Author Topic: Fur and Feather Part II  (Read 1151 times)

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Offline Mattkc

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Fur and Feather Part II
« on: March 26, 2005, 02:24:43 PM »
Picked up my French Britt pup from Tri-River Kennel in Salina KS 2 weeks ago.  Spent 3 hours checking out the pups and parents finally got down 2 pups both with noses that wouldn't stop so it got down to the cute factor.  She is ten weeks old and the only training I've been doing is fun stuff like laying scent trails with a treats and fetching toys.  I got some bird and rabbit scent and use them on knotted socks.  She loves the bird scent but goes nuts over the rabbit scent.  I've decided not to do any fur training until I have her strong on birds.  I take her to the end of the block and there is a small park, wooded area and creek.  I cut her loose and let her run and explore.  When she isn't looking I'll toss the sock with bird scent into high grass or brush.  She will air scent it 8'-10' away and go in and retrieve it sort of she has to run around before she brings it to me.  She is not pointing yet but she is learning to use her nose and having fun.  The only commands I'm using so far are come, no and release usually  my finger.  She needs to learn my fingers are not chew toys.  One thing that I heard was Britts are very sensitive to correction but she takes correction well.  Next month I'm going to go to the local NAVHDA training day and spend some time watching dogs getting trained.  I'll wait before I take the pup let her get some size and I don't want her around gun fire yet.

Offline Don Fischer

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2005, 05:33:45 AM »
Remember that whatever you do in play training is a lesson taught. If you teach her something now that you don't want her to do later, you'll have to change the rule's later. Much easier to create the proper rule's now. Teaching her to come to you now and to stay with you are important. Letting her run around with the sock that smell's like a bird, is not good. It's a hoot for her but remember, SHE'S LEARNING. Take the same sock and put her on a check cord. Then take her into a hallway with all the door's closed and play with her. When she pick's up the sock, reel her in GENTLY. Let her hold it when she's with you and stroke her. DO NOT OPEN HER MOUTH WITH YOUR HAND TO GET THE SOCK! Instead, while holding her chin in your left hand, make one more stroke down her off side to the intersection of her gut cavity and her upper leg. Reach down with two finger's and hook that flap of skin gently lifting her and say "give" or whatever your release is, at the same time. She'll immediately turn loose the sock to remove your finger's. You take the sock and immediately release that flap of skin by straighting out your finger's.

That way she will learn to let go on command, to release immediately on command and NEVER associate the small irritation with you. While this whole thing will be a play thing for her, she's learning thing's you won't have to correct later. She really won't care if she play's this game in the hall where YOU control thing's or in the field where you control nothing.

Make your own luck
Don
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Mattkc

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2005, 07:50:19 PM »
I worried about the running around thats why I've started teaching her come.  She has cut down from running around 3 or 4 times to 1 or 2.  I'll try your method to get her to release I've been using the pinch the lip against the canine.  It works but is a bit to punitive for a pup.  I read about the hallway trick but mine has a stairway in the middle.  So I'm going to get a large piece of cardboard to block it.  Took her into the back yard today to practice come.  She keeps trying to figure out how to beat the system.  I had her to the point where she was coming pretty good and cutting down getting a treat to every other time.  What she is doing now as soon as I snap on her 15' retractable leash she runs to the end and before I even give the command she comes back wanting her treat.  When I didn't give her the treat she ran back to the end of line  turned around  came back set down wanting her treat.   This training a pup thing is new to me I trained military and police dogs for years.  But they were  1 1/2 to 2 years old before training started.  You didn't want to start until the dog was mature and you knew what you had because if he didn't pan out the early retirement plan was a bitch.

Offline Don Fischer

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2005, 05:46:39 AM »
Get rid of the retractable 15' leash and replace it with a 25', probally 1/4 or 3/8 cotton rope for now. The retractable leash has no finesse. In other words, it works like a winch. You only want to pressure her enought to get her going in the right direction. Learn to slide the rope thru your hand's and let it out, in smooth motions. It's your control and your immediate means to gain response. Remember from military dog training, timing is everything! There's lots of way's to get from point A to point B but if your timing is wrong, you create lot's of avoidable problem's.

On the tooth pinch thing, good to quit! What you don't want to do is associate anything unpleasant with anything in her mouth. Leave her mouth alone least she decide that the unpleasantness come's from the object in her mouth. If that happen's, the fix is forced retrieve training. Not an overly pleasant thought but very effective. In force retrieve training the dog usually goes down like a beat pup but, come's back in the end,IF IT'S DONE PROPERLY. Don't set her up for it.

If you have an old shot bag, it'll make a better retrieving buck than a sock. Also a wood dowel with square pices of wood at each end. The problem with the sock is that her teeth can hang up in the material. A shot bag cut down to size for her then stuffed tightly with kapok is a better choice that will later float. The wooden dowel with square blocks work's well but use the square's on the end. What they do is to raise the dowel making it easier for her to pick up the dowel.

If she'll  play at retrieving with these things, leave the scent out. Likely from what you said she will. Remember she's young and she's learning. With her there's a lot of association going on. If she goes for the buck that smell's like a bird and get's slapped in the face with a branch, or whatever, she may well associate the slap with the thing she's picking up AND the smell of a bird. Retrieving is retrieving and it's much easier to bring the bird in later. I might mention that in force retrieve training, it is completely done with wooden training dowel's. When that is complete, the dog is then changed over to a frozen bird and finally to a fresh killed bird.
 the purpose being to teach retrieving, not retrieving bird's. There's a   difference.

Couple thing's to remember; Never set your dog up to fail, pay attention to what your training, don't give a command you can't enforce (check cord)

How about a photo of this pup?

Don
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Don Fischer

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2005, 05:57:25 AM »
I might mention one more thing about treat's, elimanate them also.
she'll do all the thing's you want if you teach her. Now she's doing it for treat's. What happen's if you don't have treat's at some point? Use the check cord for come, then she has to. Never let your dog tell you no.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline rider

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2005, 08:30:58 AM »
Finally someone who knows what they are talking sbout when it comes to training?  Great advise!!

Offline Mattkc

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2005, 06:55:54 PM »
Thanks for the info I'm not wild about using treats only tried it due to reading it a couple of books.  Needless to say never used them with police dogs I trained but they were adults and their reward was a nice arm to chew on.  I was planning to quickly phasing them out.  I'll switch to a line she only weights 9 pounds so I'll start with 1/4".

Offline Don Fischer

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2005, 04:24:51 AM »
Remember one thing about the police dog's you trained and the hunting dog you have now. Their both dog's, your just teaching them to do different thing's. You likely have tucked away in your head a gerat deal of information on teaching dog's, let it out.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Mattkc

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Don sent you a PM
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2005, 04:26:26 PM »
Don check your PM

Offline Don Fischer

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2005, 03:25:13 AM »
I don't think I got it.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Mattkc

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2005, 03:19:26 PM »
I'll try again I must have a problem now I know why I have not heard back from a couple of PMs.  The PMs are in my sent box go figure.

Offline Don Fischer

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2005, 05:36:22 PM »
I got one from you but couldn't get one back, got an invalid session. You have an e-mail address?

dfischer@madras.net
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Mattkc

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Fur and Feather Part II
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2005, 11:13:42 AM »
Sent you a e-mail hopefully that will work.  mrupp2@kc.rr.com