Made a B-I-I-I-G Mistake....

[Patriot_1776]

Well, how should I start this?  

I was cleaning my 17 HMR today; another thing to bear in mind, I fired it for the first time, per se, after I customized it.  Had a Ross Thumbhole put on it, along with a GM bull barrel, and it seemed to shoot beautifully conditions permitting yesterday.  So this would be the first cleaning with the custom stuff installed.

To get to the point, I was using my new patchworm (came yesterday) that I've never tried before.  BUT, I remember reading something about doubling the patch, and getting a better "final" run through the barrel to dry it good.  BIG MISTAKE #1 :oops:

The nylon bead on the end, used to hold the patch(s) had broken off inside the barrel, almost 1/2 way through.  Remember, this was no fault in part to the patchworm, it was completely my own doing.  

I then thought to use a cleaning rod going from muzzle end to punch it out back towards the chamber; but fearing to damage the crown, I used a wooden dowl instead.  The wooden dowl was slightly smaller than the bore's dia.  Thought I was making progress, as the dowel was moving into the barrel gradually.  Then, I put a smaller piece of dowl inside the barrel to use in conjunction with another piece.  BIG MISTAKE #2

Instead, I made 0 (READ ZERO) percent progress.  As it turned out, the wooden dowl was not pushing the "foreign object" at all.  By the looks of things, it seems it became wedged under the nylon bead, which is also wrapped in TWO patches...shoot. :evil: :oops: :evil:    So, the only thing I thought left, would be to work at it for a while with the steel one piece cleaning rod I have for this caliber.  After hammering (carefully, but firmly) with that for a while, there was still no inprovement.  So I hope to take it to a G.S. pretty soon, and have them remove it.  

I did have a question or two to present here.  Would using the steel cleaning rod have damaged anything inside the barrel, or near the crown?  I fear those two things the most, and am concerned with whether I would have to purchase a new barrel.  There are a couple (and only a couple) of very light blemishes on the front face of the barrel's crown.  They are not anything like scratches or gouges, just simple blemishes from the cleaning rod or some such.  I'll tell ya, there is NO feeling like getting caught between a nylon bead, two patches, a section of wood dowl, and a custom hard place.  I would REALLY appreciate it, and thanks for any and all replies regarding my situation here. I'll be watching this thread fairly frequently.

-Patriot

[Graybeard]

At this point given the tools you likely have available and your experience level I suggest you find a gunsmith or a much more experienced shooter with a lot of equipment to play with. You've learned a valuable lesson here I hope. NEVER EVER put soft and breakable stuff down your barrel. Use proper steel rods ONLY to clean those guns.

[Double D]

If the nylon bead popped off from doubling patch and brute force then the design was some what weak to start with.  Messing  up your crown and rifling is the least of your worries right now.  This is going to be an expensive lesson.  Listen to Graybeard and take it to a gunsmith and get it done right.  Working inside that tiny hole is not going to be easy.  You may end up needing a new barrel. Get the obstuction out first, shoot the gun and see if you have a problem.

Just a little encouragement, I had one of these once that a customer brought to me that I was able to blow out with compressed air.   But I have had a lot more that I had to get even more extreme with.  I  never had one that couldn't be cleared  Ii think at this point you need professional help.

[gunnut69]

Sorry for your problem but a smith is the way to go.  I wish I could tell you the things I've taken from rifle barrels!  From 12-15 22 rimfire bullets to 2 sections of aluminum cleaning rod.  The latter were both wedged into the same bore!  As to damaging the bore with a rod, yes you can but with normal care it should not happen.  To clean a rifle a Stainless steel rod(1 piece) is likely the best.  The coated rods say they don't embed but they are softer than the steel of the barrel so if grit is allowed in with them the barrel will suffer. The Carbon fiber rods I haven't used or had enough experience with to form an opinion.  I still prefer steel.  Stainless dosn't rust (a plus) as easily and polish the rod.  Keep it clean AS you clean with it and avoid excessive cleaning.  Also clean from the breach if possible.

[Bug]

Patriot,
 At this point, you can hardly make things worse... Except by wedging MORE things in the barrel.
 One thing you might try:
Get a piece of brass brazing rod close to bore diameter. The local welding shop or parts house should have something. You might need several lengths - it's cheap. Fill the bore over the obstruction with oil. any kind, the heavier, the better. I use motor oil. Put a tight patch(s) over the end of the rod to work as a gasket. Then tap the rod sharply with a mallet - wood, rawhide, rubber, etc. You only want 2-3" of rod sticking out of the bore at a time, as this prevents the rod from flexing/bending. As you progress down the bore, refill with oil, and use a longer rod, if needed. It does need to be FLAT on both ends. Be sure to stop soon enough so you can remove the rod with a pair of vise-grips.
 This method of "hydraulicking" a bore obstruction out has worked for me many times, and I haven't damaged a bore yet. It doesn't ALWAYS work, though. Filing a couple of grooves around the end of the rod helps it hold the patch like a jag. You can do this with a file and a drill.
 I've used steel rods on occasion, when I couldn't find brass, but I can't recommend it due to the possibility of trashing a crown, or chamber, depending on which way you're going. Whichever way, you want to move the obstruction the shortest distance.
 GOOD LUCK, and hope this helps..............Bug.

