Author Topic: Crossbow Predjudice (Read 5502 times)

jsteele · « **Reply #60 on:** March 27, 2006, 12:54:56 PM »

Quote from: Laughing Crow

In a square mile of dense cover, one still has to out think the wily whitetail buck. If the hunter is incapable of doing that, drugs remain the only solution. That is what I deem to be criminal. However, that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

So what you are saying is that any deerproof enclosure that is less than 640 acres (1 sq mile), and dense cover, should be illegal and considered criminal?

jsteele · « **Reply #61 on:** March 27, 2006, 01:03:17 PM »

Quote from: Laughing Crow

MADMAN!

we have bowhunters persecuting the crossbow

if in the shadow of that knowledge, you still feel it more important to persecute your fellow hunter because of where he or she wants to hunt or because of what he or she wants to hunt with, then you are more of a threat than the ARF is.

There are those of you who would call me a Madman!

Yup - you're a madman.

What if "your fellow hunter" chooses to hunt with a 30-06 during archery season? Still OK with you?

No doubt about it - You're a madman!

dukkillr · « **Reply #62 on:** March 27, 2006, 01:23:26 PM »

Quote

What if "your fellow hunter" chooses to hunt with a 30-06 during archery season? Still OK with you?

hey, it's all about personal choice... and we can't attack each other or peta wins. :grin:

jsteele · « **Reply #63 on:** March 27, 2006, 01:42:30 PM »

Personal choice?

LOL.....

Mine is a Claymore Mine. Hey ... peta's against Claymores, so that means you need to be for them!

Have you seen my Apache? :roll:

jh45gun · « **Reply #64 on:** March 27, 2006, 04:08:06 PM »

Jsteel we all know your dislike for xbows and this conversation developed into a civil debate on the pro's and Con's of Game preserves. You want to add to that go ifor it. IF you came back to bash crossbows go elsewhere. Be Civil or I will shut you down if you persist!

jsteele · « **Reply #65 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:15:13 PM »

I am hurt.

I have been nothing but civil, and I never even mentioned crossbows....you are being much too sensitive.

Notice my first post, in particular, is directly related to the conversation on game preserves.

Why not respond to that, instead of threatening poor little innocent me?

jh45gun · « **Reply #66 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:42:44 PM »

You can join in any discussion you like just as long as you do not bash xbows on this site. You want to bash them elsewhere at GB's go for it. I or the others will not care your opinion but this site here is for xbow users and discussions Pro not Con. :wink:

dukkillr · « **Reply #67 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:31:22 PM »

I believe we decided that as long as the discussion was civil we weren't required to agree. I didn't see jsteele say anything that wasn't civil.

jh45gun · « **Reply #68 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:21:34 PM »

Quote from: dukkillr

I believe we decided that as long as the discussion was civil we weren't required to agree. I didn't see jsteele say anything that wasn't civil.

Did not say he was not civil just warning him not to bash the xbows here. As you remember from GB's post about anti's here and being anti xbow is anti at this particular site here is GB's thoughts on this issue again from the post at the top of the page.

I've sorta stayed out of this one since no one has specifically asked me to get involved and it's not my intention now to dictate what direction you take with it.

But let me be clear about a few things that are general in nature to the GBO web site.

It is NOT my intention to provide space or an audience to anti's. Be they anti gun, anti trapping, anti shooting, anti hunting or anti anything else. When I set up a trapping forum it was for trappers to talk their sport not for folks against trapping to jump in and add their two cents worth. Same for the Exotics Hunting Forum.

The same applies here. This forum is to discuss the use of crossbows as hunting tools. It's fine to talk about them as target or sport shooting tools too. But it's not the proper venue to argue against their use. Take that to the Politics and Second Amendment forum or the off topic discussion forum or the pot bellied stove forum or some other general discussion type forum. Don't come here to the forum set up for folks who wish to use crossbows and start knocking them.

