Author Topic: Re: Best 200 yd Whitetail Bullet for .30-30 (Read 2656 times)

dawei · « **on:** March 25, 2005, 04:28:59 AM »

Quote from: .44 Mag

Am thinking about getting a .30-30 barrel for my wife to hunt with. She loves shooting my .45-70 Handi, but all but the Trapdoor loads are too much for her (but she'll shoot t/d loads all day!).

Assuming near max published loads, what's the best deer bullet for .30-30 at 200 yds? The usual 150-170 gr FP, The 130 Speer, 130 Spitzer, 125 Ballistic Tip?

I don't mean numbers, those are easy enough to look up. I mean actual performance on deer at that range.

I'm trying to decide between getting a .30-30, or just getting a .308 and loading it down a bit. Many thanks, .44 Mag

Win Case
Win LR Primer
30.0gr IMR3031
170gr Hornady Flat Point Bullet

Piney · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2005, 04:52:51 AM »

Might want to give the 7mm 08 a look see-got one for wife in this cal. (youth model) and it is recoil friendly. It will also reach out and touch those critters.
Good luck!

Chainsaw · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2005, 05:12:54 AM »

130 or 140 grain Barnes X bullet. Very low recoil, best accuracy (out of my handi's) and great deer killing ability. Yon can then use the 130 grain Hornady for practise loads.........Chainsaw

James B · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2005, 05:51:52 AM »

The 125 and 150 grain Nosler Ballistic tips work well in the Contender and should work even better in the Handi Rifle. For 200 yards I would use one of the pointed bullet for better retained energy and trajectory.

handirifle · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2005, 06:08:47 AM »

Never used them, (I know this is paper data) but I agree with James. The ONLY substitute to bullet weight for retained downrange energy will be velocity. The Ballistic tips will serve you well in that category and I'd vote for the 150 for the best comprimise in trajectory and retained energy.

In addition the ballistic tip bullets should open up well at that point.

Other than that I'd say stick to factory 170gr. In the longer range it will perform better. With a 150 zero (1.8" high at 100yds) the 150gr and the 170gr are BOTH only 4" low. The ballistic tip will be a bit better but not much.

On further reflection, I say go with the factory or equivelent 170gr loads. Mild recoil good energy at 200yds and a bullet designed for the velocities you're shooting at.

Sourdough · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2005, 07:45:54 AM »

The Nosler Ballistic tips are my choice for the 30-30 cartridge. I shoot a Contender 30-30 carbine and have good results with them. I use it for Caribou, and take it to Texas and Tennessee for whitetail. I notice a big differance with trojectory between my hand loads with the ballistic tip and my brothers flat nose loads.

JPH45 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2005, 03:56:49 PM »

The 150 Ballistic tip without question. 2300 fps + is easily achievable with book loads. Try H335, BL-C2, Reloder 15

Winchester offers a factory 170 grainer with 200 yard ballistics, their Supreme loading, kinda pricey for 30-30 ammo though.

glock29 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2005, 05:34:30 AM »

I vote to not even try to find a 200yd bullet for the 30/30.
It is NOT an acceptable 200yd. DEER cartridge.

Go for the 308 or 7/08 !
They are REAL 200yd cartridges !

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2005, 08:56:03 AM »

Quote from: glock29

I vote to not even try to find a 200yd bullet for the 30/30.
It is NOT an acceptable 200yd. DEER cartridge.

Go for the 308 or 7/08 !
They are REAL 200yd cartridges !

Perhaps not to you ...but to many others it is more than adequate and is a REAL 200 yard deer cartridge...even in the form of a lever action using only flat tip bullets...it has accounted for more heads of animals from the largest to the smallest than you or I will ever look at...and while the 308 and it's spin off the 7-08 are great cartridges in their own right...we are talking about deer sized animals here...not elk...and FWIW the 30-30 has been used on elk as well...along with moose...and even the large bears...not something I would go about intentionally hunting but...never-the-less...has been done.....For the Handi....the 130 x-bullets seem to be one of the better choices... from my search on these here...have been successfully driven up to 2500-2600 fps...and if started off at 2600fps..it will still have well over 1300ftlbs of energy at 200 yards and is still traveling over 2100fps at the same...with a 200 yard zero you'll be 2.37" high @100...0"@200...and -9.98" low @300 yards...with not quite 1100ftlbs of energy @300 yards....so it's more than adequate for deer size game...and this will be a load I work on for my 30-30 Handi over the next few months...along with a loading on the opposite end of the velocity spectrum...and that is a very mild cast bullet load...

