Author Topic: Lyman GPR Flintlock Misfiring (Read 1475 times)

siamese4570 · « **on:** March 21, 2005, 03:08:12 PM »

Ok guys, I need some advice. Last spring, I built a Great Plains Flintlock Rifle from a kit. Turned out well and shot well until the other day. Now I can hardly get it to fire. I've changed the flint (numerous times), open up flash hole to 1/16". Varied the amount of 4f priming in the pan. It's misfired the last two trips to the range. Prior to this it was working great. I've tried bumping the butt on the ground to settle the powder and bumping the side of the lock to push the powder toward the flash hole. I'm using 2f bp. Do you think that I've already cut through the case-hardening on the frizzen? Haven't shot 100 balls through it yet, probably more like 75. It will spark and light the priming, but the main charge won't ignite. Like I said before, it didn't do this until recently. Help!

Hatchetman

flintlock · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2005, 03:49:21 PM »

If it is igniting the powder in the pan...there is nothing wrong with the lock...If it "was" working and now its not...How was the powder in the barrel stored??? Try putting some of the ff powder into the pan...see if it ignites...When you pour the main charge down the barrel...can you see the granuals close to the pan??? If not the touchhole might be dirty from the inside...Also, I know you said you were using bp...this is real bp..not a substitute....

If the powder in the pan is igniting, and you can see the grains of powder (main charge) from the touchhole, and you are using ff or fff black powder that will ignite from a spark from the flintlock, no reason for the gun not to go off....Now, if the gun doesn't fire without any hesitation...Thats another set of problems...Good luck

Cowpox · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2005, 04:48:59 PM »

Hello siamese4570, I had trouble with misfires, hangfires, and slow ignition until I started inserting a round wooden toothpick into the touch hole before loading. Pull the toothpick before priming the pan. This will leave a nice channel to get the fire into the main charge. Good luck.

rondo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2005, 05:43:36 PM »

S4570,.... You don't mention the clean'n proceedure thet you use, but it sounds to me as tho the patented breech is partialy plugged with old foul'n!!

Have you tried remove'n the barrel, and put'n the breech end of the barrel in a bucket while use'n a patched jag in a pump'n action to clean everthin out??

YMHS
rollingb/Rondo

rondo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2005, 05:47:12 PM »

P.S.,.... an empty "bucket" won't do you any good, I fergot to mention it should contain warm soapy water!!

:-D

YMHS
rollingb/Rondo

sharps4590 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2005, 12:39:06 AM »

One of the things you mentioned no one else has touched on. You said you bumped the lock to push the charge towrd the touch hole. Did you mean the main charge or the priming charge? In regeards to the priming charge you want it away from the touch hole.

Another poster said to insert a tooth pick into the touch hole. This works well altho I don't do it that way. Once the ball is rammed home on the charge I use my vent pick and "drill" a hole into the main charge, shoving some priming powder into the touch hole in the process. I always make sure the touch hole is welll open to the flash.

I agree with a couple of the other guys also....sounds as if it could be as simple as a fouled breech.

Vic

PA-Joe · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2005, 01:35:14 AM »

I used a #2 KEO Combination Drill to cone the outside of the touchhole liner. This will also enlarge the hole to 5/64. If you do this only remove 1/2 of the screw channel (1/4 each side) or you will not be able to remove the liner.

Birddog6 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2005, 12:58:53 PM »

Well.. .. Definately not the lock if the pan is flashing.

I agree it sound like the powder could be stopping at the patent breech. I have never had a problem with mine, however I use a flushing attachment when I clean mine & it flushes this area out.

Tell ya what.......... It is a Lyman so it should have a screw out vent. Remove the flint, take the vent out, dump a charge in it & push a wadded up patch in on top of it & see if any powder comes out the vent hole. If it don't the patent breech is clogged up.

If so, take that patch back out with a patch worm on your RR & then go back in with the worm or a breech scraper & loosen that charge & dump it out on the ground,.

Now take a bucket of warm water & put a good squirt of dishwashing liquid in it & now take it to the corner & stand the breech end of that barrel in the water. Now take a cup & get some of the water & pour the barrel full. You should see some fouling start to come out of the vent or dirty water.

Now take a jag & a thick patch on a good strong rangerod, wet the patch & put it on the jag & into the barrel & start pumping it in & out & see what comes out.

Let it soak a while & just keep doing this & this should dislodge all the crudds in the patent breech.

When you are done, rinse it well inside with clean water, dry it good inside & thuroughly lube the bore good & make sure it squirts the rust inhibitor out the vent, so you know you have it protected. That should clear it for the next time.

Next time before ya go shoot, take a .22 cleaning rod with a large patch on it & work it into the patent breech & sop up that oil in there, then swab the oil out of the bore & go a shooting.

If you modify the vent to 5/64th dia & done it a tad on both sides it will ingnite much faster than the 1/16 size hole. Ths it what I use in all of mine .45 cal bores & larger. If I use 3F I just use a vent pick.

Best of Luck !