That's general guidance for any specific topic forum on this site. Have no problem with folks who are in general pro gun, pro hunting, etc expressing such views but do it in the proper venue. Folks who are anti gun, anti shooting, anti hunting in general just plain aren't welcome here.

Now you guys are not anti's in the respect of that last paragraph but you are anti xbow so for this board that does not fly. As I said you want to post in a General forum and complain about xbows go for it. Just not here.

dukkillr · « **Reply #69 on:** March 29, 2006, 06:29:48 AM »

i'm not anti xbow and, while i hesitate to speak for others, I suspect jsteele isn't either. I've shot xbows, i used to work with a serious hunter who used them exclusively.

But i am not just going to rubber stamp anything involved with xbows (or anything else for that matter). It's not anti-xbows to press for something other than a glorious no-limit 365 day season for these things. I'm not anti-rifle (I killed 3 deer with a rifle last season) and they are much more lethal than xbows.

I'm pro-truth (xbows are more lethal than non-locking bows). I'm pro-tradition (xbows do not typically meet the definiton set for bow hunting as most hunters see it). Those things do not make me anti-xbow.

jh45gun · « **Reply #70 on:** March 29, 2006, 08:37:46 AM »

What ever dukkiller I am not going to argue the fact just setting down the rules for this part of the forum as what GB said. Even if you and jsteele are not anti xbow as you say you are anti using them in a archery season which amounts to the same thing. Most states are not going to go with a separate season as we have argured before there is not enough time frame between archery, rifle, and muzzle loader to do it. Most archery seasons in most states is the first in line to suggest that xbow hunters wait until every one else is done with their seasons is grossly unfair, to also suggest they compete with firearms is also unfair. Xbow is a archery product and the arrow or bolt acts the same once fired. They both drop at a given distance both are short range weapons and the arrows deflect on grass and twigs the same. I have shot a bow for years and a xbow now for several both can be extremely accurate in the ranges used depending on the user. Xbow may be a bit easier for some but both need practice to get proficient with. No matter what the bottom line is WE want this area for pro comments on xbows not con ones. Like I said you want to add negative comments do it at a general board here like GB suggested. That should be fair enough.

dukkillr · « **Reply #71 on:** March 29, 2006, 09:35:00 AM »

this thread is has been dead for a long time. No one but you and I and jsteele even read it. I believe if you start a subject called, "Crossbow Prejudice" the topic of the prejudice against them should be discussed. Obviously with a subject about any type of "prejudice" negative perceptions will be discussed.

I think it's sad that anything deemed "negative" immediately results in threats, whining, or self righteous indignation. I think since the conversation is civil and related to the topic, it should be allowed. I'm always worried about those who can't hear citicism.

jh45gun · « **Reply #72 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:07:01 PM »

GB, stated what he wanted here in black and white so no matter what you think I am doing as a moderator the final say still goes to him. You read his post is that not clear enough for you? You want to argue crossbows go ahead in a general forum as he suggested. Just do not do it here. That should be plain enough to understand and yet still not put a muzzle on your views go to a general forum and raise all the cain about crossbows all you want. This is a forum for the Enjoyment of Crossbows.

jsteele · « **Reply #73 on:** March 29, 2006, 01:26:53 PM »

And what do fenced enclosures have to do with crossbow enjoyment?

Can't have one without the other? .... or is there, perhaps, some other common thread just below the surface?

I'm just trying to decipher the apparent connection that laughing crow has eluded....

help me out here.

jh45gun · « **Reply #74 on:** March 29, 2006, 03:40:07 PM »

This thread moved away from crossbows that is true and threads will wander talk about the fenced hunts all you want you read GB what he said. All I ask is you go by them rules. I am not trying to stop you or dukkillr or anyone else from posting. Just follow what GB posted and that is no bashing xbows here. any other topic you may wander off on I guess is ok even if it it does not happen to be about xbows I know threads get off topic but this is mostly for xbows and those who like them and shoot them. Just follow the rules is all I ask.

