Leupold's long eyebox

[Dave in WV]

Am I wrong or is the "long eyebox" Leupold is touted to have only on varible scopes? I understood it to only exist with the nonconstant eye relief of Leupold varibles. A fixed power scope even on Leupold scopes has a fixed eye relief.

[Graybeard]

I've never heard anyone refer to anything on a scope as an "eye box" except you. If you'll please define the term as you use it we might be able to better respond to your question. I just honestly do not understand what you are calling an "eye box" so cannot address your question.

[Dave in WV]

Quote from vernonp's post under "better optics" -  (I have one of the new FX 4 scopes on order now from the optic zone. I decided to change out the scope on my Kimber 84 308 to this scope because of the better sight picture or eye box as it's often referred to)

I first encountered the "long eye box" subject over on either 24 hour campfire or Hunt America by someone that posted under "Leupold". The basis of the long eye box claim is it is more forgiving for eye alignment and was pointed out how Leupold scopes don't have a constant eye relief. The distance between the min and max eye relief was refereed to as the eye box. The Leupold fans went into a feeding frenzy about it.

Vernon, I wasn't flaming you. Dave

[Graybeard]

Wild. Never heard the term eye box used before. Those guys at the 24 hour campfire are a bit strange in my opinion. It's definitely not a term used in optical theory classes I've taken and I've taken a BUNCH of them. made my living working optics for many years.

But given your definition of eye box yes it is a good thing to have. The wider the lattitude you have for eye placement the easier a scope is to use. This applies equally to side to side and front to back eye placement.

I've not used a fixed power Leupold in a long time but as I recall the feature is there same as in their variables.

All things about optics are compromises. Each manufacturer has to decide which feature they wish to emphasize and which to de-emphasize. No one scope can have all the features we want. To get one you must give up a bit on the others.

[Dave in WV]

GB, I guess what my question was if you have a fixed eye relief as you do on a fixed magnification rifle scope, how do you have the long eye box of the variable with the non constant eye relief? I can understand what you find as optimum for eye relief with scope "x" I may not find it the same. However, if the eye relief is constant how can you get the long eye box that was touted? The larger the exit pupil, the more you can be off of the bore axis of the optical instrument which is side to side alignment. With a fixed eye relief how can Leupold's scopes be different than brand X or Y ? I'm not arguing, I want to learn.  

[vernonp]

Dave--------I may have made a mistake on the name"eye box", I too first heard that on the other forum. I will try to explain what I like about the Leupold scopes. The Leupold scopes seems to me to be better at just throwing the rifle up and having an instant clear view. More like just looking out a window instead of being so aware that you are looking through a tube.-----------As I am learning there is indeed trade offs in scopes. As I said I am putting the Leupold 4 power on my Kimber 84 308. Because of the small size, weight and the great sight picture that I get. I also think it will balance better on this very light rifle.------------I just bought a CZ 500 in 270 and I am taking the 3x9x40 Nikon Monarch off the Kimber and putting it on the CZ. Hope this helps explain what I like about the Leupold whatever it's called.------Regards--vernonp

[Greybeard]

Well I admit to still having some confusion over your eye box terminology but tossing that aside. There is not just a single fixed point at which most scopes can be used. Yes there is a given point at which the view is optimum and yes that varies with most variables.

BUT with all of them you have some lattitude in eye placement. This is true both side to side which I don't think you are asking about and front to back which I believe you are asking about.

There is a fixed point in space behind the ocular lens of any optical device at which the theoritical focus point occurs. At this point you will best be able to view the image being transmitted thru the device. BUT move your head back a bit or forward a bit and you'll still be able to see the full view perfectly well. Same for side to side. Now just how much back and forth or side to side you can move your head and still maintain that full view strikes me as what you're calling an eye box.

All optical instruments whether binoculars, rifle scopes, pistol scopes or celestial or terrestial scopes have this situation. Shouldn't matter if fixed power or varible. At any one given power a variable is really fixed. Move it to another power and it is then a fixed power at that magnifcation. So there is no logical theoritical reason a fixed power scope wouldn't exhibit the same feature as a variable.

[Dave in WV]

Vernon and GB, thanks for the replies. Vernon, I hope the 4x works out to be what you want. It sounds like a very nice rig. GB, thanks for sharing your optics experience. I've learned a lot about optics and still don't seem to know much. I've learned to keep an open mind when deciding on optics and buy what I want. I haven't regretted it. Dave