Why no 45/"XXX" or 50/"XXX" ????

[1911crazy]

With all these newer macho suppose to be calibers what ever happened to the older calibers???  Like the 45/90?  the 45/100, 45/120??? Or the 50/90 or 50/120??  Don't you think they would be an awesome collector shooter rifle right now??  I would think "we" could have some fun here don't ya think??  We could send some big cast bullets down the pipe for sure and in a modern gun I think we could pump them up too.  I think we could have a new toy here to play with and i think it just being something different it could be very interesting too.  I think the bigger bores need some new interductions too because i'm getting mid and small bored to death.  Is there any manufactures listening out there???  Lets go for some big bore gusto!!!!!   Bring some old timers back again.                                                                      BigBill

[quigleysharps4570]

Or this would be different.  :-)

[Redhawk1]

BigBill, all the cartridges you mentioned are still in use. More in the black powder cartridges. Shiloh Sharps, C Sharps, and some others are still making them for Black Powder cartridge Shooters. There are some that are using smokeless but I think BP is the more popular of the two.  

[1911crazy]

I'd like to see more in smokeless powder and possibly a lever action rifle too besides in a sharps rifle.  I think the big bore guys are left out hanging when it comes to either new or older not available calibers or even new rifles.  I just want to see some old buffalo calibers moved up into our modern time.  I think they could be redone into some fun calibers. I want to get a 45/70 marlin but i would like something in a larger caliber with a longer barrel I'm sure there's room to push the limits more in these calibers.   Maybe some european manufacturer will read this and get the jump on the american manufacturers who always seem to be sleeping.  Another thing i don't understand why are some of these calibers so expensive in the modern day sharps too.  Since there quicker to manufacturer than a lever action they should be at least the same price or a tad higher but not double the price which i think keeps a lot of shooters and sales of them low too.                            BigBill

I've seen one of the biggest collections in my area years ago of all the old buffalo guns and it was awesome but the funny thing is non of them had short barrels like the modern reproductions were seeing now.  If i'm going to buy one I want a real looking one.  And the 70/150 gets my vote too because some of those older buffalo guns sure had bigger looking bores than 45 or 50cal too and 70 sounds more like it!!!!!!!  The 70/150 sure sounds like a long range round and it has plenty of knock down power all in one shot??  That gets my vote now your talking!!!

[Redhawk1]

BigBill, I don't think you can put a Shiloh Sharps in the same category as a lever action. There is a lot of workmanship that goes into those Shiloh Sharps. I don't think sales are low on Shiloh Sharps, expensive, yes. If there was not a demand there would not be a 10 month waiting list for them.

Also the 45-90, 45-110 are very long cartridges and I think they would be a little more difficult to manufacture with the long action.  Most Sharps shooters will not shoot nothing but black powder in there Shilohs.  

[1911crazy]

I think the longer caliber round like a 45/90 or 50/120 could be achieved in a lever action by playing with the gear rack with different pinion ratio's or maybe a twin rack with multiple gear ratio's to make it work properly but overall i think it could be made rather easily I think anything is possible.  I think even a new model spencer in this old caliber would be neat too.  I just think its time for something new and different but old at the sametime in the big bore buffalo guns.                    BigBill

Do you think there is a market for new shooters who want a buffalo gun but not in black powder?  I think there is.  I would like a more modern smokeless round to play with and reload for it would be just as much fun too. It could open up a whole new market for a bunch of new modern shooters.  I think there is a lot of us who stay away from the blackpowder rifles and who would buy a modern smokeless round in an old style rifle. I think its time for a change and time to move on with something new yet old too.

[Redhawk1]

You can shoot smokeless in a Shiloh Sharps, Pedersoli etc. But it is a black powder cardinal sin.  :-D .

You just can't shoot smokeless with high pressures out of originals. Other than a cleaner barrel you will not accomplish much in my opinion.  

I am sure you could have a Ruger #1 re chambered for a 45-90 or 45-110 and shoot smokeless loads out of it all day. And achieve the velocities you my be looking for.  

[msorenso]

or a 45-90 or 100, 120 in a Buffalo classic?  Just my 2 cents

[Lawdog]

I have a Shiloh Sharps .45-110(yeah the Quigley rifle) the wife bought me as a present.  Lots of fun but so far I haven’t taken it hunting yet.  My other “old timer” is a Win. Model 1876 Deluxe in .50-95 that my Great Grand Uncle bought new in 1884 in Sacramento(the original dated sales receipt was under the butt plate).  After having it appraised it doesn’t get shot at all anymore.  While the “old time” cartridges are fun to fool around with, even the occasional hunt, but for everyday hunting the more efficient modern cartridges are much better.  I built up a modern version of the old Sharps Buffalo gun.  A Ruger No. 1 in .450 Marlin.  Works great and is deadly on Wild Hogs.  Lawdog
 

[glock29]

I'd like to see a 45-120 pushed to the max (50,000psi Ruger level loads) like the 45-70 level 3 loads are in the loading manuals. That should be in the realm of the 458 Lott !
You would get interest out of me then....however I have NO interest in a cartridge that actually pushes a 350 to 405 gr bullet SLOWER than my hot-loaded 45-70.

[pc]

Get a Doug Turnbull 50-110 on a modern 1886, with starline brass you can get a 525 gr bullet out at 2200 fps from a lever gun.

I have just got my 1886 back from a local smith here in Oz who converted it to 50-110, I haven't fired it yet but it's my favourite gun  

[glock29]

I'd like to see some published loading data for the 45-110/45-120 or even the 45-90 pushed to +P+ levels like the "level 3" 45-70 loads.
Something that would provide an obnoxious level of recoil and velocity (something between the 458 Win and the 458 Lott) from my NEF Handi-Rifle.
If I could get this data, I'd consider getting mine re-chambered; as far as slow 'original BP style' versions of these cartridges throwing 'bowlin bawl' weight bullets, I have NO use for them.
In my book, unless a longer cartridge has more power and energy, it is WORTHLESS, period !

