Author Topic: Bullet Length  (Read 867 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« on: March 28, 2005, 09:02:04 AM »
Is there anywhere that you can go to look up the length of bullets?? I am doing some calculating with twist rates and want the know the length of bullets before I decide which ones to try.

Richars
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline bigjeepman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1108
  • Gender: Male
Bullet Length
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2005, 09:33:33 AM »
You might call or email the bullet companies as they are pretty good at helping their customers or potential customers.
5 Rules for Happiness
free your heart from hatred ... free your mind from worries ... live simply ... give more ... expect less

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2005, 09:42:23 AM »
Ifyou tell me the name, weight, weight, caliber and type e.i. HP, pointed, BT etc.
I can look them up as long as it is a reasonable number.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2005, 10:13:26 AM »
Fred,

Thanks for the offer. I am assuming you have your own data base and the info is not readily available? I am looking at 243 bullets and have not refined the list yet. 85 gr and up but I want to run some twist rate calcs. If I can't find it I will try to make the list as small as possible.

Richard
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline Haywire Haywood

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
  • Gender: Male
Bullet Length
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2005, 10:40:40 AM »
On this subject, is the overall length of the bullet or the length of the bearing surface that makes the difference?

Ian
Kids that Hunt, Fish and Trap
Dont Steal, Deal, and Murder


usually...

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2005, 10:54:04 AM »
I am looking at twist rate, velocity and bullet length to run some numbers on stablizing the bullet. These are the variabls on most of the calcs I can find.
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2005, 11:27:04 AM »
Name of Bullets          Length

Sierra 85 HPBT               .940"
"     "  100gr Spitzer       1.078"
Speer 85gr SPBT             .940
"    "   100gr SPBT         1.050

Nosler  90gr SBT          1.063
    "       95gr    "             1.098
Nosler Part  95gr            .985
   "        '      100gr          1.000

Horn.  87 gr SP              .930
  "      100 gr Sp             1.062
  "        95gr SST            1.100
  "        87gr  V-max       1.037

The bearing surface  has an influence on the BC. For twist rate the length is the most important for gyroscopic stability. If you are using the Greenhill formula increase the constant of 150 to 180. Not the best formula but not too bad.

Most other formulas are very involved and complicated and requires much hard to measure input.

These samples should give enough to work with
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2005, 11:34:27 AM »
Fred,

You are indeed a Gentleman and a Scholar. You sent me everything I was looking at except the Remington Corelokts and at their price I can afford to play.

Thanks again.

Richard
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2005, 12:45:43 PM »
Fred,

By the way the most interesting and seems to be most complete is found here
http://www.nfa.ca/nfafiles/cfjarchive/ballistics/bulletstabilitycalc.html

You have probably been to that sight before:)

Richard
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2005, 02:19:56 PM »
Richard.
This is a modified Greenhill formula with a changeable constant. The Greenhill formula stabilizes a bullet 1.7x when using the 150 constant. By changing the constant upward your factor of stabilization is reduced to about 1.25 when using a 180 constant.

Like I said it is a workable system, I have brought this up on my web site some time ago.

Don Miller wrote a new formula in March 05 PS Shooting Magazine. As said before this is a much more involved system. It deal with air temperature and barometric pressure. I thought maybe a guy can set up the formula on MS Excel to make it usable for most people. Like what you have above.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline JPH45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1145
Bullet Length
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2005, 04:26:16 PM »
Haywire, It is the length of the bullet.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2005, 05:34:53 PM »
Richard.
I have just about any bullet you can think of but no Remingtons data.
The 243 Rem 100gr PSP and or other Rem PSP bullets are somewhat shorter than other pointed bullets use  the Speer length and deduct  .030" thou. Perhaps some one has some and can give you a length.

I have a whole bunch of left over .243 bullets that I like to get rid off they just taken up space  

148 only 100 gr Hornady Spire Point .
100 only  87gr Hornady V-max           Box          
74 only Sierra 70gr Hollow point BT  
25 only Nosler/Winchester Silver Tips                  
100 only Starke 80gr H.P Varmint Match Bullets                    
18 0nly 95gr Barnes-X bullets  

Plus 200 270Win 90gr HP Sierra.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2005, 10:59:55 PM »
Fred,

How much do you want for them? That would give a some stuff to do even more testing.

