Author Topic: Death and dying  (Read 1012 times)

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Offline big medicine

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Death and dying
« on: April 05, 2005, 05:48:36 PM »
I have just spent the last hour or so reading all the post on Teri Shivo and the Pope and their deaths. And it made me wonder how many people have seen some one die. And how many people have seen some one forced to live. I see it every day, it is my job. I reall seeing Teri's mother on TV pleading to stop the torture of her daughter and reinsert the feeding tube, and I couldnt help but think torture....just what would you call the last 15 years? If that isnt torture I dont know what is.

I have a patient right now that has been on deaths door step several times. And for this patient I believe would be a blessing. But her family is forcing her to stay alive because of all the guilt they have. So what do we do? We stick this patient with needles to draw blood, we stick IVs in for meds, we stick more needles to check labs, we stick needles in the arteries to check blood gases and on and on. And then by the miricle of medicine we SAVE the patient, and in a few weeks or months we repeat it all over again. Then we have problems with the feeding tube which sometimes requires surgical consult, then we deal with infection and on and on. The bottom line...we cant fix this patient. And if anyone out there thinks that laying in bed making a groaing sound and opening your eyes every now and then, and having no control of your bodily functions,  is life or quality of life then you need to experience it one way or another. As far as function the brain stem controls vital function like breathing and heart beat, it doesnt make us who we are, that comes from our brain and it is too bad that when our brain stops that our heart doesnt also.

as far as the morphine goes. We give morphine to make patients comfortable. It takes away the air hunger and allows patients to breath easer. Last month I lost 2 of my most favorite patients with in a few days of each other. One was with the 101st AB landed on D-Day and fought through the rest of the war with them. My other patient was a Vietman Vet. I have tears in my eyes thinking about them now, God knows how they touched my life and the profound respect I have for them. The Hospice nurses were able to make them comfortable with morphine at least we could help to ease their suffering.

Dehydration is a much better way to die then to drown in your own secretions.Patients are kept comfortable by keeping the mucus membranes of the mouth moist with glycerin swabs. although by the time patients reach this point they are usually unresponsive.

With IVs for hydration,when renal function decreases the fluids build up in the lungs and patients gurgle and drown in their own fluids, you only need experience seeing this once to leave a lasting impression.

Death is not always a bad thing. And there has not been a person born that will escape it. It is sometimes more cruel to force a person to live than it is to allow them to die. I do things every day that I do not agree with, but it is the will of the patient or the family. I have had patients refuse to get treatments for cancer that most likely would have saved their lives but they choose not to do it. I have also had kept patients alive when there is no hope and only agony. I do not make the choices, I only carry out the wishes. I only hope that some of my patients and GOD will forgive me for the times we forced them to remain alive only to look forward to another bout of agony. Health care providers get accused of playing God. It is the familes that do that, we only do what we are told. I wish I could play God some times, I would reach out and slap patients and family members upside the head to knock some sense in them.

If nothing else I hope this has opened peoples eyes to have a living will drawn up. So that your lives do not become a media circus and court battle. God forbid that one of your loved ones should have to make the choice based on what you told them in private and not have a signed will in hand to prove it to the world that is really what you wanted. They would be accused of every thing from wanting to collect the insurance in case of your death, to keeping you alive so as to collect your pension.

Offline jh45gun

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Death and dying
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2005, 06:18:42 PM »
WEll I lost my dad when I was 17 he was 69 and died from a Massive Heat attack his second heart attack in a year before that he was never really sick. (  He died in 69 so its been a while) My mom passed last year at the age of 87 from old age and she basically quit eating which is normal from what I understand as you get older you lose your appitite. Out of the two deaths it was easier on me with my dad as it happened so fast. Yea it was more of a shock as we did not expect it. But we did not have to sit and watch him die inch by inch either. In my moms case it was harder as we knew what the outcome would be and nothing you could do would change that. Dieing from old age is a lot different than some one dieing younger that maybe could be saved and live a while longer. When you die from old age there is no reversal and really there should not be as their bodies are shot and it is time to go and to let go. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline mellow_1