[Patriot_1776]

That is an interesting procedure you mentioned, Bug; never heard or thought of it before.  Chances are most likely I'll take it to a Gun Smith this coming week.  Thanks to all for the replies and tips.

 
-Patriot

[Alaninga]

you probably won't be able to DRIVE OUT anything in the bore now as you have wedged foreign material in from BOTH ends! Driving from either end will make all worse.
Use a steel rod with a pointed self tapping sheet metal screw soldered into the end. An old female steel cleaning rod works fine. Tap the screw into the plastic piece [from the rear?]and PULL it out. IF the plastic piece comes out,,THEN you may be able to drive out the wooden dowel.
Alan in GA.

[the record for me is 18 lead pellets removed from a Benjamin pellet rifle owned by a known outdoors writer!-I rebuild / restore antique air rifles].

[Patriot_1776]

Got an update for ya.  Took the bbl in to a Smith.  He was unable to remove the obstruction as yet; so we'll see if it can be removed hydraulically.  Hopefully that should do it.  

You can bet: LESSON LEARNED!!!

 
-Patriot

[KN]

Sounds like one I got into awhile back. Buddy of mine brings an A-R over with a bullet stuck in the throat from a round that was too long. He ejected the case and the bullet stayed in the bore. He then took a 3/16" wooden dowel and tried to knock it out from the muzzle end. The dowel swedged around the bullet point and was stuck as well. Then when he tried to pull the dowel out he managed to break it off even with the end of the barrel. Then he tried to use a screw to pull the dowel out and messed it up about an inch deep into the end of the barrel. We ended up disassembling the barrel and chucked it up in a lathe and used a long drill to put a hole in the base of the bullet. Then used a screw and washers as a puller to get the bullet out. Then a brass rod to push the rest of the crap out of the barrel. Had to cut about 1/4" off the barrel and re-crown it. If he had used a brass rod with a small hole in it to center in the bullet in the first place I'm sure it would have popped right out.  KN

[gunnut69]

Isn't experience a wonderful teacher!

[KN]

Isn't that the truth! Unfortunately I have one friend that makes me cringe every time he says, "I've got a gun that needs_____". I just know he has screwed some thing up royally.   KN

[lostchild]

I don't know about a lot of things but is there a solvent that would eat the nylon but not hurt the bore?  Just a thought. ....lost

[gunnut69]

Acetone might.  It's the most powerful of the solvents normally available.  Very volotile and flammable as gasoline, perhaps even worse conssidering it's volatility.,.  The real problem is working so deep in such a small hole.  A small drill with a brass disk to keep it centered could drill the middle out of the ball, relieving the compression..  Acetone will even destroy wood over a period of  time.

[KN]

gunnut69's drill idea might be a good one. Have a brass plug made that just fits the bore, put a drill through it with just a little of the tip sticking out with a brass extension that will reach and drill it out a little bit at a time by hand. Once the pressure is relieved it should come out pretty easily.  KN

[Tom H.]

I have to chime in on this one because I was in barrel hell a few weeks ago.
Was lapping a barrel and foolishly went with a longer lap that I should have. It got pressed into the grooves and was hopelessly locked 12" from either end of the barrel.
Finally got it out by sweating a drill into the end of a cleaning rod and center drilling the lap.
Placed the whole thing in the lathe and used the tailstock as a press and pushed it out of the gun.
Once there was a hole in the center it wasn't a problem.
Try the same thing with your .17.
It is a really small hole, but if you turn a cleaning rod into a drill extension it should do the trick.
It will definately take out the jag, and the wood should come out the same way it went in.
Keep the drill short.

Good luck.

Tom

[Flash]

I had this happen in a similar fashion to a 22 rimfire bolt gun. The orange plastic cleaning rod jags in my kit ripped out of the rod and was lodged in the barrel with a patch. Fearing crown damage, I pulled a bullet from a loaded round, poured 5 grains of BLACK POWDER in the chamber end and with the muzzle pointed straight up, POOF! There went the jag and the patch. This is straight out of the book on things NOT to do but it worked for me. I can just imagine the comments on this one. :eek:

[Keith L]

I bought a .36 Navy Arms Mule Ear a few years ago with a bronze brush broken off in the barrel.  I shot that one out, but only because I could blow air through the barrel.  Had it been a solid block I would have done something else.  The chance for bad things happening is far to great with a solid blockage.

[Judson]

I know this will not help you out now but if you ever get an aluminum rod or jag stuck lye and hat water will eat up the aluminum but BE CAREFUl it is caustic!!!!    Stuck bore brushes can be eaten out of a barrel with Barnes CR-10 but again bee careful!!!

[graveyard dog]

if all else fails drill and tap the end of the barrel for a zerk (grease fitting) then use your grease gun and hydraulic it out. you'll have to cut and recrown but it'll save the barrel

[gregg454]

graveyard dog never thought of that . I do know that has been done in a M.L. through a breach plug or flash hole.