot is too much.  Don't say I should send it back to TC.  I did on three ocaisions and they didn't fix a damn thing.  I got the same crap they tell all the other guys, "It shoots to within an inch group for us."  Yeah right!

Good news on the Contenders!!!  They are all tack drivers.  I have five barrels for my G2 and I love 'em all.  I am still scratching my head with the Encore!?!?
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline Keith L

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« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2005, 08:17:10 AM »
Quote
Well My buddy noticed that when I installed my scope on the barrel, I forgot to fold down the rear site. It was up and jammed under the scope. I went and pushed down the site and it was back to how it shot before.


I can't speak for anyone else, but if that happened to one of my guns I would look at scope mounting and scope, not the gun.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline Buckskin

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« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2005, 09:36:21 AM »
Hey Larry, How much for your Encore, I will gladly take it off your hands.
Buckskin

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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2005, 01:06:27 PM »
Quote from: Buckskin
Hey Larry, How much for your Encore, I will gladly take it off your hands.


I asked Larry the same thing several months ago and he did not reply to me.

He complained and I offer to buy the Encore, if I am not mistaken 2 times.
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Offline Buckskin

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« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2005, 03:55:24 AM »
Damn, that means that the price is going to go up if were bidding against eachother.  Was hoping to get that "POS Encore" for a song. Maybe he's a closet Encore lover, who can't admit it yet.
Buckskin

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Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2005, 04:14:32 AM »
Ya see fellas I am basicially a cheap SOB.  I figured that I paid $650 for the Encore with the 209x.50 and then another $250 for the .30-06 barrel and then another $40 for the rifle forend.  That adds up to a chunk of change for a retired guy.  If I try to sell it to one of you guys you will want to pay peanuts for it, right.   :wink:

Tell ya what, if I can't seem to do anything with it I'll sell it and probably take an enormus loss.  But then I can move on to other things.

One question, I currently have plastic stocks on the Encore.  Would the wood stocks give me a better fit and maybe better groups?  I know I got the gun at a gunsmith and he will try his magic, but I can't think of anything else to try short of giving TC hell and trying to get a replacement barrel.  What ya think???
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2005, 04:18:00 AM »
Quote from: Buckskin
Maybe he's a closet Encore lover, who can't admit it yet.


Hey Buckskin,
Actually I am a Contender lover.  I just didn't know that the Encore and Contender both came from a disfunctional family!!! :-D
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2005, 11:24:26 AM »
Quote from: Lawful Larry


One question, I currently have plastic stocks on the Encore.  Would the wood stocks give me a better fit and maybe better groups?  I know I got the gun at a gunsmith and he will try his magic, but I can't think of anything else to try short of giving TC hell and trying to get a replacement barrel.  What ya think???


Larry I have a black synthetic stock, a camo synthetic stock, a wooden stock and a laminated thumbhole stock and I don't see any accuracy change when I switch them out.
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Offline Keith L

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« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2005, 12:28:46 PM »
Larry, if you had pressure on the scope (from the rear sight) and it grouped, then took it off and the groups expanded I would bet that you have problems with the mounts.  Unless you fix that a new barrel will not help.
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Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2005, 03:32:15 AM »
Quote from: Keith L
Larry, if you had pressure on the scope (from the rear sight) and it grouped, then took it off and the groups expanded I would bet that you have problems with the mounts.  Unless you fix that a new barrel will not help.


What mounts are you talking about.  If it is the scope mount I wouldn't begin to figure out how to work with that.  I have never read anything on this being a problem on scope mounted rifles?  Is it the style of mount I have (weaver?)  It is the right mount for an Encore rifle barrel.

If it is the mount points on the forend, I worked that problem or thought I did???

Do you think I should try the open sights?  I never tried them so maybe I should set up a target at 50 yards and give it a try.  What do you think?
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Offline Buckskin

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« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2005, 08:32:20 AM »
Larry,
I was just going to suggest that.  Pull that glass off and see what the old irons do.  That  should tell you if its your scope, mounts or barrel.
Also what load are you using for your ML?  I found that 130 grains of 777 worked much better than 150.
Buckskin

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Offline buckenbass

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« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2005, 10:12:59 AM »
First i want to say is I have 25+ barrels in encores,tcr and contenders and 9 frames total and another 3 frames and 10 barrels has pasted throw my hands and never had any problem grouping an inch at 100 yards ..NOT TO SAY I was just able to pick up a barrel some ammo and shoot an inch!!!!  I had to do my part,wich was hard to do some times because I tend to be a little recoil jumpy,and always have to play around with ammo brand and boolit weight. also dipped in to reloading...and before someone asks some of my barrels I never shot at 100yards such as 357,45,44 and so on...

second  LARRY
I read in a earlier post that your friend saw that the iron sight was putting stress on you scope IF the scope was put on this way and tighten down with iron sight in the way, then latter flipped down you MAY have  unseen movement in the front of your scope may need to tighten front scope ring...just a thought..

AS far as a bigger pin goes that has always bothered me because the scope or front/rear sight are on the barrel wich means line if sight and boolit path will always stay lined up at the sighted in distance and I don't belive you would be able to tell the accuratelcey flaw would not come from a loose pin or the rounds recoil.

Last is I just bought a 7mm-08 and only shot 10 rounds at 50yards and the group was over an inch But did not have a good rest at the time and only first bran of ammo..What I would like is some info from you people  on what bran and weight is being used with your encore..
I was also sighting in a 22-250 and a 223  both grouping less then a dime at 50 yards will go to 100 soon...
I have yet been able to shoot a 3 shot sub 1" group at 100 yards ...........on any deer!!!!!!

Offline Keith L

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« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2005, 10:33:11 AM »
Quote
What mounts are you talking about. If it is the scope mount I wouldn't begin to figure out how to work with that. I have never read anything on this being a problem on scope mounted rifles? Is it the style of mount I have (weaver?) It is the right mount for an Encore rifle barrel.


Weaver mounts, while ugly in my opinion, when properly mounted will hold a scope well.  I use Leupold mounts frequently with Burris rings.

Improperly mounted scopes will always give the type of problem you have been having.

When I mount a scope I stone all high spots off mount and barrel normally found at the screw holes.  I set the mount in bedding rosin or epoxy to take up any missmatch, and torque down the screws with loctite.  You want the mount to be rigid!!!  I let the gun sit for a few hours to let loctite and epoxy to cure.  Then I add the rings, carefully checking for alignment.  How you do that depends on how the rings attach.  It may be as simple as using a polished bar the diameter of the scope (most likely one inch), or for dovetail rings I have a tool made of bar stock with pointed ends that must line up.  I then lap the rings to make sure, put in the scope and tighten the rings (tight as you can get them).  Then I shoot enough to get things good and hot, then tighten again.  After several range sessions, when things "wiggle in" well I take the ring screws out one at a time and loctite them.  Tighten them as tight as you can get them, then sight in the gun for the final time.  Unless the scope gets a hard shock or is removed and replaced for some reason your gun should shoot well for a good long time.  I will test fire any gun before hunting with it just for my own peace of mind, but rarely is any adjustment necessary if you have mounted the scope well.

Hope this helps.
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Offline Bim

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« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2005, 06:03:49 PM »
I have two Encores in stainless. One pistol in .243 that I just got and a 26" 22-250. that I've had for a couple of years. I love the 22-250 that's why I got the .243 pistol. The 22-250 I can shoot dime sized groups at a hundred yds but yesterday I got to go to a range that went to three hundred yards. I never shot that far before and was surprized to even hit the target but I got six shots inside 5" and I think I can do much better if I shoot more at that range. I'm going to join that range and practice, practice, practice.
The .243 pistol is a honey also. I can keep it in a three inch circle at a hundred but it's the first time I've shot a scoped pistol and it takes some getting used to, again practice................and I'll improve.
As far as the hinge pin I agree with the Musicman it's bull! I've had Contenders for many years also and you can't get the hinge pin far enough to one side to loosen the barrel unless you don't have the forearm on. On my Contenders and Encores the pins ain't loose enough to slide even if I didn't have the forearm on!
Don't worry buy it!
Bim

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« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2005, 06:29:08 PM »
I went to a range yesterday with a friend that just picked up an Encore in .204. He had a nice Leupold scope and rings on it and couldn't find the paper with a bullet at 50 yds. We put up a big piece of cardboard and he still couldn't hit it. Then we noticed the scope was way off to one side of the barrel. We didn't have a touque driver set with us so I suggested he take it home and start all over again. I'll let you know what he finds out.
    When you put on a base try each screw individually make sure it tightends down the base then loosen it and try the next. You'll never know if a screw is too long unless you do this.
Bim

Offline Keith L

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OPINIONS ON ENCORE RIFLES?
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2005, 12:22:43 AM »
Good point.  Often screws are too long and the base will never get tight.