Mac

JPH45 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2005, 11:21:20 AM »

JPH45 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2005, 11:23:57 AM »

I guess the 309 JDJ isn't a deer cartridge either, although JD reccommeds it for game up to 400 pounds at 300 yards with the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic tip. Oh by the way, the 309 JDJ is a ballistic twin to the 30-30.

zapper223 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2005, 05:38:03 PM »

The first rifle I ever deer hunted with was a 30/30 with a 4x scope. To make a blanket statement that the 30/30 isn't a good 200 yd. gun is without merit. I have taken several deer at 200+ yds. with a marlin 30/30 and 150gr. flat nose bullets . I really enjoyed hunting with the 30/30 and have a friend that even though he has numerous rifles uses a 30/30 exclusivley . Granted most of the deer he takes are at less than 200yds. and as far as that goes most deer are taken at less than 200yds. but the 30/30 is more than capable of taking deer sized game at 200+ yds. Has, and will continue to do so after were all dead and gone. And I forgot to mention the deer I have taken at 200 or more yds. seldom went more than a few yds. if they didn't drop in there tracks.
zapper :-)

Brithunter · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2005, 10:14:47 PM »

Hi All,

I am new here having just being directed to this site after aquiring a Baikal single shot rifle in .222 Rem. However before I spotted the single shot forum I saw this one and this thread.

Despite what "glock29" says the 30-30 is easily a 200 yard deer rifle, it all depends on the bullet, it's starting velocity and it's ACCURACY! Whilst my 30-30 rifle is not a single shot as it's a bolt action which I have been shooting for a number of years now using handloads with Hornady 130 Grn spire points at a velocity of 2800 fps....................... yes you read it right velocity of 2800 FPS.

Years ago I picked up a magazine with an interesting article in it, which was a Pettersens Rifle shooter and the article was about "Soup up the old 30-30" now using their data and H-335 powder is how I am getting this velocity. I am about to retire my first 30-30 cases as after about 6 reloads the primer pockets are no longer as snug as they were, these are the only cases I have used and are of Winchester manufacture. The funny thing is I can use the same load except for changing the bullet for a 150 grn flat point and get about the same velocity. Although I would love to try the 150 grn spitzer type bullets I cannot as the magazine is not long enough to seat them properly, it was built with the std 170 Grn Winchester factory round in mind.

Accuracy well if this works you will see a 3 shot group shot from a rest at 100 yards, I have shot quite a few groups like this with this rifle :-

Now as the Handi Rifles do come chambered for cartridges like the 7.08 and 308 Win then it would easily handle these handloads as the pressures are around same as the .308 acording the Pettersens pressure barrel tests.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2005, 02:38:38 AM »

, Welcome aboard Brithunter, come often and stay late, this is a great place to visit!!! I enjoyed your post and wonder if you could be a bit more specific with your load data? I have a recently aquired 30-30 barrel and your loading sounds great...Thanks, and nice to have you here....<><.... :grin:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2005, 05:41:47 AM »

Sounds to me he has done went and turned it into a 30-30 Ackley...and I do remember that article he is speaking about...

Mac

fish280 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2005, 06:09:03 AM »

yes, welcome brithunter. nice of you to visit from over at hunter's life.
i had a scoped model 94 for which i handloaded 170 grain speers over w 748. a starting velocity of 2,350 fps yielded an excellent load out to 200 yards or so. i dropped a whitetail at 195 measured yards. thump and bump. that longish bullet carried very well. should have kept that carbine. it was one of the good ones.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2005, 06:12:02 AM »

Quote

dropped a whitetail at 195 measured yards. thump and bump.

I like that saying...

Mac

Brithunter · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2005, 06:31:10 PM »

Hi All,

Hmmm well let's try this again

My rifle is a bespoke built rifle and a one off, the action would normally have been used on a .243 or .308 so the pressures I am loading to are normal for this action.

Do not use this loading data in lever actions or weak single shots!

As per normal handloading procedures, start at least 10% below and work up carefully.

130 grn Hornady #3020 Rem 9 1/2 primer in Winchester case. 40.0 grains of H-335 loaded to a COL of 2.660"

Here is the rifle and fruits of this handload taken just before Christmas :-

fish280 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2005, 02:50:50 AM »

bh: the handi sb2 receiver can handle 270 win pressures, so loading the .30-30 close to what you're running with your sweet little bolt gun are within reason. couple of guys here shoot the 130-150 grain spire points at .300 savage velocities.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2005, 03:05:02 AM »

Thanks for responding to that "weak single shots" reference fish280. I must admit it had my dander up for a second or 2 but I soon realized that misconception has been around a long time. Also I am sure Brithunter has our best interests at heart and rightly so. I am fairly sure his beautiful bolt action has a very strong action...
Brithunter, thanks for the info. I will now do more research and if I do decide to go with it I will approach it very cautiously and from the bottom limits of the loading, being always aware of signs of rising pressure.
Thanks, and again, it's nice to have you here with us....<><.... :grin:

fish280 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2005, 04:38:23 AM »

bh has some fantastic rifles and is very generous with times, pics, expertise, etc. he'll be a good addition to the board. hope he can bag a handi or two over there on the isles.

bajabill · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:37:38 AM »

BH, did I understand that statment, You are pushing 150 out at 2800 fps

fish280 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2005, 06:31:07 AM »

he's pushing the 130-grain hornady to that velocity.

