Author Topic: Conservative Judges Protecting Your Second Amendment Rights?  (Read 555 times)

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Offline fe352v8

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Conservative Judges Protecting Your Second Amendment Rights?
« on: April 26, 2005, 01:10:50 PM »
In a 5-3 decision, the court ruled in favor of Gary Sherwood Small of Pennsylvania. The court reasoned that U.S. law, which prohibits felons who have been convicted in "any court" from owning guns, applies only to domestic crimes.

Concurring:

Breyer, appointed by, Clinton (wrote majority opinion)
Stevens, appointed by, Ford
O’Conner, appointed by, Reagen
Souter, , appointed by, GH Bush
Ginsburg, appointed by, Clinton

Dissenting:

Thomas, appointed by, GH Bush (wrote dissenting opinion)
Scalia, appointed by, Reagan
Kennedy, appointed by, Reagan

Rhenquist did not vote

Life is no joke but funny things happen

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Offline Leverdude

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Conservative Judges Protecting Your Second
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 01:46:00 PM »
Theyre your rights too.

What did this guy do?

If he wasn't convicted in the US of whatever he did do then I guess I'd be of the mind that its irrelevent in regards to his rights as a citizen of the USA.
The rest of the world doesn't always afford people what we call fair trials & therefore IMO dont matter here if we're talking about an American citizen. Heck fairness isn't a top pryority here anymore either.
This guy is a lucky fellow IMO.

I know people who cant posess guns anymore because a woman put a restraining order against them with no cause whatsoever other than they knew a way to get the guy where it hurts. We aint innocent till proven guilty anymore, just innocent till someone says we might do something.
Kinda like taking a persons drivers license away because he "might" drink & drive.
"Your Honor, I saw Joe Schmoe buy a beer once & now I feel threatened when he drives by"
Only works with guns so far, we'll see what the future holds.  :?
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Offline FWiedner

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Conservative Judges Protecting Your Second
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2005, 01:49:26 PM »
The 2nd Amendment says that a particular right shall not be infringed.

Any law that is contrary to the Constitution is void at it's inception.

Doesn't that lead one to believe that any law attempted by Congress, or ruled upon by the Supreme Court that results in, or proposes, any federally mandated legal barrier between a man and the object of that right is voided upon it's creation?

As to the court's ruling being applicable to domestic crimes only, doesn't the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court apply to "domestic" laws only?

Looks like the court making decisions regarding (2) areas where it has no authority.

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline fe352v8

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Conservative Judges Protecting Your Second
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2005, 01:55:05 PM »
Small was convicted by a Japanese court of smuggling weapons into Japan.  They were ruling on the Federal Law prohibiting convicted felons from possessing firearms.  The law has been on the books for over 40 years.

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Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2005, 02:22:07 PM »
Quote from: fe352v8
Small was convicted by a Japanese court of smuggling weapons into Japan.  They were ruling on the Federal Law prohibiting convicted felons from possessing firearms.  The law has been on the books for over 40 years.

life is no joke but funny things happen

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Far as I know we dont have any laws regarding what we do in Japan.

Fwieds right IMO in everything he said but I guess the people who are smarter than me that run our country use a different dictionary.

IMO its just a matter of time till the blind folks in this country wake up to the fact that theyre far from free anymore. Hopefully it wont be too late.
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Offline fe352v8

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Conservative Judges Protecting Your Second
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2005, 03:43:11 PM »
The Statute is 18 U.S.C. 922(2)(1) the clause in question was, “is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year”.  The question was does “any court”; also mean courts in foreign countries.  The dissenting justices apparently feel that indictment or conviction of a crime in a foreign country should carry the same weight as indictment or conviction in a US court.

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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 04:00:37 AM »
Related article:

Court rules on convict gun ownership

HOPE YEN
Associated Press


WASHINGTON - People convicted of crimes overseas still can own guns in the United States, the Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.

In a 5-3 decision, the court ruled in favor of Gary Sherwood Small of Pennsylvania. The court reasoned that U.S. law, which prohibits felons who have been convicted in "any court" from owning guns, applies only to domestic crimes.

Justice Stephen G. Breyer, writing for the majority, said interpreting the law broadly to apply to foreign convictions would be unfair to defendants because procedural protections are often less applied in international courts. If Congress intended foreign convictions to apply, they can rewrite the law to say so specifically, he wrote.

"We have no reason to believe that Congress considered the added enforcement advantages flowing from inclusion of foreign crimes, weighing them against, say, the potential unfairness of preventing those with inapt foreign convictions from possessing guns," Breyer wrote.

