Author Topic: The Best Military Rifle of all time???  (Read 2208 times)

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Offline Doc.2/47

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The Best Military Rifle of all time???
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2005, 12:55:46 AM »
And I very much hope that the enemies of the US continue to field the obsolete,poor quality,inaccurate Ak instead of acqureing a decent weapon.

I think if our boys in Iraq prefered the AK they would have them in their hands instead of on their backs.Likely they're just in route to the dump with them.

The refined version of the M1-the M14-is an EXCELLENT weapon for Iraq!Quite a few are in service there already.

Offline txpete

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« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2005, 03:23:16 AM »
how many of you did time in the bush with a M16 to be such experts???
I did.I'll take a M16 over a ak anyday.
for you M14 lovers,great rifle accurate and very heavy.
I'd like see to y'all with a
full ruck
lbe
hemet
flak vest
2 canteens
chow C rats not mre's
full combat basic load of ammo
then see ya hump all that in 120 F
were not talking a trip to the range shooting little orange dots.
at the end of day 1 you would be more than happy to pick up a m4 or A2.
pete

Offline S.S.

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« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2005, 03:58:33 AM »
Bill,
I would not have one, I truely dislike them as a fighting
implement. If someone gave me one I would either give it
away or sell it and buy a real weapon. Something like
another Hk91 maybe. As you can tell I don't like the M16
and would rate it way outside the top ten.
People can rant and give it glowing praise, But bad experiences
die hard. I will never own another one. period!
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline 7mm MAGNUM

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« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2005, 07:51:25 AM »
Hmmmmm,.... I pretty suprised that nobody mentioned the good ol' BAR

I was always impressed with that weapon,.. and I would like to add one to my collection if I could.
Shoot Straight & Stay Safe!   :D

Terry Webster

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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2005, 08:04:16 AM »
S.Sumner;   Right now if i had to pick one weapon to trust with my life it would be the AK designed Saiga in 308win/nato.               BigBill

Offline kevin.303

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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2005, 11:20:05 AM »
Quote from: txpete
how many of you did time in the bush with a M16 to be such experts???
I did.I'll take a M16 over a ak anyday.
for you M14 lovers,great rifle accurate and very heavy.
I'd like see to y'all with a
full ruck
lbe
hemet
flak vest
2 canteens
chow C rats not mre's
full combat basic load of ammo
then see ya hump all that in 120 F
were not talking a trip to the range shooting little orange dots.
at the end of day 1 you would be more than happy to pick up a m4 or A2.
pete


my great grandfather told me that in WW1 his kit wieghed close to a 100 Lb's, plus a 10 pound rifle and ammo.
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline txpete

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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2005, 01:50:12 PM »
and your point is????. :shock:
pete

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2005, 02:04:50 PM »
Widest used and best are two different things,I carried the 9lb. MI for 7 months and would pick the M14 as best.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline kevin.303

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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2005, 02:35:13 PM »
Quote from: txpete
and your point is????. :shock:
pete


no point, just kinda interesting. although it makes you wonder, has the equipment gotten lighter, or is the phyiscal training less rigourous. but no, i wouldn't want to hump it around in 120 weater. i'll leave that to the Marines
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline Kamate

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The Best Military Rifle of all time???
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2005, 01:39:58 AM »
I might be headed Iraq's way soon and I'd prefer my Lee Enfield Number 1 MkIII to an M16 or the F88 AUSTYER we get issued. I can knock critters off at 400m plus with my enfield 223 rounds wont do much at that range.  Urban fighting though I'll take the F88Carbine

Offline txpete

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« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2005, 01:51:36 AM »
training today I would guess is equal to when I was in.todays solider has different weapons and gear.
you could always come down and find out :grin:
I(ex cdn) join up during nam with a green card stayed in over 20 years and now a texan and love it.it was nice to walk out the main gate at fort hood retired(39) then start a second career with a defence contractor.
fwiw
my dad retired from the canadian army
my grandfather went to WWI
my uncle frank flew lancasters,england then africa
my uncle john was in the bataan death march and made it
both the army and usmc are looking for some good men :D french not required.
pete

Offline JohnS4570

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« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2005, 09:38:11 AM »
I have used AK, SKS, M-1, M-14, C-7, and Lee-Enfield --Each has its place and each in its own way deserves a reputation for greatness. If, however, we are to go by longevity,  the Lee- Enfield wins hands down.
    For those who are unaware, the Lee-Enfield is still the issue rifle of the Canadian Rangers. A service rifle  which has remained  in issue for  117 years deserves some accolades.