PS: Buy a flushing attachment from Jim Chambers Flintlocks & you will end the fouled patent breech problem, if this is the problem.

siamese4570 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2005, 05:26:33 PM »

OK, Lets take another stab at this. I check the bit that I used to open up the flashhole, it was 5/32. So I think that it is plenty big. I use Goex 4f to prime and Goex 2f for the main charge. This rifle has a hooked breech so to clean it I take it off and do the hot soapy water method after ever shooting session. I also have two diameter bristle brushes, one for the barrel and one for the stepped breech. I also take the vent liner out and make sure that it get clean after pumping the soapy water through it. I then dry it and lube with wonder lube. Before firing, I run a patch down the barrel and then put a patch on a slotted jag and get any excess lube out of the stepped breech. I don't think that cleaning is the problem, because I have followed the same process since I built the rifle and it always worked fine. I also run a pic or pipe cleaner in the touch hole be for loading to make sure that its open. Since it is lighting the priming charge, I guess that I'm getting enough spark. Could it be that the spring that holds the frizzen shut has weakened allowing the priming flash to go out instead of in?

Dazed and bewildered in Oklahoma - Siamese4570

Cowpox · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2005, 08:28:59 PM »

Siamese4570, When your prime burns, but fails to fire the charge, will it fire after using your pick in the vent and priming again ? Or, after repeated attempts, do you have to pull the load in the chamber? Also, Is this happening on the first shot, or does it happen after your rifle has fired one or more times ?

rondo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2005, 08:44:16 PM »

Quote from: siamese4570

Could it be that the spring that holds the frizzen shut has weakened allowing the priming flash to go out instead of in?

Dazed and bewildered in Oklahoma - Siamese4570

I doubt if the frizzen spring is the problem, in fact you should be able to fire the rifle without a frizzen spring at all, as it's purpose is to keep the frizzen closed so you don't lose the prime'n when you carry the rifle.

Can you see powder thru yore vent-hole after dump'n in a powder charge,.... if so,.... I'd say the FFG yore use'n may be the problem,.... tho I've never had any problem with real blackpowder stored in a cool dry place of storage.

If yore prime'n will flash, the breech area (inside and out) dry and free of oil, use'n good powder, and the main charge of FFG blackpowder is visible thru the vent,.... thet "sucker" ought'a shoot!! :agree:

YMHS
rollingb/Rondo
TMA Co-Founder

Birddog6 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2005, 01:43:32 AM »

OK. The gun is cleaned properly so we don't have a breech blocked.

You removed the vent & dumped a charge & pushed in the barrel & then some patches & you KNOW there is powder in the patent breech ?

We are using REAL BP here, right ? Like Goex or Scheutzen ? If it is a BP sub like Pyrocrap, Cleanshot, Clearshot, 777, that is most likely the problem.

Unless you are clogging the vent when you load it, I can't think of a reason it should not go off. Try loading it & take a large gem clip & bend the tip of it into a ? 3/4" arc. Load the rifle & put the curved clip in & work the point in towards the main charge & just work the H out of it & open a hole into the charge. Use 1/2 a pan of 3F or 4F in the pan & don't have any powder going into the vent hole. Try that & if that don't work, I don't know what it is. The frizzen spring has nothing to do with it, as it is igniting the pan & that is all if is supposed to do.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2005, 02:30:53 AM »

By the way, another thing I noticed on mine (looking down the barrel) was that the touchhole liner actually extended in to the breach. I removed two threads.

Birddog6 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2005, 01:32:05 PM »

Well. never thought of that but that could cause a problem also. The vent liner should go TO the hole (flush) in the patent breech but not extend into it, same way on the bore of a barrel with a breechplug. The vent should go to the bore, not stick out inside the bore. Makes a real problem trying to swab & clean one also if the vent liner is too long.

wild willy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2005, 03:17:43 PM »

I agree with rondo on this if you can see the powder in the vent and the pans going off somethings wrong with your powder

lostid · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2005, 05:04:16 PM »

look at it this way,,ok? simple.the guy is overloading his pan..and not picking the vent,,hes got a carbon problem.
flash-in-the-pan but nuthing is happening? Hello? anyone wanna tell'im about a feather in the vent??

crow_feather · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2005, 09:23:30 AM »

One other thing that I have seen is that if a person wipes a hot bore with a melting type lube and doesn't wipe out the excess, the lube will flow into the bottom of the barrel. The first or second shot a week later will melt the residue, holding in the threads, and that residue will flow out of the threads and contaminate the powder. So you have a good first or second shot, and then things go bad, this might be the problem.

I have also seen round ball patches get too wet and will foul the powder. I use an overpowder patch with out any lube before putting down the lubed patched round ball to eliminate this.

Couple of things to try

Crow Feather

lostid · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2005, 04:52:15 PM »

well like the old saying goes

"You can lead a Horse to water,,
,,,,,an if he don't drink. "shoot it!"

siamese4570 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2005, 06:02:02 AM »

OK, mystery solved. I went out yesterday and tried again with some 3f Goex that I had. Fired 10 shots with one misfire. The one misfire was corrected by wiping off the bottom of the flint. Must had been the 2f Goex that I had been using. Never had powder go bad before. Stored in the house (cool & dry). I'm still going to try it (2f Goex) in my caplock gun and see if it will work. The powder was probably no more than a year old. As Yogi said, "Who'd a thunk it!". Thanks for the info.

Siamese4570

Birddog6 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2005, 12:55:16 PM »

After I shoot, I take the end of a rag & put over my index finger, wet it with saliva & I wipe off the frizzen 1st, then the flint top & bottom second, then wipe out the bottom of the pan 3rd, then I wipe them all dry.
This is especially important in damp humid weather as it will sometimes condense there & you will have moisture in the fouling left from the flash & thus contaminate the flash powder in the pan when you reprime.. Also if fouling builds up under the flint it is sometimes absorb part of the flash.

:grin: