Author Topic: Another USH 12 or 20 thread...  (Read 706 times)

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Offline MI.sabot

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Another USH 12 or 20 thread...
« on: April 27, 2005, 04:24:38 AM »
I think I've read every thread in this forum regarding the Ultra Slug Hunters and I've jumped on the USH bandwagon.  I just ordered my son the 20 ga. youth model and I'm anxious to see how he and it performs.  No doubt in my mind that both will do well.
 
Now dad's getting the itch to upgrade from his 870 12 ga. (scoped w/rifled slug barrel).  I'm trying to restrain myself from pulling the trigger now and get rid of the 870 for an USH.  I think the best thing to do is wait and see how my kid's USH handles at the range and in the field and then maybe pick one up for myself next year.  
 
The 20 ga. selection for my son was a no brainer by virtue of his age and size.  Dad has more options!  
 
First, I've never used anything but a 12 ga. for deer hunting.  The consistent negative comment I keep reading about the USH 12 ga. is the recoil.  But can it be any worse than an 870's?  I would think it would be less because of its weight.  Grant it, I haven't shot the 1,900 fps slugs out of the 870 and personally me shooting them out of the USH would be an exception rather than the norm.  But recoil out of the 870 shooting 1,450 fps Lightfields and Copper Solids is not pleasant, but certainly is tolerable.  
 
Hunting in Michigan's farm belt, you have two options: 1) you hunt the open fields, or 2.) you hunt the woodlots.  I've always preferred being in the woods and I'm kind of stuck hunting in one area of the property because of other friends being elsewhere.  That being said, I have no more than a 75 yd. shot and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

From everything I've read the 20 ga is very effective out to that range. But what makes the 12 or 20 decision difficult for me is seeing how those bucks react after getting nailed with a 12 ga. sabot.  I'm having a hard time being convinced that a 5/8-6/8 oz round out of a 20 ga. would do the same job.  Maybe you all can try convincing me some more!   The energy of a 12 ga Lightfield at 100 yards (1,378#s) is more than the 20 ga Lightfield at 50 yards (1,351#s).  To get  the same energy level out of a 20 ga at a 100 yards and beyond you need to go to a 1,900 fps sabot that's going to leave a smaller hole and inherently create more recoil coming out of the 20.  So I'm not sure what would be accomplished in the end by going the 20 ga route? Maybe the 12 ga is over-kill inside of a 100 yds to begin with and is just clouding the picture?
 
I've picked up the 12 ga once in the store and my initial reaction was: "my gosh this is a canon!"  I need to pick it up a few more times to determine if it's something I would even be comfortable with regardless of how well it shoots.  I will say the 20 ga Ultra deluxe shouldered like dream...man it felt sweet!
 
I have a year to decide but at the moment I'm still leaning towards the 12 ga... if I can get comfortable with it's weight.  We’ll already have my son's 20 ga. in the house and the 12 might allow for some options for either of us down the road.  

I would really appreciate to hear your comments, your experiences with either the 12 or 20, or if there's anything else I need to consider in this decision.

Thanks
H&R Ultra Slug Hunter (12 ga.)
NEF SS Sidekick Muzzleloader (50 cal.)
Remington 870 Express (12 ga.)
Stevens 311-H SxS (20 ga.)
CZ 452 American (22lr)

Offline GLC

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Another USH 12 or 20 thread...
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2005, 04:42:31 AM »
I posted elsewhere on this board asking about slug guns.  I think the H&R is tops for accuracy from what I've read, but I'm looking hard at the 870 or the 1100 with fully rifled cantilever barrel because I want (need?) a good field shot gun to put a vent rib barrel on during other seasons.  

What kind of groups at 100 yards did you get with the 870?  Where I hunt, I can easily be presented with a 100 yard shot and even a 150 yard shot but would probably not take it.  Average range of deer I've shot there has been from 20-80 yards.  

As far as the 20 vs 12 thing goes, I think the 20 has a lot going for it with a good selection of new improved sabots and the accuracy of the H&R.

I say shoot the 20 when you get it set up and see how it performs, recoils, and handles.  The 20 will certainly kill a deer without a problem.  My grandfather shot deer with a Winchester model 12 in 20 gauge with foster slugs regularly.

