Bullet Ft. Lbs. for the 300 Win

[jro45]

With the 220gr bullet going 2719 fps = 3610.84 Ft. Lb. at muzzel.
200gr bullet going 2800 Fps = 3481.07 Ft. Lb.  at muzzel.
180 gr bullet going 3150 Fps = 3965.16 Ft. Lb.  at muzzel.
Thats a lot of Ft. Lb. at the muzzel what do you think?

[Jimi]

You cannot efficaciously load a 200 to 220 grain bullet in the .300 Win Mag. The neck is too short which means you have to seat the bullet deeper, which digs into your powder and affects the resulting chamber pressures, speed and energy of the exiting bullet. Otherwise, you would see significantly more imporessive figures.

[Redhawk1]

Jimi, if you are using a compressed load you may crush a few grains of powder, but to help eliminate that, I use a drop tube so powder will compact tighter and reduce the crushing of powder on compressed loads.
The 200 and 220 will work just fine. JMHO.

[Ramrod]

With the 220gr bullet going 2719 fps = 3610.84 Ft. Lb. at muzzel.
200gr bullet going 2800 Fps = 3481.07 Ft. Lb.  at muzzel.
180 gr bullet going 3150 Fps = 3965.16 Ft. Lb.  at muzzel.
Thats a lot of Ft. Lb. at the muzzel what do you think?

They are just numbers, nothing more. You can't kill anything with paper numbers. A 50 grain bullet from a .220 Swift has the same muzzle energy as a 405 grain .45-70. Which is a better big game round?

[drdougrx]

I donno.....I really wonder sometimes.  The only animal I've ever shot with a 300win was a canada moose using 180gr Nosler partitions and every one exited.  Ft lbs are are fun to talk about, but....for me...I could probably get along nicely with an 06 and the same bullet at 2750fps or so for most animals I would hunt.

I use the 300 for the flat trajectory (at least that's what I tell myself).  In reality, I find myself leaning towards loads or cartridges that will approach or surpass 3,000fps with bullets that weigh greater then 130grains.  BUT....my 45/70 with 350gr bullets seem to finish everything they touch at a velocity a heck of a lot slower than 3k.

Sometimes I wonder...is it ftlbs or bullet construction???

Doug

[roper]

Jimi, I agree with you on loading the heavier bullets in the 300mag.  I've shot the 200gr in a 300mag but that bullet seems to be better suited for the 300wby or 300rum.  To use a long drop tube just to get afew more grains or make a compress load there isn't much gain in velocity to bother.  If you got a 5r or 5c barrel in a 1/9 twist for those heavier bullets then you would have a good gain in a 300mag.  There is a reason you don't see factory ammo for the 300mag above 200gr but can get 300wby up to 220 gr bullet.

[jro45]

Jimi,  I have loaded and shot the 220 gr bullets out of my 300 Win with a different powder than I'm using now and they were loaded to 2650 but I had a 26" barrel then and got 50 ft per sec. per inch back then. Now I have a 25" barrel and with them loaded to 2669 plus my extra inch gives me 2719 fps and they are very accurate. Did not have any problem loading them. They have a crimping grove in them and just a tad bit past it is where they sit at in the shell.

[Jimi]

I'm not saying it can't be done, bur rather it cannot be done well. I much prefer the H&H and Weatherby Magnums for this very reason. Unlike a lot of .300 Magnum shooters, I'm not particularly enthused about the higher velocities, unless I'm hunting elk in the mountains. I find a slower, heavier bullet much more deadly and far less likely to damage meat... and when it comes right down to it, I'm a meat hunter. I hunt to participate in the cycle of life and if there isn't any good meat to be had, the kill was simply the waste of a life. Okay, here's my schpiel... A 200 grain bullet has a sectional density factor of .301 which is preferable over a 180 grain bullet which is only .271. To punch hard enough at longer ranges one needs more initial momentum – ie: mass and velocity and you need a heavier bullet to do it. Also, a 200 grain bullet has a better ballistic coefficient, mainly through its better sectional density rather than through form, and thus retains velocity better and the 200 grain bullet is ideal for the .300 Magnums. When the 220 grainers are used, velocity is lower and the flat trajectory is then compromised to some degree. However, if your hunting distance is more like 200 yards, the 220 grainer with a sectional density of .331 is even better yet. And you long range shooters should not overlook the benefit of simply zeroing in farther out.

[Redhawk1]

With all I said above. In my 300 win mag I prefer the 165 and 180 gr. bullets. If I need a bigger bullet, I just use my 375 H&H.  

[Jimi]

Oh, you had to bring up the .375 H&H, didn't you? Almost a hundred years old and still the single most versatile cartridge in the world. You want to talk about energy... now you're talking. I took a pronghorn at 500 yards with a 235 grain bullet and I don't think I've ever seen an animal killed so dead. It didn't just drop in its tracks... it crumbled in a cloud of dust. So while I'm going on about using heavier bullets in the .300's, there is a lot to be said for using a lighter bullet (and I use the term "lighter" loosely) in a .375. I keep telling myself I am going to work on some loads for a 210 grain bullet but I haven't done it yet. The 235 grain bullet shoots as flat as a .270 with a 135 grain bullet, but it carries a much stronger "message."