John S
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Offline Badnews Bob

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« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2005, 07:53:40 AM »
The M-14 is being reissued, The Marines are grabbing up everyone they can get, Why? Because they work very well and if you shoot someone with one they don't get back up.

 BTW they are also reissueing .45 ACP... Ever wonder why.....
Badnews Bob
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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2005, 10:04:00 AM »
Quote from: Badnews Bob
The M-14 is being reissued, The Marines are grabbing up everyone they can get, Why? Because they work very well and if you shoot someone with one they don't get back up.

 BTW they are also reissueing .45 ACP... Ever wonder why.....


Yes because these guys don't give up until there dead if you just wound them they will keep on fighting.  The 308nato and the 45acp will do the job there made for killing not wounding.  We should of never gave them up in the first place. If you think about it some of the stuff we did in WW2 makes sense.  In a squad we had garands, two bar's, m1 carbines and a sniper with a 1903 springfield.  We used a mix of firepower not just one weapon because one weapon couldn't do it all. We had a group of guys who had different guns to handle any situation in a heartbeat. I guess some book smart educated guy in command who never seen a war or been in a war or conflict dreamed up that one gun can do it all.  Its a shame people have to die to make them realize "OH" we made a mistake.  They should of realized why the russians lost in afganistan heck i did when i seen them with old mosins and enfields on the higher ridges when the news media interviewed them before the afgan war.  I told my kids they were going to take us apart too with long range shots against the M16's and they did and still are.  One marksman with an old war horse that can shoot can sure do damage well beyond the range of an M16.  What were they thinking?  
                                                                            BigBill

Offline Robert357

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fire power
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2005, 07:45:33 PM »
Bill,

The issue is really changing tactics.

M-16's provide more sustained firepower than M-14's.

The real question revolves around the fact that tactics in urban areas among dedicated enemy are different than in a jungle with a "hit and run" enemy.

Let's be honest, different weapons do better with different tactics.

We are coming full circle, but that is to be expected, because our army is so well armed and trained to defeat a "jungle hit & run enemy."

Offline S.S.

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« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2005, 04:41:36 AM »
BAR was/is a great weapon but I think it's
intended purpose was as a Squad Automatic Weapon
of sorts. Not really a battle rifle.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Eddie in Delta

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« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2005, 01:13:27 PM »
My dad never felt undergunned with a M16 in Iraq.  Considering the fact that much of the fighting is in an urban environment, the M16 and its varients are a much more useful and handy weapon than the bulky M1.

American tactics since WWII have involved the use of heavy firepower.  In fact, the Germans used to become irate because the Americans didn't usually engage them as infantry; the GIs blew the crap out of them with planes, artillery, mortars, rocket launchers, and granades if they could first, according to many firsthand accounts.  Also, I believe it was Frank Salter who said that infantry was used more as a mop-up tool.

Obviously there are many, numerous exceptions and circumstances where the heavy firepower doctrines were not or could not be used.  That said, if you can't kill something with a .223, chances are you couldn't hit it with a .308 or need a bigger weapon anyway.

And lest we think that a .30/06 means one shot, one kill, remember that post-war Defense Department estimates said that approximately 20,000 shots were fired for every dead enemy soldier.

Eddie

Offline mudriver

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« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2005, 05:13:00 PM »
I've used an M16 in combat, used M14's, shot Garands, FAL's, AK47's, K98's, Styers, you name it.  My favorite is the HK91/G3.  I can hit at much farther ranges (more accurate and a 308) than an M16 and it is far more reliable.  If someone tells you that an M16 is as reliable as an HK then they are severly mistaken.  

Also - in my experience if you need range then you need to often see the impacts of rounds which is very limited in the .223.  In urban environments it is often desirable to shoot through walls - which the 308 does very well.  However the HK is a bit heavy for those who don't like that sort of thing.

I have been playing with an AR in 6.8 some and I have so say I've been impressed so far.  If they can just change that stupid direct gas action on the AR.

BTW for clarification - the Brown Bess is probably the most successful military firearm of all time, but it is not a rifle so is disqualified.  At least one historian has indicate that the AK47 and the Roman short sword are probably running neck and neck as the weapons that have killed the most people ever so that's one big vote for the AK.

Offline Slamfire

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« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2005, 02:16:48 PM »
muddriver,
When you git tired of the .270 popgun rebuild it to 6.5 Grendel. Now there a round with enough velocity and bullet weight to replace both the 5.56 and 7.62s.  :grin:
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline mudriver

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« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2005, 04:46:17 PM »
I heard the 6.5 is pretty sweet.  Now put that in an HK platform......

