Author Topic: ~204 grouping problems(please help)~ (Read 1052 times)

204Ruger · « **on:** April 13, 2005, 08:48:31 AM »

I took my handi 204 forearm off and put it back on. Today my rifle was shooting dead on at 50 yards and about 5 inches left at 100 yards. So i backed the screw out some and now it shoots 3 inches to the right at 50 and dead on at 100. Please tell me the best way to float the barrel and some other things i can do to make to a more accurate gun with out reloading. I was shooting real good with it. I sould have not taken off the forearm. Please all of you Handi Rifle pros help me out.
Thanks Chance Doane(204Ruger)

6-24x42 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2005, 09:53:54 AM »

Check out the FAQ on the top of the page for floating the barrel and for a trigger job. Hven't tried them yet but I have heard they work. I plan on trying them this weekend so I'll keep you posted.

aulrich · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2005, 10:17:58 AM »

To free float make a pencil mark (not to heavy) on either side of the barrel channel (forend installed of course). Take something round that will fit in the channel (I used a sanding drum but a broom handle wrapped in sandpaper will do) and sand the whole surface out until the lines are gone.

Install the forend and see if you can slip a dollar bill between the forend and barrel first up to the barrel stud the from the stud to the spacer. Then you will be free floated.

If you still have problems you may have to add pressure from the forend. See Fredm's web site. But a quick and dirty experiment is to put shims between the forend and the barrel. Layers of business cards places forward and/or back of the barrel stud. Even the position of the shims could effect results. If I had to guess try the back just forward of the spacer first.

Fred M · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2005, 05:37:51 PM »

I have no remedies for the 204, I don't know why any one would want a 204 when you can have a 223 or a 22-250. Give the business card to your friends and trade in the rifle. obnoxious to clean most don't shoot worth a hoot and finicky to boot.

I expect to get a whole lot of flack about that, but just have at it. I can take it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2005, 06:39:54 PM »

Well Fred, you stepped in it now! :eek: There are a heck of a lot of .204s out there that shoot dang good and make that statement of yours a bunch of BS! I thought you had more sense than to make a statement like that, but I guess I was wrong, that's rediculous!!! I'd like to see Silverfox's opinion on that over at PM.....He'd get one heck of a good laugh out of it!!!

Fred M · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2005, 07:39:04 PM »

Well Quick I thought I get a charge out of you

Unlike you I am not a defender of the Handi and wont go to war with one.

Though I can make them shoot as good as the barrels will allow. Ha, Silver fox he be a trotting and tramping on that one, god bless his soul. You guys are simply too serious. Can't blame you for calling your baby a freak which of course I did not.

mitchell · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2005, 08:12:02 PM »

Quote from: Fred M

I have no remedies for the 204, I don't know why any one would want a 204 when you can have a 223 or a 22-250. Give the business card to your friends and trade in the rifle. obnoxious to clean most don't shoot worth a hoot and finicky to boot.

I expect to get a whole lot of flack about that, but just have at it. I can take it.

yeah you did step in it . I'm not getting in to this one. you guys can see for yourselfs at eh P-dog shoot. the 204's can preform

Fred M · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2005, 08:30:43 PM »

Mitchell.
Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. Just pray for a windless evironment and have a good spotter to see where those tiny needles go.

hellacatcher · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2005, 12:57:54 AM »

I kind of like my 204 even found a coyote to try it out on.

6-24x42 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2005, 04:02:49 AM »

Them is fight'n words!!!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2005, 06:16:42 AM »

Quote

Can't blame you for calling your baby a freak which of course I did not.

Who called our Handi's a Freak..... Hold me back...Where is he...Let me at um...

Mac

mitchell · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2005, 03:14:29 PM »

Quote from: Fred M

Mitchell.
Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. Just pray for a windless evironment and have a good spotter to see where those tiny needles go.

i hate to bust you bubble but he 204 will preform much better then either the 223 or the 22-250 . you got the progs give them all a 40gr bullet and see for your self. and from what i've seen (al though i'm yet to see a match 204) the 204s in general seem to be better shooters the the 223 or the 22-250.

oh and by the way if you guys remember the three S's we talked about. my 204 did the first S yesterday at 428 yards (laser checked) and i had 7-10MPH winds (just a guess in my part) still got him on the first shoot.

Fred M · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:03:30 PM »

Mitchell.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun / Ammunition : .204 Ruger
Bullet : .204, 40, HDY V-MAX 22006
Bullet weight : 40 grains or 2.59 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 3600 fps
Crosswind speed : 10 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.255@V>0 fps;

Optimum trajectory information :
Optimum sight-in range (X) = 228 Yds.
with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 141 Yds.
and max. point blank range (P)= 262 Yds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sight-in clicks, 1 click = 0.635 cm/100 yd. or 0.25 in/100 yd.
Height of sight above bore axis = 4.45 cm or 1.752 inch
Gun is zeroed-in at 280 yds,
by sighting-in at level firing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds
| 400 2129 0.4351 402 -11.0 17.9 4.28 30.9 +11.0 +2.62 4.76

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drop is 11" and wind is deflection 17.9 " at 400 with 40 gr V-max MV 36oo

That is pretty good if you got the accuracy to go with it To bad I can't copy the graphs they easier to follow.

218Bee · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2005, 01:27:04 AM »

How's this Mr. Fred:

Rick

Fred M · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2005, 05:54:44 AM »

218 Bee

Yes that is a heck of a lot better. My graphs for both interior and exterior
ballistics are separate. The cartridge interior ballistics and data is used to compute the exterior ballistic tables the ones that you show. Or you can generate both from manual input.

I guess you converted the table to an image and posted it as an image?
It is very nice and your program is excelent. Also the velocity of 3600 is a bit low because the pressure is low. The load was generated at 59.9kpsi with Benchmark powder.

Arn't these toys wonerful. :

218Bee · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2005, 05:21:10 PM »

They are amazing Fred. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of computing power at our fingertips (literally).

I used a screen capture program called ScreenHunter, available at http://wisdom-soft.com . I used the free version. Simply hit the F6 hotkey for an image of the active window.

RCBSLoad is a great tool as well. I like being able to extrapolate my (approximate) zero by entering the offset at 100 yards.

I wish the load data portion was a bit more robust. You need to purchase the various manuals for about the same price as a printed version. I'd rather pour over a hard copy than scroll through data on a screen.

Good shooting,

Rick

Fred M · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2005, 08:48:13 PM »

Thanks Rick.
I don't have the RCBS but I have two others that are not worth the money. I don't want name them.

Two more programs I use now and then, because they have old saved data I use sometimes. One of them is an old DOS version called PCB and it is good and the other is Point Blank also very good.

The one I really like and the only one I use now is Quick-Load and Quick Target the two programs are linked and work together. It is simply
mind boggling what these two can do. The bullet and powder libraries are are very extensive with practically nothing missing. Some bullet design parameters are missing because of proprietary design. :cry:

If you really want to spend some time on it you can export from Q-L to MS Excel plug in your formulas and have at it. Like friction analysis for lands and grooves. You should be good at that being a surveyor.

I have printed all the manuals over two hundred pages. I know what you saying by having the manual while doing computing. It just does not work too well with out one at hand. Q-L has the manual on Acrobat Reader.

I have to try that screen Hunter. I would love to have some one give me a hand to re-do my web site. I got as far as having my private web site with some preliminary designs.