Graybeard · « **Reply #75 on:** March 29, 2006, 06:01:10 PM »

If you guys are dead set against the use of crossbows take it elsewhere. this forum is for those who wish to use them. It's not a haven for those who wish to put them down. I have more than enough places on here to bash them if that is your desire but you're NOT gonna do it here. Capeesh? If you do the moderator will dump your posts as I've directed and if you continue he will again contact me and I won't be nearly as nice next time.

dukkillr · « **Reply #76 on:** March 29, 2006, 06:15:44 PM »

I've very clearly not bashed them. I don't share the same opinion as jh45gun but I don't believe that I bashed xbows. I don't think I've ever bashed any weapon, ever... except mossbergs... i've bashed them I guess... Saying things like, "They're more lethal than non-locking bows" is not bashing... I even said in the same post that rifles are clearly more lethal than either bows or xbows and I like rifle hunting. I think the problem here is an overly sensitve moderator who sees negativity and objection in any comment that doesn't parrot his own thoughts.

This thread is dead anyway... I don't know why it's gotten reactivated with an old discussion.

jh45gun · « **Reply #77 on:** March 29, 2006, 06:30:47 PM »

You are hitting grey area's and you know it. You have stated in the past that crossbows have no place in the archery seasons. On this most all xbow users would disagree and that is a subtle form of xbow bashing as your saying sure I like them just do not use them around me and my hunting time as you are a threat to my hunting success and they are not a archey system so they should not be allowed during bow season. You cannot say you do not feel that way as you do. I am really not over sensative to this just following the rules GB set down on this subject. I really think if we met in a bar or a cafe we could have a drink or a coffee and talk reasonable. You have your views and thats cool we all do not have to share the same vision. You have read what GB said so do not think that I am singleing you or jsteel out I am not, maybe at first we had our differences but I am really trying to get past that and just keep this site flowing with out any issues.

Graybeard · « **Reply #78 on:** March 29, 2006, 07:29:53 PM »

Anyone wantng to argue the point further do it in a PM to me.

jsteele · « **Reply #79 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:33:20 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun

You have read what GB said so do not think that I am singleing you or jsteel out I am not.

Neither you, GB, or anyone should have ANY issue with anything I have said.

I have an open question that no one has answered regarding the topic, or rather, what the topic had turned to before you started all your fussing about nothing.

I'll repeat it to get things back on track:

Laughing Crow wrote:
In a square mile of dense cover, one still has to out think the wily whitetail buck. If the hunter is incapable of doing that, drugs remain the only solution. That is what I deem to be criminal. However, that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

So what you are saying is that any deerproof enclosure that is less than 640 acres (1 sq mile), and dense cover, should be illegal and considered criminal?

Laughing Crow · « **Reply #80 on:** April 03, 2006, 06:42:28 PM »

I will tell you about a conversation that I had with several gentlemen from state wildlife management agencies at the December Bowhunting Preservation Alliance Summit meeting in Minneapolis this past December. We were talking about the hunt that I filmed and participated in a 640 plus acre hunting preserve. Both related the story of a controlled hunt that one wildlife agency did with bowhunters in forty acres of dense woods. It was high fenced and x amount of deer were released with x amount of bowhunters turned loose in the enclosure for one day. At the end of the day, there was not one deer taken by the hunters. Especially when hunting whitetail deer, the size of the enclosure is irrelevant. If you dont understand it, you have never hunted in an enclosed environment. It is easy to criticize or prejudge a situation with out participating in it, but to do so accurately is impossible. One of the things that I find so amusing is how so many people know so much about something they have never done. It is a very interesting phenomenon!

jsteele · « **Reply #81 on:** April 04, 2006, 10:14:30 AM »

So I take it your answer is no.

Now you feel 40 acres is enough, if it is dense enough and the deer density is kept down to some level.

By the way, I can prejudge rape or murder without participating in it, thank you very much. Your tendency to oversimplify is troubling.

I am not necessarily opposed to enclosures of significant size. The question always becomes "what size?"

This reasoning that we should defend any form of hunting simply because someone would call it hunting is seriously flawed.