Magnetic bore sights are getting quite reasonable now, and I have never failed to get a scope on paper at 100 yards since getting mine.  They can save some time and frustration.  The work great with blue and stainless barrels,  There is enough iron in the stainless used in guns to make them stick well.
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Offline nomosendero

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« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2005, 04:59:01 AM »
No doubt, those bore sighters are worth having. Boresighters have always put me on paper too unless there ways something wrong with the gun. When that happens at least you can look at the gun before you start wasteing ammo.

I have an Encore 209-50 that I did not bore sight because I did not have
a 50cal arbor. I mounted a Weaver 4X16 for group testing only & with all
the adjustment in the scope used, it would barely touch the paper in the
lower part. Thinking maybe something happened to my scope, I then mounted a 4X12 Leupold with the same result. After calling Leupold for    advise I had to shim 2 pieces of a coke can to bring it up. Also, because
this muzzeloader would not group properly I set it back to TC but that is
another story.

Anyway, a magnetic type would be nice.
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Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2005, 06:55:41 AM »
Quote from: Keith L
Quote
What mounts are you talking about. If it is the scope mount I wouldn't begin to figure out how to work with that. I have never read anything on this being a problem on scope mounted rifles? Is it the style of mount I have (weaver?) It is the right mount for an Encore rifle barrel.


Weaver mounts, while ugly in my opinion, when properly mounted will hold a scope well.  I use Leupold mounts frequently with Burris rings.

Improperly mounted scopes will always give the type of problem you have been having.

When I mount a scope I stone all high spots off mount and barrel normally found at the screw holes.  I set the mount in bedding rosin or epoxy to take up any missmatch, and torque down the screws with loctite.  You want the mount to be rigid!!!  I let the gun sit for a few hours to let loctite and epoxy to cure.  Then I add the rings, carefully checking for alignment.  How you do that depends on how the rings attach.  It may be as simple as using a polished bar the diameter of the scope (most likely one inch), or for dovetail rings I have a tool made of bar stock with pointed ends that must line up.  I then lap the rings to make sure, put in the scope and tighten the rings (tight as you can get them).  Then I shoot enough to get things good and hot, then tighten again.  After several range sessions, when things "wiggle in" well I take the ring screws out one at a time and loctite them.  Tighten them as tight as you can get them, then sight in the gun for the final time.  Unless the scope gets a hard shock or is removed and replaced for some reason your gun should shoot well for a good long time.  I will test fire any gun before hunting with it just for my own peace of mind, but rarely is any adjustment necessary if you have mounted the scope well.

Hope this helps.


Keith,
Thanks for the indepth info on the base.  I have never had to do this or have I ever heard of anyone being this precise on installing the base mount.  I know the Encore is very finicky and maybe this is necessary to get it working right.  Maybe I should just send the barrel back one more time and tell TC to please send me a replacement or send nothing.  

I was at the range the other day and a guy had a .30-06 barrel mounted on an Encore and he was grouping very respectable groups.  This made me just shake my heard.  The only diffenece was that his was blued finish and walnut wood stocks.  He even let me shoot it and I grouped a three shot group inside an 1".  

I think I will call TC one more time and talk to them and see what they can do for me on a swap.?!?      :cry:
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2005, 09:16:20 AM »
Still waiting for my Encore to come back from gunsmith.  Will wait till then to call TC.  

Spent the day yesterday working up some new loads for my Win mod 70 Shadow in .300 WSM.  I was working with a game king 165 HPBT bullet and came up with two loads.  I used XMR 4350 and IMR 4895.  The old 4895 powder came out best.  I got a group of .389 with 56 grs. at 100 yards.  That was very impressive for these old eyes.  Wish I could get performance like that with the Encore.   :cry:
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Offline Buckskin

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« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2005, 10:29:12 AM »
I think your problem may be your attitude toward your Encore.  If you don't think it will shoot, it won't shoot.  Try talking nice to it.
Buckskin

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