Stop me I am thinking about selling 243 ultra

[aulrich]

Ok before anyone tries to set up an intervention . I should say that I want to sell my handi 243 ultra to finance a stevens 200. I thought I was firmly a handi-aholic but then these Stevens rifles show up, a cheap bolt gun. Rumor is they are supposed to be a Savage rifles without the accutrigger.  So I am looking for pro/cons of making the move, one thing to remember though is that the barrel program is not available to me (they don't ship to Canada).  

Here are my reasons to move:

1. Although I have it shooting much better now accuracy is only so-so.
2. 243 is a little light for the deer round here, where as 7-08 is a solid deer round and could be pressed into service as a short-medium elk gun.
3. I can load a follow up shot without looking down (Maybe I not coordinated enough)

Even though I am thinking of moving over on this gun it does not mean I am throwing out my plans for a 22 hornet and 45/70 it's just timing that has changed.

[ebonitekid767]

although i really like my handi's i also own a savage and love it,and i hear them canadian deer are pretty big and i agree the .243 isnt the best choice.I also really like the looks of the stevens 200 so i guess it comes down to what you really want.I also know i wouldnt wanna be lugging around a heavy barreled rifle in the woods.so if thats what you want,dont let anyone stop ya.

[Fred M]

Aulrich.
All you are going to do is exchanging  one cheap rifle for another. Rumors are just that. A tuned Handi trigger is about as goood as they come. The 243 is perhaps one of the most difficult cartridges to hand load. The excessive brass flow into the neck causes endless accuracy problems and creates high pressure or uneven pressure at least.

Besides this will give your bullet seating eccentricity. But all this is no big deal if you deal with it, and that goes for any 243. Bolt gun with hot loads are specially susceptical.

Chambers in the 243 are usually quite long in the neck section and the 243  has a very short neck. I is really quite simple to make your brass from 6mm Rem and use that long chamber neck and get the best of two worlds. Yes you need to fire form the brass but that can be done without bullets.

And a 243 will kill a deer, in the hands of a cool shooter. Specially with that new 85gr TSX bullet. also I am not a 243 fan.

[6-24x42]

My dad uses a mossberg 243 for deer hunting in wisconsin in some real brush country. Not only is it a bullet that gets through the brush, but it is accurate. It has a 4x weaver scope and is entirely capable of producing sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards using 100 grain bullets in the right hands, namely mine J/K :grin: . He has never had any trouble bringing down a deer (seeing them yes, but killing them no). Try shooting the Winchester 100 grain bullets. Besides, it's all about shot placement.

[mitchell]

And a 243 will kill a deer, in the hands of a cool shooter. Specially with that new 85gr TSX bullet. also I am not a 243 fan.

don't ask me how i know this but if a 243 in the hands of a bad shooter can kill a COW it can kill a deer.

now i being a 243 fan(a big fan) would say keep your 243. the savage is not going to do much better then your handi about the only thing the savage has on the handi is it can get new(better)barrels on it. such is the reason i'm looking for a new 200 in 223.

i really see no need for a gun change maybe a caliber change if you really feel the 243 isn't up to it(although some big deer have fallen to it). they do make a handi in 7mm-08 the one i had was one of my best handi's i have had and did a great job on deer. but hey its your call

[6-24x42]

It only takes one. [/quote]

[aulrich]

Fred,  I have no illusions (i think) accuracy wise,  I would expect to get about the same level of accuracy as a properly tuned handi (.75 - 1.5" @100).  Just without the hassle that can sometimes be there with a handi.

Killing power wise 243 should really do (if it's too light it's just barely too light) and maybe with the tsx it would be pushed over the top.  Don't get me wrong I actually like the handi's.  This winter coyote hunting i came to appreciate it's point-ability, they call it handi for a reason.

The primary reason I bought it was for varminting(my primary big game rig is a Ruger in 338)  and the reason I went 243 over 223 was availability (at that point handi's were rare up here), and I figure that the the 243 would make a good "Doe hunt" gun .  Now that spot has been taken over by my 204 (handi) and 17 hmr (marlin).  So the 243 has the potential of becoming a bit of a safe queen.  

Probably the key is to see if the 85 gr tsx shoots good enough <1.5" @ 100 and if they do give it one more season.  For the most part I was just thinking out loud.

[handirifle]

aulrich
I have seen and held the Stevens 200 and they are indeed the same action and barrels as the savage.  Savage still has all the tooling for the non-accutrigger rifles and is putting them to good use.

These receivers still have the same Savage adjustable trigger also.  Just not the accu-trigger model.  My old 243 Savage 110 (1970's vintage) would make clover leaf groups with the Sierra 85gr HP and sub one inch with 100gr loads.  Same action as the Stevens.  The old Savage rifles ALL used the long action, but was modified to stop early for short rounds.

I'd say go with the Stevens and don't look back.  If their accuracy is half of what the Savage is you'll still have a fine shooting rifle.

I think the calibers are limited to 270 and 30-06 though and right hand only, for now.  My dealer says it's a matter of time for lefties.