The 80% in the middle, who neither hunt nor are oppposed to hunting, will ultimately determine our (hunters) fate. I, for one, do not wish to help the other side by supporting ethically questionable practices.

Fair chase is what it is. Check out Pope and Young if you need a refresher.

dukkillr · « **Reply #82 on:** April 04, 2006, 07:13:14 PM »

Quote

This reasoning that we should defend any form of hunting simply because someone would call it hunting is seriously flawed.

it's so nice to hear someone else say it... now get ready to be told that you're really helping PETA by daring to think for yourself.

Laughing Crow · « **Reply #83 on:** April 06, 2006, 04:01:50 PM »

I am not at all impressed with anything pope and young has to say. I will spare you my feelings about that particular organization.

jsteele · « **Reply #84 on:** April 08, 2006, 09:55:09 AM »

Being that P&Y is THE preeminent authority on Bowhunting, I highly doubt that they are all that impressed with your feelings about their organization.

They have defined fair chase, you are an advocate for things outside the bounds of what they consider fair chase, which makes you unethical in the club's eyes.

I can see why you are bitter.

You must admit, however, that there needs to be some standard that hunters should be held to.....

Don't you?

jh45gun · « **Reply #85 on:** April 08, 2006, 10:44:44 AM »

Quote from: jsteele

You must admit, however, that there needs to be some standard that hunters should be held to.....

Don't you?

One of them being sticking together no matter what your choice of weapon and supporting each other instead of bashing some ones choices that you do not agree with would be one hell of a start. Instead of infighting amoungst our selves use the same effort towards the anti hunters. One thing postitive I noticed in the Copy of the Horizontal BowHunters Magazine I just recieved they do not discriminate against any type of weapon you choose to hunt with wether that be a bow or muzzle loader or pistol or rifle or shotgun. They have hunts they invite folks to that you can use what ever you want to use even though it is put on by a pro crossbow organisation. Too darn bad not every one acted like they do! A class act I only wish others did the same.

jsteele · « **Reply #86 on:** April 08, 2006, 10:56:10 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun

One thing postitive I noticed in the Copy of the Horizontal BowHunters Magazine I just recieved they do not discriminate against any type of weapon you choose to hunt with wether that be a bow or muzzle loader or pistol or rifle or shotgun. They have hunts they invite folks to that you can use what ever you want to use even though it is put on by a pro crossbow organisation. Too darn bad not every one acted like they do! A class act I only wish others did the same.

You CLEARLY do not have bowhunting's best interests at heart when you suggest that "a bow or muzzle loader or pistol or rifle or shotgun" should not be treated differently.

This is why we have separate seasons to begin with.

You guys just don't get it. There is NO reason not to support every hunter's choice of weapon. There is PLENTY of reasons not to support them in every season.

A place for everything. Everything in its place.

jh45gun · « **Reply #87 on:** April 08, 2006, 03:53:40 PM »

I am not talking about seasons I am talking about one group bashing a other for their own selfish reasons. That is what you do not get. This forum is for the enjoyment of crossbows you have read what Greybeard has stated. I do not want this thread to be shutdown and it could be if GB sees it so you want to continue to argue and bash the xbow platform take it over to a general forum. ( Potbellied stove will be fine) I am not censuring you argue against all you want just not at this forum. Just going by GB's Rules. Read his above statement. I gave Dukkillr a chance to shoot both and post his findings here with out censure but I will not allow any more xbow bashing here. Lets take it to the potbellied stove I will be there later. Going out for a bit.

jsteele · « **Reply #88 on:** April 09, 2006, 03:44:17 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun

(if) you want to continue to argue and bash the xbow platform take it over to a general forum.

You must be confused. Please point out where I am "bashing xbows."

I am simply responding to the posts made in this thread.

jh45gun · « **Reply #89 on:** April 09, 2006, 05:31:04 AM »

Nope not confused I know your stance on the subject and your pussy footing around the edges I can see through like a glass pane. Your comments about a season for every thing goes back to our past arguements.