bajabill · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2005, 06:39:17 AM »

Quote from: Brithunter

Hi All,

The funny thing is I can use the same load except for changing the bullet for a 150 grn flat point and get about the same velocity. Although I would love to try the 150 grn spitzer type bullets I cannot as the magazine is not long enough to seat them properly,

THis is what caught my attention. I always heard the rule of thumb for when you dont have a load for a certain weight bullet, got the the next heavier bullet, use that data and you should get about the same velocity with the lighter bullet. This is a conservative application of extrapolation. Going to a heavier bullet with the same load is not conservative.

fish280 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2005, 06:52:23 AM »

ah. i missed that. well, that's smokin' from that little case. 2,600-2,700 i can much better see from a bolt gun. whew.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2005, 08:03:48 AM »

Geting 2500- 2600 fps with a 130 spitzer out of a 30-30 isn't that difficult and it's easier with the 125BT's...and now with the 130 Barnes Triple shocks...may even be eaiser than other bullets...even in our Handi's...it takes a-lot of playing around with different powders/primers and bullet lenghts to find a right combination to have the pressures down enough not to flatten the primers and have it shoot accuratly...granted...it's going to be over any recommended loads for a 30-30 lever action on everthing...but still within the pressure limits of the brass and Handi action....put it in a beautiful bolt action like he has...and won't be anyproblem at all...and that is a real purty bolt gun...

Mac

Chainsaw · « **Reply #26 on:** March 30, 2005, 11:03:55 AM »

I found that when taking my NEF 30-30 handi to 2700 fps with the Barnes 130 grain XBT, C.O.L. was a real finicky thing and as much as .0010 more towards the lands would really make pressure signs rise.

I cannot get to 2600 fps with my older pre-bancruptcy H&R. and notice big differences in the chambers of the two. I wouldn't and don't want to push the older model anyway.

I've been experimenting with this for over 5 years now and found W748 the best I have tried, but haven't used H335. I have used many different primers and have found CCI 250's and Rem 9 1/2M to work the best in my rifles with the Barnes 130 XBT. Special attention should be payed to brass weight as the closer to 130 grains your empty deprimed trimmed brass weigh, the lower the pressure signs were on the spent casing. WW Super and R-P's were the ones I used. Some modern WW's and Federals weighed the most, some going over 140 grains on my scale.........Chainsaw

Brithunter · « **Reply #27 on:** March 30, 2005, 09:11:58 PM »

Hi All,

Sorry if I offended any of you, however as I know little about the Handi-Rifles except what I have read recently, and I have only just been informed that it's available in 270 Win and 25-06 so will happily accept these pressures, however you must admit that not ALL single shot actions out there will do so. Using High Pressure reloads in some of the weaker actions will really ruin your day.

Yes I am getting just over 2700 fps with the sierra 150 grn Flat point bullet. I stopped using it, not through any pressure problems but it was simple pushing the bullet far harder than it was designed for. The one small Deer I shot with showed obvious signs of bullet break up so I stopped using it and concentrated on the 130 grain load. I can most likely increse the velocity of this load, but when I am getting one hole groups with it .................... do I really need to mess with it?

So far my experience with single shot rifles has always been with classics like the orignal Martini's, a Swinburns patent Martini sporting rifle in 577/450 which I no longer have. A .303 Martini AC11 (Artillery carbine) and a Martini Muscat .303 bore made for Oman. Then there is the .22 rimfires of which there is 2 small framed Martini's, a BSA Model 12/15 with Bull barrel and a Vickers Mk11 sporting rifle. I do have a restoration project which is a Snider sporting carbine but that's a long way from being done

Only last Sunday I picked up a Baikal MH18 in .222 Rem and it was due to this that I was directed to this site. We don't see the Handi-Rifles over here much nor the TC Encores or Contenders. They are trying to promote the Rossi single shots here just now. How successful they will be I am not sure.

Single shot rifles have alway been an upmarket thing here, with rifles from the custom makers in Ferlach Austria or the bespoke makers in Germany, Italy and France with a few from the best London and British makers, all of which are expensive. I have here a catalouge for Chapuis Arms of France which has some beautiful rifles in it including break action single shot ones which are real examples of Gunmaking art. However they are not cheap the cost of the base model is about $2700 US a Handi rifle it is not! Rather than upset those by going even further off topic I will not scan a photo from the brochure and post it unless asked to.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2005, 07:02:33 AM »

Brithunter:

I wasn't offended by what you said...that's 4 sure...and that is one nice looking 30-30 you got there...what's the barrel lenght on it...26"

...And a late Welcome Aboard to ya

Mac

MSP Ret · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:13:07 AM »

no offense here either brithunter. And please consider yourself asked to scan and post that picture!!! Thanks, I am sure you will be a welcomed and helpful addition to our group of Handiholics!!! (you don't have to own one the be one!)....<><.... :grin: