Author Topic: Tom Delay and the NRA (Read 2196 times)

Locoweed · « **on:** April 17, 2005, 08:52:02 AM »

So Tom Delay was the keynote speaker at the NRA convention and he thanked all his friends in the NRA for their support and went on to blame all his problems on the liberal left. From what I've heard, Delay's ethics problems border on the criminal and he himself is the one to blame. What he did during the Terri Shiavo case was reprehensible. I am totally disgusted by Delay and his actions and am distressed that he now is leaning on his "friends" in the NRA for support. So long as Delay is a friend of the NRA, I'm not a member of the NRA. The NRA must be insane to bring in a speaker like Delay right in the middle of all his controversy.

big medicine · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2005, 10:11:45 AM »

Weather you agree with EVERYTHING the NRA does or doesnt do, you should understand that they are really the ONLY ones fighting for YOUR gun rights. I dont agree 100% with EVERYTHING the NRA does, but there isnt another group that can get done what the NRA does. Dont let one turd chase you off. Do you actually belong to the NRA right now?

Locoweed · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2005, 11:25:46 AM »

I've been a member of the NRA for about 35 years. I'm also a member, not just registered as, but a member of the Republican Party. So, you see, I'm already distressed at what Delay has been up to and now, in addition to fouling the party, he's fouling the NRA. AOL headline today; "Embattled GOP Leader Finds Haven Among Gun Lobby." Delay says, "When a man is in trouble or in a good fight, you want to have your friends around, preferably armed."

big medicine · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2005, 12:54:45 PM »

I can remember not so long ago the "jack booted thugs" statement that had people up in arms. It is kind of the same thing here. Delay is most likely no worse than anyone else on Capital Hill, he is just the one the "media" choose to hang out to dry for some reason. We have weathered the storms in the past and must do so in the future, if you give up and quit the media and the people who would flush our rights down the toilet win.

Shorty · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2005, 01:04:40 PM »

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Well, at least in the short term. :wink:

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2005, 02:48:47 PM »

Big Medicine,

The NRA isn't the only ones fighting for your gun rights. There is also a group called Gun Owners of America. The President there is Larry Pratt. He is one stand up guy. There's no slick magazine coming to you every month but they DO lobby. In fact if you want someone to lobby for you I feel that they offer more bang for your buck IMHO.
I have called the GOA offices before at about ten minutes before nine and had Larry Pratt himself answer the phone.
I'm not wanting to start any kind of a flame war or anything please don't take it that way. All I mean to do is offer an alternative.

Rusty <><

big medicine · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2005, 04:04:25 PM »

Rusty,
I could have worded that better, and you are right there are others out there, but the NRA is by far the largest and most powerful of the gun lobbys. I do not in anyway want to take away from any other progun prohunting group. Some times it is not the big fish that makes a fish fry, it is all the little fish. But it seems that even the media listens when the NRA speaks. They (news media) may not present the truth, but they do listen. I do apologize, and mean no disrespect to any other group.

jh45gun · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2005, 04:09:15 PM »

I am a NRA Member and yea a lot of things they do are not right to some but I am going to join the GOA too this summer I figure belonging to both will give me more bang for the buck and Hey I like that glossy magazine.

magooch · « **Reply #8 on:** April 18, 2005, 04:13:25 AM »

If Tom Delay were a Dumbocrap and had done all the things the liberals are accusing him of, he would be their hero. I believe the only reason he is getting all the attention is because he has been a very effective leader for the Republicans and the Dems. just have to have a pissing post.

FWiedner · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2005, 04:29:59 AM »

Delay believes that "Just because people want to destroy the Second Amendment, that doesn't mean they are bad people."

:shock:

Translation: "If someone makes you defenseless and forces you at gunpoint to be their slave, they will probably be one of my rich friends."

Delay needs to go.