Good shooting.
Marlin Firearms- Only the best leverguns

Offline MI.sabot

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Another USH 12 or 20 thread...
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2005, 06:06:51 AM »
GLC:

Sent you a PM.
H&R Ultra Slug Hunter (12 ga.)
NEF SS Sidekick Muzzleloader (50 cal.)
Remington 870 Express (12 ga.)
Stevens 311-H SxS (20 ga.)
CZ 452 American (22lr)

Offline Bob W.

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Another USH 12 or 20 thread...
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2005, 01:57:42 PM »
can't say I've had personal experience that your looking for but I've had some of the same questions / concerns that you have.  From the research and questions that I have asked,  I have come to these conclusions.  Accuracy is not the issue .20 or .12 tracker or Ultra - both good to excellent.  Power, out to 125-150 yards the .20 has shown (with the right slugs) to be an efficient deer slayer with sometimes complete penetration using the likes of barnes expander bullets - probably no one needs more power ( the .30-06 vs .338 ?).  The recoil of the .12 is probably not a concern in the ultra model but probably is in the tracker, the physical weight of the .12 ultra is probably more of an issue.  So what's the gun to use?  For me its looking like a tracker .20 (5 1/2 lbs) or the ultra .20 (8lbs) but I got to admit I'm really partial to the .12 ( who knows why).  As far as comparing to the 870 ( which I have) - fully rifled barrel approx. $250 gun (870 express gun) approx. $260 Cost of tracker approx. $140 Ultra approx $200 extra smoothbore barrel approx $40 No brainer to me unless you have probs. with single shots.  good luck deciding!

Offline Mac11700

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Another USH 12 or 20 thread...
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2005, 02:24:56 PM »
I have used just about every type of 870 with just about everytype of slug they make and hunted in a shotgun only state(Illinois) up untill 4 years ago...and also I owned and shot  the 1100's in the slug configurations.....both are excellent guns...and now with the advantage of getting a bull barrel for the 870...it will make it a harder choice to make for ya....but I will say one thing about them...unless you locktite or epoxy the barrels in  permenatly...you will not get the accuracy that either the 20ga USH or the 12 ga. USH will give you...

As far as true recoil...not percieved recoil...the Ultra Slug Hunters will give less than any of the Remington 870's,due primaraly to the stock configuration and the weight...with the advantage going to the 1100's gas dampening...

Accuracy wise...the H&R's are the best...they will shoot right along side of the Tar-Hunts with the right ammo...and outshoot most others...with the right ammo...heck...they will out shoot a-lot of centerfire rifles at 100 yards...if the truth be told...

One thing that will make the world of difference to any of the Handi rifles or USH slugguns...is making a soft cheek piece using a Uncle Mike's shell holder on the butt stock...and putting a piece of soft foam rubber under it...it will take all of the pain away from your face when shooting heavy loads...and make it 100% more comfortable to shoot...also...install a high quality recoil pad...like a LimbSaver on it...these 2 things will turn a otherwise unpleasent shooting experiance into a more tolarable one...and extend your range time with them.....During your actual hunt...your adrenaline will be pumping and I doubt you hardly notice the recoil...unless you have developed a major flinch with the gun prior to going hunting...and up in MI having a warmer softer cheek piece will go a long way on those fridged mornings...

Now about the difference between the 12 and the 20...a larger metplat on the slug accounts for the better reaction from the deer...it is dystroying more on contact and expanding to a larger diameter...and it will do this from the muzzle out ...

If the weight isn't objectional...I suggest you go with the 12ga USH...you won't be disapointed when you get a nice bang-flop out at 75yards with it.. and if you ever get to hunt in a different location that the shots are out to about 150-175...you'll be glad you did....

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline white eagle

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Another USH 12 or 20 thread...
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 03:59:35 PM »
I had the very same questions about the USH last year ....I did buy the 12 ga USH and I am glad I did ...Recoil is not an issue for me..... What I do like is the bang flops that I get on deer with it .I shot a doe this past season @ 80 yds and it was just that BANG FLOP no kickin or fussin just tipped over ...end of story......... Go with the 12 you won't be sorry

Offline WNY_Whitetailer

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Another USH 12 or 20 thread...
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2005, 03:04:38 AM »
When it comes down to it either the 20 or the 12 will efficiently and ethically harvest a whitetail at any slug gun range that you choose.  Some say that the 12 will do it better but I say hogwash to that...Choose the one that feels more comfortable to you and have at it.  By the way, I have the 12 but a 20 is in my future...I can see it now.  It may be a few years but I will have one.
Patience comes with age and You can't teach common sense