Offline nealglen37

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My Vote
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2005, 06:23:40 PM »
My vote would be the Kentucky rifle..............the colonist were able to hit and run.........and shot from longer ranges than the British could........... using their brown bess muskets.

I actually watched a show about it............their number one pick was the maxim machine gun.............it was so deadly they called it "The devils Paintbrush"............changed war forever.

Offline Longcruise

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The Best Military Rifle of all time???
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2005, 06:29:16 AM »
Quote
for you M14 lovers,great rifle accurate and very heavy.
I'd like see to y'all with a
full ruck
lbe
hemet
flak vest
2 canteens
chow C rats not mre's
full combat basic load of ammo
then see ya hump all that in 120 F


Have to agree 100%, having toted the M14.

But, my choice for door to door would be an M16 or M4 and if in a non-urban evironment where I could see as far as it's potential it would be an M14.

Offline RB Rooson

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The Best Military Rifle of all time???
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2005, 05:55:54 PM »
The MOSIN-NAGANT gets my vote.  How many soldiers for how many armies toted this rifle around for how many years?  And it is still a work horse in many aspects of shooting......military matches, hunting, etc.
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Offline HouseofCash

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« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2005, 08:21:29 AM »
I would have to say.

Best assault cartridge/assault rifle is a AK-47/7.62x39.

Best battle cartridge/battle rifle is a M14/7.62x51 NATO.

Best long range sniper cartridge/sniper rifle is a Barrett .50.

Best machine gun is a tie, it is the m60 or MG42.

Best Yote cartridge/Yote rifle is a M16/5.56 NATO.   :-D Just playing.
 
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Offline kevin.303

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« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2005, 12:25:12 PM »
actually the M60 is a derivative of the MG42. the West German Army wanted to adopt the MG42, but the blueprints where gone. so they obtained one that had been captured by the US Army and reversed engineered it. chambered in 7.62x51 it became the MG1, and the basis for the M60. i glanced the guns and ammo article on the best battle rifles of all time, and was disappointed to say the least. being an American publication i wasn't surprised in the least to see the M16 as their No.1 choice. the SMLE was second last which surprised me, the M1 and M14 should really have been counted as one, and for some reason there was no Mosin Nagant on the list. nevermind the fact it was in production for over production for over 50 years, was issued to the largest armies in the world, and the 7.62X54r is still in frontline use today as a sniping and machine gun cartridge. the dreyse needle gun might have been a revolutionary battle rifle, but it's hardly one of the top 10 greatest.
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline HouseofCash

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« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2005, 07:55:10 PM »
Quote
i glanced the guns and ammo article on the best battle rifles of all time, and was disappointed to say the least. being an American publication i wasn't surprised in the least to see the M16 as their No.1 choice. the SMLE was second last which surprised me, the M1 and M14 should really have been counted as one, and for some reason there was no Mosin Nagant on the list. nevermind the fact it was in production for over production for over 50 years, was issued to the largest armies in the world, and the 7.62X54r is still in frontline use today as a sniping and machine gun cartridge. the dreyse needle gun might have been a revolutionary battle rifle, but it's hardly one of the top 10 greatest.


I read that too. Agreed.
 
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Offline coltnavy36

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The Best Military Rifle of all time???
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2005, 05:58:32 PM »
I did not read all posts, but as for my opinion on the topic, for best military rifle of all time--in two categories:modern, and not-so modern:
For the modern--I'm going to go with the AK-simply due to reliability and easy to acquire in most places that are, well, dangerous.
For not-so modern---I'll have to say the 98 Mauser.--controls aim more due to manual feeding-foolproof

As for ammunition: modern---7.62-39
Not so modern---8mm mauser---has put more men in the ground than most any other type combined accept for the 7.62-54, and is a knocker-downer
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Offline cal sibley

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« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2005, 02:10:50 PM »
I'm sure to be in a huge minority here, but I've always been extremely fond of the Swedish M96 in 6.5x55.  I bought one about 20 years ago to toy with, and I now have four, all quite attractive and all very accurate for military weapons.  The actions are much stronger than our gun writers care to admit to, and they haven't had the hell shot out of them.  The Swedes were one of the few countries to regularly recall their rifles to an arsenal for inspection.  This has contributed to their remaining in excellent condition over the years.  Just one mans opinion.  Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
RIP Cal you are missed by many.