I'm hoping they'll make a LH 223 model.

[quickdtoo]

M200 long action is supposed to be available in
22" (25-06 REM, 270 WIN, 30-06 SPFLD)
24" (7MM REM. MAG, 300 WIN. MAG)

http://savagearms.com/st_200long.htm

M200 short action is supposed to be available in 22" 223 REM, 22-250 REM, 243 WIN, 7MM-08 REM, 308 WIN.

http://savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

[Coalminer7]

Anybody shot one of these yet?  Been looking for a gun to carry in the truck / on the quad.  Might prove interesting, look what the Remington 788
is bring on the auction sites.  I thought i saw these advertises at Bob' Army-Navy store in Clfd. Pa for $259.00, but I think they had a wood stock.

[Mac11700]

aulrich:
 
While I'm not one to tell you not to trade...Lord knows I've done enough of it in the last year...my poor wife doesn't even ask anymore what rifles I have now...I will say this..while the aspects of having a cheap bolt action with it's so-called fast follow up shot...might seem like a needed thing...in fact it really isn't...now.... I know you have lost faith in your rifles ability to shoot tiny groups...but...have you tried the loads thru it that Quickdtoo has shot recently?...Did you see his groups...right now I have about $150 worth of 25 cal bullets and a brand new yet to be used set of Redding dies for my 25-06 ultra...1 factory load...less than 1" groups from the notorious 25-06 Handi...so do you understand my point... for some rifles... it's ok NOT ... to reload for......besides...you said the 243 wasn't big enough for your Canadian deer...that's funny...I know folks that have taken much larger caribou with them without any problem...not to mention 300 lb hogs...a 100 grain Nosler partition at 3150fps...or a Barnes triple shock 85 at 3300 fps will work just as good on a 200lb deer as a 7-08...granted it might be a-little light for elk...well really really large elk and bad angles...and certainly wouldn't be my first choice hunting them with it...but in a pinch I think you could get by with good shot placement...and afterall isn't that what using a single shot is all about...shot placement??.....
 
 
My advice...try some different factory loads(the ones Quick shot) if you can get your hands on them...before trading it off...if it still won't shoot for ya...give it the heave-ho...and get something else...besides a Stevens...maybe like a Vangaurd :wink:    :-D  
 
Mac

[myarmor]

I'm with Coalminer7 on this-has anyone shot one or own one yet? I have been totally enticed by these "new" Steven 200.
Need feedback :twisted: [/quote]

[aulrich]

Maybe I should clarify my personal belief of "enough gun".

-On a straight rib shot the lungs must be shredded and there has to be an exit wound.

-Break both shoulders.

- If the head is 12 o'clock I should be able to shoot from 7-12 and 12-5 and make it through the lungs.

I am not sure even with a premium bullet I can say yes to all of those questions. I don't deniy the success of others, maybe just put this down to personal bias. And now that I gun shooting acceptably I am more open to putting a premium bullet down range. It's funny there is .5mm difference between 243 and 260 and the 260 is a great deer round (although it will probably die an undeserved death)

Things I know I will give up by selling

1. I have 3 sons and the handi's are great trainers, simple and easy to operate.

2. "Middle" son is a lefty and though he is not much interested in outdoors stuff, I like the option open if he changes his mind.

3. And as strange as this sounds after the grief I gone though to get it shooting it seems a shame to sell it. It is no longer a dud so it breaks the personal rule of "sell only duds".

4. If I find myself up a tree or rattling for whitetails again (The area I hunt has been primarily Mule deer country but more and more whitetails have been showing up). The Handi is well suited to those applications.

[Graybeard]

6-24x42, you MUST either get a valid e-mail address on file QUICKLY or you must stop asking for e-mail notice of PMs and threads you are watching. If the bounced e-mails do not stop coming to me from your invalid e-mail address I will have no choice but to enforce the rules and deactivate you account.

[6-24x42]

Sorry GB. I will stop asking for a notification when a reply is posted but just out of curiosity, how do I post my correct e-mail? :?

[aulrich]

Well I did it, (I sort of feel like I need to ask for forgiveness :grin: ). But the 243 ultra went to a new home yesterday.  And the proceeds will be going to a Stevens 200, the only issue is that the only place that I can find that has them does not have the 7-08, so I guess 270 will have to do, or I'll have to wait, but I have an inability to wait to buy a gun.

Oddly enough my inability to wait is the reason I had the 243 ultra and not a 223 ultra ,since I was after a varmint gun at the time.

I sill have the 204 and the way it's shooting it's not going anywhere, so I am still in the club... right?... OK , I promise to buy a 30-30 if I see one.

[Mac11700]

Well...that's a real shame as far as I'm concerned...see...I just got my 24" 243 Ultra barrel...and this barrel is great......factory loads group  right at 1" and my 1 bullet 4 different powder loads...are right at and under 1" moa...as too the brass stretching issue...it's non-exsistant with either the factory loads or my hand loads...which to me means NEF is doing a much better job on the chambering of the rifle...it has one of the tight necks...but is on the money for the lenght...the hand loads I was using was the 95gr. Combined Technologies ballistic silver tips...which according to their literature hads a thicker jacket and base so it should give better penetration and hold together...and with the new Federal Fusion ammo coming available ..and it's bonded jacket and core...well it would seem to be the best of both worlds.....
 
