Defensive load for 3" .45ACP

[RupertBear]

Just replaced my Sig with a Para-Ordnance "Carry" with 3" barrel. Any suggestions/recommendations for factory ammo for defensive purposes?

Thanks!

Gary

[Mikey]

RupertBear:  Gun Tests Magazine just ran a comparison of the 45 acp defensive ammo and came up with (I believe) the Federal 230 gn HP and the Remington Golden Saber (?) in the same flavor.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Redhawk1]

I carry my own reloaded ammo. But before I reloaded my own, I carried the Remington Golden Saber. They were very accurate in my Colt defender.  

[Sir Knight]

After trying several different loads, my Para Carry ...



... only works with Cor-Bon 230grns which is NOT the best choice for a 3"-barrel .45ACP but in my experience, it is the only round which functions flawlessly -- everything else gives me at least one jam per mag and some rounds won't even chamber properly.

[Sir Knight]

PS: What SIG did you use to carry? I'm thinking about getting a 229 but can't decide on .40S&W or .357SIG.

[RollTide]

For short barrel 45's, you usually have to go to a fast lighter bullet to retain enough velocity to make it effective.  The excellent 230 gr rounds that do so well in full size guns are less effective in shorter barrels.  I have found that the 40S&W and the 357SIG are 2 of the best rounds for compact guns.  They both remain very effective even with shorter barrels.  I did carry a 3 1/2" 45 but switched to a 40S&W.  I actually have a AMT Backup with interchangeable barrels and slides in 45acp, 40S&W, 357SIG, and 9mm.  I usually carry the 40S&W unless I am using the Backup for just that, a backup to one of my full size guns in another caliber.

Roll Tide

[RupertBear]

Used to carry the Sig P239 in 40S&W. Gun didn't fit my hand properly. Hate the 40S&W and to me, the only round to use is 45ACP.

[Sir Knight]

For short barrel 45's, you usually have to go to a fast lighter bullet to retain enough velocity to make it effective.  The excellent 230 gr rounds that do so well in full size guns are less effective in shorter barrels.  

I agree that lighter rounds should be used in a 3" barrel. If I had my choice, I'd go with a 185grn round. Problem is that when it comes to the Para Carrys, those rounds are not reliable and sometimes won't even chamber properly. Therefore you are stuck with the 230grn Cor-Bons.

[RupertBear]

Thanks Sir Knight... will try some 185's and the CorBon 230's and see what gun will handle.

[TScottO]

I have a Para CCO that loves Remington Golden Sabers. It's easy enough to shoot 4" 25 yard groups with that ammo using a freehand stance. I haven't seen a reason to change.

Take Care,
Scott

[drdougrx]

I used to carry a detonics MKIV (boy..that's a blast from the past) in the pharmacy when I worked nights.  I used 230gr win silvertips.  I spoke with Mas Ayoob and John Farnam about this and they were pretty sure that any high quality 45ACP round would be effective in the 3" barrel as long as it fed.  They said the velocity would never really be high enough to cause any huge expansion, but, the 45 cal wound channel would be sufficient for a stop.  What I took away from the conversation was, reliability first, shootability second (as in can you hit what you need to under pressure), and sights, third, trigger, fourth and bullet last.

Just my opinion...

Regards,

Doug

[Mikey]

RupertBear - from that short barrel I doubt much of anything will expand, but at least you're throwing something out there that will leave a 45 caliber hole.  If you can find a 230 grain flying ashtray that functions your piece, that will be better than a round that won't.  

drdopugrx - with all due respect, Ayoob forgets his history.  He forgets that the 455 Webley round only fired a 260 gn bullet at about 650'/sec, if that, and worked incredibly well.  The British 38-200 fired a 200 gn 38 slug at only 600'/sec from a 4" Webley and that also worked incredibly well but Ayoob either doesn't know those things or chooses to ignore them.  Ayoob also says the 7.62x25mm round is obsolete, so go figger.  

Rupert - See which rounds cycle your 45 the most reliably - find the one with the largest metplat that works the gun and use those.  If they turn out to be flying ashtrays, then all the better.  I do not wish to sound contrite but bullet type not withstanding, it's placement that matters and if you can place them with that shorty 45, then you can defend yourself with it.  Mikey.

[Savage]

Just replaced my Sig with a Para-Ordnance

WHAT!!
Savage

[drdougrx]

Hi Mikey,

Ayoob is from NH and about 90 miles from my home.  I've gone to three of his courses as well as John Farmans and SW Academy.  They are actually pretty good and I can drive to them.  He's got alot of stories to be sure.

Though, I'm kinda puzzled at your post. Mass never said anything bad about a 45acp round in a 3" barrel.  He did say that so long as it fed, the .452 diameter slug would do the job even if it didn't expand (as some HPs don't or may not).  Also, wasn't the webley round all lead?  I don't know if I would carry a soft lead round in a short barreled .45, mostly because of the springs which need to be a high power load in order to cycle the short slide return.  They can be kinda finicky in my experience.

Can't comment on the 7.62x25......what is it???

Doug