:x

fe352v8 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2005, 09:18:24 AM »

Believe it or not there are Democrats who pray, and Tom DeLay is the answer to a prayer. His continued "good works" could very well be what the Democrats need in the upcomming mid-term elections.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

jh45gun · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2005, 10:28:47 AM »

Yea I suppose the liberals are estatic. Well its not over until its over so I am not getting reved up about it I would guess he will weather this.

powderman · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2005, 04:45:54 PM »

Quote from: fe352v8

Believe it or not there are Democrats who pray, and Tom DeLay is the answer to a prayer. His continued "good works" could very well be what the Democrats need in the upcomming mid-term elections.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

There may well be dumcraps who pray, but if they follow their party platform, they don't know God. POWDERMAN.

fe352v8 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2005, 10:08:56 PM »

Congratulations; the statement, Â“There may well be dumcraps who pray, but if they follow their party platform, they don't know GodÂ”, manages to present two classic fallacies, of formal logic, in one sentence; argumentum ad hominem and argumentum ad verecundian.

Strange, many of our earliest settlers came here to escape sectarianism, and now some wish to revive it

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2005, 01:42:43 AM »

For those that don't speak latin or are not familiar with legal terms, I looked them up and here are the translations:

Argumentum ad verecundian: slight misspelling, it's verecundiaM (thanks Google :wink: )

Translation: "Appeal to Authority"

Meaning: While sometimes it may be appropriate to cite an authority to support a point, often it is not. In particular, an appeal to authority is inappropriate if:

1) The person is not qualified to have an expert opinion on the subject,
2) Experts in the field disagree on this issue.
3) The authority was making a joke, drunk, or otherwise not being serious

A variation of the fallacious appeal to authority is hearsay. An argument from hearsay is an argument which depends on second or third hand sources.

Argumentum ad Hominem:

Translation: "Arguement against the Man"

Meaning: A debater commits the Ad Hominem Fallacy when he introduces irrelevant personal premisses about his opponent. Such red herrings may successfully distract the opponent or the audience from the topic of the debate.

This one is neither latin or a legal term but here it is anyway:

Sectarianism:

noun : a narrow-minded adherence to a particular sect or party or denomination

Now that we're all understanding what was said, please continue.

I see the ad Hominem (dumcraps) and I suppose he could be using God as the authority for the other, but he isn't quoting him so that's a bit shaky. Sectarianism permeates this forum so that's to be expected here.

Ian

Curtis · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2005, 02:03:35 AM »

nullus intellectus

C

magooch · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:25:07 AM »

Quote from: fe352v8

Believe it or not there are Democrats who pray, and Tom DeLay is the answer to a prayer. His continued "good works" could very well be what the Democrats need in the upcomming mid-term elections.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

You're right; the Dumbocraps can't win with their socialistic ideas, so they have to depend on demonizing some Republican and with the help of the left leaning press, they hope to get elected by default.

doc_kreipke · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:34:22 AM »

IÂ’d say that neither logical fallacy applies to PowdermanÂ’s statement.

Â“DumbcrapÂ” is use of a disparaging epithet, not a classic ad hominem argument. This is where one attempts to refute an opponentÂ’s argument by attacking his character, rather than the evidence for his argument.

Example: Tom DelayÂ’s approach to Social Security is bad because he practices nepotism.

Ad verecundiam doesnÂ’t apply here, because Powderman doesnÂ’t cite an authority.

Example: Privatization of Social Security is good because Billy Graham supports it. (DonÂ’t know if he actually does nor not.)

So, one might not agree with olÂ’ PowderÂ’s statement, but it doesnÂ’t constitute a classic logical fallacy.

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2005, 06:03:18 AM »

Quote from: Curtis

nullus intellectus

Yep, I was that, (it translates to "without understanding") till I looked all those oddly spelled foreign phrases up.

Ian

fe352v8 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2005, 09:51:48 AM »

On the contrary, the implied assertion is, that the author has certain information regarding anotherÂ’s lacking knowledge of God. Furthermore the context of the assertion would indicate that the author has been endowed by some higher authority as the arbiter of those having knowledge of God, or is authorized to speak on behalf of the higher authority. In addition the context and substance would imply that the higher authority is God.

The dismissing of a position based upon anotherÂ’s Â“knowledge of GodÂ” seems irrelevant in the context of Mr. DeLayÂ’s situation, or in the evaluation of the Democratic PartyÂ’s platform.