Quick has some ordered and so do I...we'll keep you posted on how they shoot...
 
Mac

[aulrich]

Mac what was does your serial start with, mine was HT... (just to compare vintage)

I have to admit that it was hard to let go, it was'nt a perfect gun but it had it's place. I miss it already.  But I have some sons and at least 2 of 3 will be hunters and a handi is probably the best trainer gun around. So there will be more.

[Mac11700]

Mines an HU receiver...with this years 243 barrel...

Mac

[MSP Ret]

Mitchell,.................a COW?? :-D  :-D  :-D ........(don't ask, don't tell)........<><....   :-D  

[mitchell]

Mitchell,.................a COW?? :-D  :-D  :-D ........(don't ask, don't tell)........<><....   :-D  

incoming pm  your going to like this

[MSP Ret]

OK Mitchell, I'll be here, and the secret will be safe between us!!....<><.... :grin:

[Mac11700]

Not fair......Not fair........I wanna hear too    

Mac

[mitchell]

darn't i just got done typing it all out and went to send it and i got a invalid session or some kind of crap oh well give me a bit and all post it. (probably later tonight)

[Mitch in MI]

Well, I guess I came to this thread too late. I was going to suggest sending the Ultra in for a 7-08, 280, 30-30 or 308 barrel, and selling the 243 barrel on eBay.

Hey, Mitch, PM me about the cow. You aren't the guilty party, are you?

[quickdtoo]

Mitchell, to save yourself some hearthache, copy your text before you hit the submit button, then if murphy shows up, you have your butt covered!!! Just paste in a new post window and continue on without a hickup!!! :wink:

[mitchell]

Well first off don’t not start flaming  me of my family WE do not in any way condone poaching in any way. Nor do I think that anything that my dad and his best friend did was safe or smart.


Well the year was I believe 1979 and my dad (Lee) have a great friend growing up , Kerry, they are still great friends today and is known around our house as uncle Kerry.

Well Kerry’s family comes from Jackson county , known for its deer poaching. Well Kerry’s family where major poachers and Kerry wanted to fit in  so Kerry knew that Lee (my dad) was a deer hunter so like any good friend he enlisted dad to go with him . So they go and get a beautiful Remington 700 in 243 put a scope on it grab dad’s spotlight jumped in dads chevelle (he was spoiled ) and head for the country .well they are down in Jackson county driving the back roads spotlighting for deer . So their driving and Kerry see a set of GREEN eyes  so they jump out of the car dad grabs the gun Kerry gets the light dad shoots and misses. So they get back in the car and Kerry gets all over dad for missing so they decided that Kerry would shoot the next time. So they back to spotlighting the fields and Kerry yells “  Lee stop the car I see a set of eyes.. No two sets of eyes ,three ,six ,ten there’s a whole heard of them!!!!” so they get out and Kerry gets the gun dad gets the light  they pick a set of eyes out Kerry looks through the scope and says” Oh boy Lee it’s a big one ! I can see its got this big white V chest” BOOM Kerry shoots Kerry knows he hit it but the eyes are still there so dad yells “ shoot it again shoot it again” BOOM Kerry fires another hit but still the eyes are still there . BOOM this time the YELLOW eyes go out. So Kerry grabs a flashlight and tells dad “ dive around for about 10 or so minutes and I’ll go get the deer and we’ll put it in the trunk and take off” so dad drives away and Kerry goes to get the deer. Well dads driving for a while  and get kinda lost  he doesn’t remember what field Kerry’s in  so he takes the spotlight and starts shining the fields . Well he comes upon Kerry who thinks it’s the cops and dives into the dirt  so dad got the great idea to put the light under his chin so that Kerry can see that its him. So dad does he puts the light under his chin and yells” KERRY ITS ME LEE” of course with the light under his chin every body with in a few miles can see them. So Kerry runs back to the car and tells dad to get in, but dad just stands there and says “where’s the deer” and Kerry (who always had a way with words) yells back “ WE KILLED US A BEEF”  then dad says” oh sh-t” caz he sees a farmer coming out of his house with half of his bibs on and he’s got a shotgun heading toward his car. So dad and Kerry jump in dad’s chevelle take off and after a while they lose the farmer. The next day they drive by in Kerry’s car and see a big black and white cow laying dead with a big crow standing on top.


This story not only tells us the 243 is a tuff gun but it also tells us that deer eyes are GREEN and cows eyes are YELLOW.

[MSP Ret]

:shock: :oops:  :roll:  :oops: ....<><....  :bye: (I'm outta here!!) :-D

[quickdtoo]

Uh oh, sounds like SSS....Shoot...Skidaddle and Shutup!!!! :roll:

[mitchell]

Uh oh, sounds like SSS....Shoot...Skidaddle and Shutup!!!! :roll:

that big 454 he had in that chevelle was good for something