Author Topic: Rolling block serial # (Read 2200 times)

JCP · « **on:** April 04, 2005, 10:15:45 AM »

Today I purchased an early no#5 rolling block rifle. It has breech block like no#1 except it has small fireing pin. It is chambered for 7mm rimless and has bar extractor. On both tangs it has the #79 stamped. Does anyone know if this is a serial #? If it is i've got one of the first no#5's. The hardest thing I had to do when I bought it was to keep a straight face when the gun shop owner asked if I would be willing to pay $60.00 for it. :lol:

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2005, 11:33:09 AM »

The early original rolling blocks did not have serial numbers.

JCP · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2005, 02:28:55 PM »

I have 3 other rollers, two no#5's and one #1. They all have numbers on the side of the tang that's only visible with the butt stock removed. I think all the others have 4 digits but this one has only 2. I was just curious as to what they mean, or can tell us about the rifles. They all have the number on left side (I think) and it's on the upper and lower tang. I realize they could have put it on both tangs so they could rematch trigger guard with frame after fitting parts.

John Traveler1 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2005, 07:47:42 PM »

I believe that the numbers stamped into the upper and lower tangs represent "batch" numbers for frame production, and not serial numbers. Remington's military customers did not require serial numbers on their deliveries. The sporting rifles carried receiver and barrel serial numbers, but not the military models.

The bar type extractor could mean early OR late production because Remington seemed to jump back and forth bettween that and the rotary extractor, maybe using up receivers it had in inventory.

What are the tang markings on your Number 5? Does it have two lines or three lines with patent dates? What are the patent dates?

JCP · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2005, 02:50:09 AM »

John, this one has three lines. Stamping starts with Remington,(not E Remington). First pat. date is May 30, 1864 and last one is march 18, 1874 the best I can make it out. I think this would make it an early if i'm not wrong.

John Traveler1 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2005, 09:59:22 PM »

JCP,

I just removed the buttstocks of four number 5 Rolling Blocks I had access to, and they all carried the "batch" numbers on the side of the upper and lower tangs. One had a "379" number, and the others had 4-digit numbers. All carried the three-line Remington tang markings with the last patent date of March 16, 1874. This supports your idea of these being early production Remington actions because late blackpowder actions also use these tang markings.

I am still not convinced that the receiver/trigger guard numbers are serial production numbers. I believe it was the late Frank DeHaas ("Mr. Single Shot") that wrote that these were receiver "batch" numbers, and did not denote serialized production.

Does anyone have access to some Remington documentation that can verify this? I've waited for two years to find a copy of the newest RRB reference book, but no on has it!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2005, 01:12:00 AM »

I sold my original Rolling block and the book I bought on Rolling Blocks. I wish I still had it. It gave all the information you asked for. I got the book from Buffalo Arms. :-)

JCP · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2005, 02:54:19 PM »

About a year ago I gave my oldest son a no#5 action that I am sure has the three line stamp and a 1901 patent date. I'll bet it's real unique. Seems like there is a lot of conflicting information on these firearms. I have a book that even say's the no#5 is narrower than the no#1. I have measured both and all of them measure about 1 5/16".

I have 2 no#5's with no finish at all on them, just bare metal and they have been that way for about 2 years and they don't rust at all. Every thing else that my son touches will rust real fast but not these rollers, I wonder if they were made of nickle steel. I know the no#1's are supposed to be iron and no#5 steel, at least that's what i've read.

jh45gun · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2005, 05:30:45 PM »

Here is what Frank de Haas says in my copy of his book Single Shot Rifles and Actions All theThe large Remington Rolling BLock actions Numbers 1 Military and 1 1/2 Sporting I have seen were serial numbered in some manner usually with the number stamped on the lower tang. That same number if the rifle is all origional will be usually be found stamped on the left side of the upper tang, under the breech end of the barrel, in the forarm channel and on the inside front of the butt stock. Some times the serial number is stamped only on the left side of the upper tang. The sporting rifles will have a caliber designation the military rifles are unmarked as far as caliber. Some Remington actions may be unmarked except for a serial number if they were the early conversions from military muskets.

As far as the lines on the top of the tang he said the early ones said:
Remington's ILION NY USA Later ones started with E. Remington and Sons ect and the later ones will be Remington Arms Co ect Early ones may have one patent date and later ones two.

Hope this helps guys. Jim

marlinman93 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2005, 05:55:34 PM »

All my RB's have serial numbers, but then none of them are military. The earliest is a very early #1 Sporting rifle in .44SBN, with set trigger. The latest is a #2 Sporting rifle in .22 LR.
Of course all the #5's are late guns, as indicated by the chambering of 7x57 on most of them.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2005, 01:03:44 AM »

Quote from: marlinman93

All my RB's have serial numbers, but then none of them are military. The earliest is a very early #1 Sporting rifle in .44SBN, with set trigger. The latest is a #2 Sporting rifle in .22 LR.
Of course all the #5's are late guns, as indicated by the chambering of 7x57 on most of them.

The one I had was made in 1867 I think, I may be off a year or two. I don't have the gun here and can't remember right off hand. But I could not find a serial number anywhere.