Richard
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2005, 04:54:25 AM »
Richard.
I have to weigh them and find out how much it cost to send them. It may cost more than what the bullets are worth. I let you know. I make it worth your while if I can ship them reasonable.

I don't have as many any more just remember I sold some at the gun show. Hardly worth shipping
.
100 only 87gr Hornady V-max Box
100 only Starke 80gr H.P Varmint Match Bullets
25 only Nosler/Winchester Silver Tips
18 0nly 95gr Barnes-X bullets
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline GrampaMike

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 904
  • Gender: Male
Bullet Length
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2005, 02:53:30 PM »
Richard.

I have been looking for the same thing (bullet lengths).

I wrote to each bullet company.  To date the only answers have been no, they don't give out that info.

The one exception is Swift Bullets, they are posted in their loading manual.

So I thought I would buy a sample of bullets from each company and measure them myself.  One hundred each seems to be the minimum.  Expensive route to go.  Been hoping to find a database of bullet information on the internet that includes the length.  So far no luck.
Grampa Mike
U.S. Army Retired

"Say what you mean, mean what you say"
Father of 2 GREAT sons, and 9 grandchildren.

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2005, 03:58:54 PM »
Grampa Mike,

Maybe we should start our own database and post it in the FAQ section. With all the people that are shooting these and reloading we should get a lot of data.

Richard
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2005, 05:39:18 PM »
Richard.
The data base I have in my ballistics program is quite extensive, but I don't know how old it is. Bullet makers constantly experiment with different alloys, boat tails and ogives which changes the length. Even in the same box they can vary as much as five thou.

The solid copper Barnes bullets are very dimensional consistent and are in the match grade category.

By using only bullets with flat tails, bullets are generally more accurate than boat tails. Besides boat tails are not required for any shooting under 500yds. Flat tails are also easier on barrels and throats.

The only BT bullet I use is the Barnes TSX because of its outstanding performance. It has become my dedicated 25cal hunting bullet. I tested them today in the 257 Roberts and I am very pleased with the accuracy, little more tweaking is needed with the charge.

My ballistics program indicated the TSX bullets might only be marginal stabilized. But that is not the case. At 3150 ft MV they work just fine.
The discrepancy can come from various lack of input such as the center of gravity and the center of pressure  that can't be determined by ordinary means, nor is the exact specific gravity available.

I found out that this bullet was still stable at just over 3000 ft producing a 1" group, when calulations predicted margional stabilization at 3190ft using 125% gyroscopic stability. This factor is plenty for ordinary hunting ranges. Nothing like shooting to find out if they are stable or not.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline GrampaMike

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 904
  • Gender: Male
Bullet Length
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2005, 03:15:19 PM »
Good Idea Richard...

Which Ballistic Programs give bullet lengths?
Grampa Mike
U.S. Army Retired

"Say what you mean, mean what you say"
Father of 2 GREAT sons, and 9 grandchildren.

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2005, 07:39:47 PM »
GrampaMike.
Quick-Load has a bullet and powder data base.

Grampa Fred  :D
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline GrampaMike

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 904
  • Gender: Male
Bullet Length
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2005, 05:21:48 AM »
Thanks Grampa Fred.

Will purchase a copy, been meaning too, but did not know which one was good.
Grampa Mike
U.S. Army Retired

"Say what you mean, mean what you say"
Father of 2 GREAT sons, and 9 grandchildren.

Offline rmtaylor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Bullet Length
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2005, 02:35:08 PM »
Fred,

I quickload worth the money? 149.95 seems pretty steep but I don't minds paying for something if it is worth the price.

Anybody else out there using it??

Richard
NRA Member
Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Bullet Length
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2005, 04:35:42 PM »
Richard.
Quote
I quickload worth the money?


Download a  demonstration  and judge your self.  Find QL on Google.

Quick -Load is a very sophisticated hand loading and development tool for experimenters and knowledgable hand loaders.

Can't tell you whether it is worth your money, myself I would not be without it.

Read all about it before you decide.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.