As for Dumbocraps being disparaging, being the symbol of the GOP is an elephant, it is ironically amusing.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Dali Llama · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:21:37 PM »

Quote from: Haywire Haywood

Sectarianism permeates this forum

And what do you postulate be the reason for that, inquire Dali Llama???

powderman · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:57:49 PM »

The democratic party platform was, is, and will probably always be, pro gay, and pro death, among other things. Christians do not advocate murdering babies because they are inconvenient. Christians do not approve of, let alone advocate and promote, homosexuality. That, is the reason I refer to them as dumcraps. Like I said, the dumcraps don't know God if they believe in these things. Laugh if you like. POWDERMAN.

fe352v8 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2005, 07:38:07 PM »

Powderman

Why would I laugh, you are consistent in your beliefs, and I have no reason to doubt your sincerety, reagarding them.

I just resent any political party appropriating the most sacred of things, an individualÂ’s religious belief and incorporating them as part of a political platform for political gain. Up until the election of 1976 politicians seldom proclaimed their religious beliefs, in fact the distanced themselves from them, as a demonstration of their understanding that The Constitution is the basis of our government. Even Regan, did not find it to be in good taste to inject his religious beliefs as a qualification for the office, nor GH Bush. It has only been since NewtÂ’s demise, that politicians lost the respect for the place religion holds, and began demeaning it as just another qualification for office. When one examines the policies, conduct and results of these Â“holier than thouÂ” politicians their sincerity seems questionable, and thus their proclamations of Â“faithÂ” seem more akin to pandering, than a testimony to their faith.

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Dali Llama · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2005, 01:05:34 AM »

Quote from: Dali Llama

Quote from: Haywire Haywood
Sectarianism permeates this forum
And what do you postulate be the reason for that, inquire Dali Llama???

btt for Haywire Haywood, or anyone else who wishes to offer a response...

powderman · « **Reply #24 on:** April 20, 2005, 03:38:26 AM »

Whats with the BTT. If anyone is interested they will post, you just wasted bandwidth again. POWDERMAN. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Dali Llama · « **Reply #25 on:** April 20, 2005, 09:15:19 AM »

Quote from: powderman

Whats with the BTT. If anyone is interested they will post, you just wasted bandwidth again. POWDERMAN. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Dali Llama say he would appreciate it if powderman would not address him in such disrespectful manner.

jh45gun · « **Reply #26 on:** April 20, 2005, 09:55:45 AM »

I really think GW is sincere in his faith. Folks like Klinton I wonder though God does forgive sinners. :grin: Nothing wrong with a politician saying he believes in God.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #27 on:** April 20, 2005, 12:55:43 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun

I really think GW is sincere in his faith.

Dali Llama say he do not doubt that. Dali say he appreciate jh45gun's provision of answer to reasonable question. Dali say he hope there be more more responses regarding to "permeation" alluded to by Haywire Haywood. :-)

powderman · « **Reply #28 on:** April 20, 2005, 03:32:27 PM »

Quote from: Dali Llama

Quote from: powderman
Whats with the BTT. If anyone is interested they will post, you just wasted bandwidth again. POWDERMAN. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Dali Llama say he would appreciate it if powderman would not address him in such disrespectful manner.

I disrespected nobody, simply pointed out a fact. Over the years I've found that people who want to resond to a thread will do so no matter its position on the board, whether it be # 1 or #30. Btt is just wasted bandwidth in my simple opinion.
JH 45 GUN. I too believe that GWs faith is true. The dems claimed a deep faith in God too, while the other side of their mouth spouts about a womans right to kill her unwanted child, and advocating homosexual marriage. POWDERMAN.

alsatian · « **Reply #29 on:** April 23, 2005, 07:06:04 AM »

The NRA or the Republicans need not be dragged down by an unsavory character, if they act appropriately. They should make a clear stand against unrightous acts, whoever commits them, and leave it at that. So far, folks, Tom Delay is far from proven guilty, and I don't adhere to the "guilty until proven innocent" way of doing politics. Character assassination is just too easy a game to play if you are going to dump a guy just because Nancy Pelosi calls them names.

I know precious little of Tom Delay's story. I have seen several of the "crimes" he is charged with shot down thus far, so I'm withholding judgment until all the facts are outed. But I don't think the NRA or the Republicans are presently damaged by not ostracizing Delay, other than in the eyes of liberal pukes who can't stand either the NRA or the Republicans to start with.