[Lawdog]

A 50 grain bullet from a .220 Swift has the same muzzle energy as a 405 grain .45-70. Which is a better big game round?

Care to tell how you came up with these figures?  I come up with about a 1,000 fpe. difference.  Lawdog
 

[roper]

Their is always the velocity and BC to consider when selecting that bullet.    You can get a 165 gr 30 cal bullet to give the same engery as a 200gr 30cal bullet but if you could get the velocity to match then the 200gr would have more.  Now I'm just talking about a 30cal not a 375 or 338mag.  The short neck in the 300mag case is just an old wives tale.  If you look at the 1000yd match using a 300mag using a 240SMK.  You have a barrel twisted,length and throated for that round get the velocity with the lowest SE.  When you move to in case say to a 300wbyAI it's time in flight.  What I'm trying to say it's the bullet that counts.  Tom Holland

[Ramrod]

A 50 grain bullet from a .220 Swift has the same muzzle energy as a 405 grain .45-70. Which is a better big game round?

Care to tell how you came up with these figures?  I come up with about a 1,000 fpe. difference.  Lawdog
 

The old factory 405 grain SAMMI spec loads were 1330 fps. and 1590 ft lbs.
The 50 grain 220 Swift shows 3780 fps for 1586 ft. lbs. Source 1994 Remington catolog ballistic chart.
I don't want to get into comparing apples to oranges, Ie factory loads with reloads.

[Jimi]

The bullet definitely counts. But when you say [/quote]You can get a 165 gr 30 cal bullet to give the same engery as a 200gr 30cal bullet but if you could get the velocity to match then the 200gr would have more.

you're talking Newtonian physics... but you then go on to discuss bullet qualities, and that is key. I think that people get caught up in "energy," and in many people's view the faster the bullet the greater the energy. And that is true enough... but it ignores the ability to convert the energy into the game. I am confident in contending that a slower 220 grain bullet is a more effective killer then a faster 165 grain bullet. The velocity doesn't buy you much because you can't convert it... especially with a smaller bullet having poorer sectional density. All that a faster bullet does is ruin meat, and God I hate that.

[Ramrod]

I think killing power has alot more to do with bullet momentum than energy figures. Fiddling around with a few more hundred fps. here, or 10 or 20 grains bullet weight there, while all good fun, means little in the real world.
I agree with Redhawk1 here,

If I need a bigger bullet, I just use my 375 H&H.

I have a reproduction Civil War musket that lobs 560 grain chunks of lead at less than 1000 fps, with about 1100 ft. lbs of muzzle energy. (and alot less at 100 yards). Hardly enough for deer, if the "energy boys" are to be believed. Yet I have read several period accounts of this load passing completely through a horse at more than 300 yards.

[roper]

The bullet definitely counts. But when you say

You can get a 165 gr 30 cal bullet to give the same engery as a 200gr 30cal bullet but if you could get the velocity to match then the 200gr would have more.

you're talking Newtonian physics... but you then go on to discuss bullet qualities, and that is key. I think that people get caught up in "energy," and in many people's view the faster the bullet the greater the energy. And that is true enough... but it ignores the ability to convert the energy into the game. I am confident in contending that a slower 220 grain bullet is a more effective killer then a faster 165 grain bullet. The velocity doesn't buy you much because you can't convert it... especially with a smaller bullet having poorer sectional density. All that a faster bullet does is ruin meat, and God I hate that.

[/quote]      

Jimi, just look at the Ballistic Table in back of some reloading manuals.  I for one do count "energy" along with velocity and the BC some consider the sectional density.  I'm allowed one bull and one cow sometimes might get a second cow tag so I do use that tag for meat.  I'm not a fancy shooter just get them in the heart and the amount of meat wasted isn't that much normally rib some around the shoulder I did shoot one at the base of the neck to head did riun about 1/4 of the neck.  In over 40yrs at this one learns thing alot of different styles and theorys on bullets.   I cann't honestly say if I ruin more meat than the next guy.  We got a guy who cuts meat for the locals here and he tries to save the bullets from elk that he finds.  You can tell by the color if the elks been carring lead.  90% of the 30 cal bullet have the perfect expansion you will see more heavier bullets in the 200 and 220 that didn't expand.  Don't find too many above 338 cal when you do it's normally a bullet they been carring awhile from a long range shot outside of the barrel marks looks new.  I've been awful lucky haven't lost an elk I've shot.  Well good luck to all on this coming elk season.

[Jimi]

roper, you definitely have the quote function down better than I do... and you highlight something that I sometimes forget... We (I) sometimes get caught up in these discussions when in fact, for North America, pretty much anything will kill a deer or a pig, and elk and moose aren't that much tougher. My mind always goes back to Africa where the nuances of what we're talking about is much more relevant. And you highlight something else... Nothing supercedes a well-placed shot. Happy hunting.

[jro45]

In my 300 I load the 220gr bullets for any game with in 200 yds.  My 338 RUM I loaded some 250 gr RN bullets going 2750 FPS for black bear up close and personal 25 yds. I have used the 220gr bullets in my 300 for black bear before. The 338 or the 300 will do the job for black bear.