A NEF in 45-120 at 50k pressure would be a RIOT to hand to a "friend" at the range for grins as their shoulder is abused for one shot !
The look of bewilderment/shock on the face of my friends after touching off my 458 Lott is priceless !

[Wilbe Lead]

Hi pc
What kind of powder you using to get that 525 up to 2200 pfs?
As for 50 cals I gave up on a Factory making the guns we dream about.
I got a 50 Alaskan in a Marlin and 500 linb in a blackhawk custom made.
They are both a lot of fun to shot.You also get some looks at range when you touch one off.
I would like to see Winchester make us a 50-110 but thats just a dream.
Later
Wilbe Lead

[KSR]

Or this would be different.  :-)

This guy is working on a 87 conversion to a 70-150 rifle. Preety Cool.

http://www.teamfireballcustomproducts.com/

[hubel458]

Maybe I can be a help to Ruger hotrodders,
with my 510HE, made from 475 #2 brass straightened out. 3.57 in long, 600 gr at 2800 fps plus.
It is rimmed like the oldtimers only hairier.
I tested it in an Enfield, but want to setup
in a Ruger #1 in the future.
Here is picture.In pic is 458 Win, then 510HE,
and my 458HE.,.ED

[Redhawk1]

Now them are some big ones.  :eek:  :grin:

[pc]

WL,

I have still not fired mine yet but Kev a fellow whom posts here occasionaly and on accurate reloading has a dave clay 50-110 and has gotton 2200 fps from a 425 gr.................................the powder here in Oz that will be best I think is AR2208 which is similar to your Varget I think ??

[doorgunner]

If you already own a 45-70, why on earth would you want a 45-90, 45-110, etc.?  There is nothing that walks the earth that a properly loaded 45-70 won't handle!  I do believe that if you check the Garrett Cartridge website, you will see that it has take elephant, cape buffalo, lion, and hippo, and all from a Marlin Guide Gun.  With performance like that, what more could you possibly need?

[pc]

If you already own a 45-70, why on earth would you want a 45-90, 45-110, etc.?  There is nothing that walks the earth that a properly loaded 45-70 won't handle!  I do believe that if you check the Garrett Cartridge website, you will see that it has take elephant, cape buffalo, lion, and hippo, and all from a Marlin Guide Gun.  With performance like that, what more could you possibly need?

Not because I need mate.............because I want  

[doorgunner]

If you already own a 45-70, why on earth would you want a 45-90, 45-110, etc.?  There is nothing that walks the earth that a properly loaded 45-70 won't handle!  I do believe that if you check the Garrett Cartridge website, you will see that it has take elephant, cape buffalo, lion, and hippo, and all from a Marlin Guide Gun.  With performance like that, what more could you possibly need?

Not because I need mate.............because I want  

Your absolutely correct.  As I sit here and admire more than my fair share of firearms that I have accrued through the years, your response makes a lot more sense!  Thanks for getting me back on track!   :grin:

[Lawdog]

As the old saying goes, “He who has the most toys wins.”  And I hate to loose.   :-D   Lawdog
 

[ruger4570]

You guys must be really tough, I have loaded up some pretty heavy loads for my Ruger #1 in 45-70 and it make the snot in your nose run..... Too much for me to play with..

[msorenso]

This maybe a dumb question, but I would like to shoot 45-90 or 45-120 out of a Rugar 1 or Buffalo classic.  My question is when loading these do they still us balck power or have they converted them over to smokeless  or both.  Thanks

[Lawdog]

This maybe a dumb question, but I would like to shoot 45-90 or 45-120 out of a Rugar 1 or Buffalo classic.  My question is when loading these do they still us balck power or have they converted them over to smokeless  or both.  Thanks

My .50-90 and .45-110 are both loaded using black powder.  Though about trying Hodgdon 777 but haven't so far.  Lawdog
 

[msorenso]

What guns do you have these in?

[quickdtoo]

I've shot 95gr of T7 in my 45-120 BC, shot good, got a fair amount of leading with the Montana Precision 500gr bullets. But the T7 costs the same as most smokeless powders and I can get the same or better velocity with half the powder charge using XMP5744...

Tim

The little cartridge on the left is a 45-70...

[msorenso]

Any idea of ballistics you get from your 45-120?  Thank you.

[Redhawk1]

I've shot 95gr of T7 in my 45-120 BC, shot good, got a fair amount of leading with the Montana Precision 500gr bullets. But the T7 costs the same as most smokeless powders and I can get the same or better velocity with half the powder charge using XMP5744...

Tim

The little cartridge on the left is a 45-70...

I like the way the 45-120 makes the 45-70 look small.  

[msorenso]

Who did the change from 45-70 to 45-120?  Also approx cost?  Thankyou!

[quickdtoo]

No chrono work yet, hoping to in the next month or so...public range has been too busy to set one up and play with it.

A local smith did it, $135 was the cost, too much if ya ask me, he won't get any more work from me, he told me $80 which included $40 for the reamer rental and shipping. Then he scored the outside of the barrel when doing the machining. I'm having Wayne York do my work now, he just did a 25-06 to 338-06 rebore and reblued the 45-120 BC barrel for me and is working on rechambering/reboring a 38-55 Target to 405 Winchester.

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eoregunsmithing/index.html

I forgot to add the load data from AA....shooting 43gr of 5744 and the 405 gr rem, I figure velocity to be around 1650fps or so.

http://accuratearms.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/ObsoleteCartridges/45%20120%20Sharps%20Straight%20page%20365.pdf