He was joined by Justices John Paul Stevens, Sandra Day O'Connor, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

In a dissent, Justice Clarence Thomas argued that Congress intended for foreign convictions to apply. "Any" court literally means any court, he wrote.

"Read naturally, the word 'any' has an expansive meaning, that is, 'one or some indiscriminately of whatever kind,'" Thomas said.

He was joined by Justices Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy.

Small had answered "no" to the felony conviction question on a federal form when he bought a handgun in 1998, a few days after he was paroled from a Japanese prison for violating Japan's weapons laws.

He was indicted in 2000 for lying on the form and for illegally owning two pistols and 335 rounds of ammunition. He later entered a conditional guilty plea pending the outcome of this case.

The Bush administration had asked the court to apply the statute to foreign convictions.

The ruling, which was divided mostly along ideological lines, created a bit of an anomalous result for the conservatives Scalia and Thomas, who generally oppose the expanded use of international law to support decisions interpreting the Constitution.

In their opinion, Scalia and Thomas stuck to their conservative philosophy of interpreting statutes according to their strict, "dictionary" meaning, rather than delving into a presumed intent of Congress. They also backed the pro-prosecution stance of the Bush administration.

But their dissent also embraced the notion that foreign law should be incorporated more deeply into the U.S. court system, with Thomas calling it wrong that the majority opinion effectively required Congress to be specific anytime it wanted foreign law to apply.

"After today's ruling, the only way for Congress to ensure that courts will construe a law to refer to foreign facts or entities is to describe those facts of entities specifically as foreign. If this is not a special burden of specificity, I am not sure what is," Thomas wrote.

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist did not participate in deciding the case, which was heard in November when he was undergoing treatment for thyroid cancer.

The case is Small v. United States, 03-750.

http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/11493044.htm

.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 06:10:13 AM »
At least the majority of these judges still believe we are an independent  soverign nation, unlike our President. I cant see how forien law should effect our rights.
If I remember right guns are all but outlawed in Japan, so if they wont let Americans do whats legal in America in Japan then why should we punish Americans for doing whats legal in America just because its not somewhere else.
If our government gets involved at all in these cases it should be to intervene on the side of its citizens to protect their rights.

Our President should watch his mouth IMO he's far from qualified to decide on judicial proceedings.

Its very sad that the Government we support does all in its power to put us down.
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Offline FWiedner

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Conservative Judges Protecting Your Second
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2005, 06:46:02 AM »
Thomas Jefferson once said that "The only legitimate use of government authority is to protect the rights of The People."

Compare this the to the opinion of the current administration, wherein the decision of "any court" seem to be sufficient to take action to attempt to deprive men of their rights.

Is it "any court" or " for any reason"?

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Mauser

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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2005, 07:27:08 AM »
Hey, the bad guys got one right for a change!  Actually, trying to be a Supreme Court Justice and following only one philosophy in decision-making like strict dictionary interpretations can make for a bad decision from time to time.  

The only philosophy I wish the Supremes followed is: If the law at issue grows the govt, in any way, it is unconstitutional.

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2005, 12:15:38 PM »
If the law issued infringes on ANY right enumerated in the constitution its unconstitutional, period.


I'v been going the rounds with my state legislators & governor over a proposed bill theyre voting on soon. Every time I bring up the constitution, either our state one or the federal one they turn into lawyers & start talking in legalese about how those documents arent absolute & were intended to be modified as time goes on & social changes occur.
I disagree & told them those documents were written to prevent them from doing just what theyre doing. Problem is I think they understand english about as well as I understand legalese.

Seems most of these folks believe the only things that are absolute are the laws they fabricate & get passed.

The one were fighting over now forbids mentally ill people from buying guns or obtaining a permit to carry (redundant), forbids carrying while intoxicated (when pushed they admit that as far as they know no permit holder in the state has caused gun problems while drunk) & last but certainly the worst IMO is it will forbid posession of ANY firearm if one is refused a permit for ANY reason.

None of these measures will reduce crime unless one counts the law abiding folks who will become felons overnight, most with no idea its even coming. They suck, these legislators & politicians, no question, but even sadder is the fact that so many gun owners just sit back & are oblivious till its too late.  :?
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Offline Robert

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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2005, 04:45:26 AM »
This ruling should also apply to people with B.S. convictions in New Jersey, New York and California.  All three states should be considered foreign countries.
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