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Death and dying
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2005, 11:12:45 PM »
Very well worded Big Medicine. I feel very much the same as you.
 When someone close to me passes away, I believe they are simply finished there last part of this life and started on the next life that is permanent (ie heaven).
I don't like to see any living thing suffer....ever.
I really hope that terri's husband can finally find some peace now that she is gone, because I honestly believe he must have very deeply cared for her in order to go to such lengths to stop her suffering. It would have been easier to let her parents have there way, than being accused of all sorts of motives.
Death is a hard thing for many people to accept. It helps if your religious though.
Mellow_1

Offline big medicine

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Death and dying
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2005, 05:07:44 PM »
Watching anybody die is a tough thing. To this day I cant do it with a dry eye. And it doesnt matter if they are 15 or 105, they are always some ones loved one. It is one thing to help someone through a tramatic injury that they stand a chance to recover from, but a hopeless cause is another. For me I can think of no greater torture than to be kept a twisted contracted shell kept alive by tubes and or machines when I have no say so. To be alert and oriented and make that choice is quite different from being forced into it.

My father had a stroke and could not swallow or move his left side. He could get some words out. He chose to have a feeding tube inserted. He lived about another year and then came down with pneumonia. In a weeks time he was dead. We could have done all kinds of things to him to keep his heart beating and his lungs breathing, but who would it have been for? Surely not for him. I wanted so bad to keep him here, but we wouldnt put him through it. He died a peaceful death and is in a much better place now. As hard as it was to watch, he knew his family was there and I wouldnt have it any other way. To have thought that he would be all better and walk out of the hospital was insane. Death brought peace and ended my Dad's suffering. For that I'm thankful. Sometimes it takes more strength and faith to let go than it does to hang on.

Offline gino

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Death and dying
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2005, 02:47:00 AM »
Six years ago today (4-7) I watched my 34 year old daughter die of non-Hodgkins lymphoma <sp?>.
gino

Offline big medicine

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Death and dying
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2005, 05:19:17 PM »
Gino,
My heart goes out to you. I can not even begin to know what it feels like to loose a child. No matter how old they are, they are always your babies. My 6 year old daughter cut her arm tonight and that broke my heart.

Offline crashresidue

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Death and dying
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2005, 08:05:39 PM »
Cheers,

These posts touch a nerve with me!

I've listened to two friends, trapped in the wreckage of their helicopters, burn to death.  One (military) was over the radio - God, why wasn't it broken in the crash!  The second one, I was on the ground when he busted it - the fire was too intense to get him out, and the wreckage was so mangeled, I doubt if we could have gotten him out anyway.  It's things that I STILL hear in nightmares!  

I fly "aerial fire suppression" for a living.  I have anywhere from 2 to 5 EMTs in my "on board' fire crew, and I always instruct them that I do NOT want to be revived!  I have a "living will" and am now fighting with my PCP for a DNR or CCO bracelet.

State laws says I have to be "terminal" before I can have one - well, last time I checked "ageing" is terminal!  I mean, nobody's gotten out of here alive.

My wife also has the living will and understands that it's "quality, not quantity of life" that's important! ie: No law suits will result because of any actions taken - or not taken.

Now, this may be a mortal sin to some of you, but I also carry a two shot -"turn me off" key in the thigh pocket of my flight suit.  Rather than burn -yes I will!

I'd rather die violently, all alone, in a helicopter, than watch her watch me die one day at a time.  I can't think of a worse H*ll than that!

No offense was intended or implied.

Gentle winds,
cr
When all else fails, call for the gunships!

Offline darrell8937

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Death and dying
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2005, 10:22:52 AM »
I was with my mom to the very end. I held her hand as she took her last breath. I did the same with my grandmother just a couple years eariler. Soon after I lost a good friend ,, ne was 51,,  Lung cancer. All you smokers,   think how you family will feel. Knowing you did not have the willl to embrace life and quit. Please quit..Please for their sake if not yours.

Offline Sourdough

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Death and dying
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2005, 02:05:35 PM »
Lost a childhood buddy last week to cancer, he was 54.  He refused to take any more Cimo.  His mother understood, yet my mother and several of her friends still don't.  My mother is up in arms because my wife and I have living wills that spell out what medical teams are not to do.  Mom keeps saying that if something happens to my wife and I at the same time, she will try and locate those documents and destroy them right off.  Therefore I have made sure that all 4 of my brothers have a copy, as well as both of my sons.  My youngest son has access to the vault where the original is kept, and I also have a copy on file at the hospital, and my doctor's office.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.