How Many here shoot cast bullets in your milsurps

[jh45gun]

Just wondering and what kind of success have you had.

[Robert]

I just recently bought .323 molds for my Mauser. I was pretty dismayed with the bullet selection for 8mm jacketed bullets and the ridculous prices.  I can buy milsurp ammo for less than 5 bucks a box...but it is corrosive and I get sick of the 3-day cleaning process...  But I cant see paying over 20 dollars for 100 jacketed bullets...(more$$$$ than the loaded milsurp ammo)...and then the cost of the powder and primers.  I have a lot of lead so 30 bucks  for a lee mold and sizer and about 20 bucks for 1,000 Hornady gas-checks.....I am into 50 Bucks, and will see a return for the investment after 50 bullets.  That makes it real easy.

[kevin.303]

i've got a Lee .311 mold that casts 185 gr. bullets and about 50 pounds of lead. i plan to use the same bullet in my Krag and Lee-Enfield, and when i get a 1911 i'll start casting .45  bullets as well

[Racepres]

In my limited experience cast bullets are the "berries'. Most especially in a milsurp.. I only use Lee molds cause that's the way it's been since the 80's ... the 130 gr. 7mm bullet has performed fine in not only the 7x57 but also my 7tcu Contender, the .309 x 170 gr. fn does 1 to 1.5 MOA from my 1916 mex, and pretty good from the mod.94 win. but it does wonderful things in a TC w/ that bore... I am currently "working up" a 8x57 loading.  For my $$ the cast bullet gets the nod!!!   Marty

[jh45gun]

I am just getting started good in this but I shot 2 deer this year with my 308 Encore using a cast 150 grain bullet. I am going to load cast in my 2 Mosin Nagants a 1916 91 and a Polish 44 , My Swiss K31, and my 8MM Turk,  Plus for my 30/30 and I have been for my 45/70. I agree cast bullets are great and the only way I can afford to shoot a lot. I also use 2400 for powder as it works good and is miserly.    Jim

[Robert357]

I enjoy shooting reduced load cast bullets rounds in my MN1891/30.

I will start, by sharing my jacketed bullet load and then two cast bullet loads and the sighting adjustments.

My jacketed bullet load, which is slightly less than a full power load, but should be good for hunting is:

180grain .311 Remington 180 grain bulk Core-Lokt RN SP (Purchased through Midway on internet)
41.8 grains of Hodgdon 4895
Winchester Large Rifle Primer, Winchester brass
about 3-inch groups at 100 yards 5 shot groups with 1939 Tula MN 1891/30, issue iron sights & my tired old eyes.
OAL about 3.024 inch.

Reduced loads for target shooting.

175 grain cast lead gas checked bullet, sized to .311inch, 33.6 grains of H-4895
155 grain cast lead gas checked bullet,, sized to .311inch, 15.4 grains of Alliant 2400

Both of the above reduced loads are about as accurate at the 180 jacketed load, much easier on the shoulder, but require the rifle iron sights to be adjusted for a theoretically farther distance due to lower velocity.

Once the MN site is zeroed by adjusting the front site to be right on at 100 yards for the jacketed load, the following sight adjustments result in "in the black shots."

175 grain----rear site to 400 meter setting for 100 yd zero
------------rear site to 600 meter setting for 200 yd zero

155 grain----rear site to 600 meter setting for 100 yard zero

I think that cast bullet shooting a milsurp is an interesting chose.  While a lot of surpluse corrosive ammo may be as cheap or slightly cheaper that cast bullet reloads, depending on if you cast and if you get free lead, the cast bullets are much easier on the shoulder and allow a lot more range time for practice.  

The two Ed Harris reduced loads, The Load with Red Dot and The Universal load with Alliant 2400 are both great starting points for having fun with milsurp rifles.  I also like the Hodgdon 4895 - 50%to 60% cast bullet load.

[jgalar]

I use Unique and the Lee CTL312-160-2R bullet for light loads in Nagants and Enfield . I use the Lee C312-185-1R bullet for heavier 2400 loads. I will try GreenDot also for light loads as I have about 2 lbs of that powder. I use the Lee CTL312-160-2R in my sks rifles - still trying to find the right powder for these. I have the Lee C324-175-1R and C329-205-1R that I will be trying in different Mausers, but haven't had the time to try them out yet. I have a Swiss on order and will be using the CTL312-160-2R bullet in that. I use the Lee 311-093-1R with Unique in my Nagant revolvers.

Problem I have is I buy guns faster than I can work up and try loads.

[ajj]

Working up a cast load can be a real project depending on the individual rifle. The K31 has a very short throat meaning the bullet is usually seated pretty deeply into the case. The 6.5 Swede with smaller bore and fast twist is very sensitive to alloy hardness and velocity. You almost never hear of a Lee-Enfield shooting cast bullets well without a lot of work. Springfields and Mosin Nagants seem to be the most cast-bullet-friendly of the milsurps. Ordinarily you need a good, unpitted barrel that has been completly cleaned of copper to have any hope for good groups. (If you go to the range with both bullets, shoot the cast bullets first.) First, slug the bore. A bullet one or two or three thousandths oversize should work fine, but one thousandth too small probably won't.

[jh45gun]

From what I have read so far the 8MM Mauser is a good cast bullet shooter. C. E. Harris in his article that even with a worn or salt and pepper bore good results can be obtained once you clean the bore well and keep cleaning and shooting it with cast until the bore is "Consistent" You must also keep under 1800 FPS for hunting and under 1600 for Target work. Rule of thumb is to size bullets .002 inch over groove diameter. There is more to it and the article is in the {Handloaders Digest /1994 /13th edition} Your local library should be able to locate a copy for you if they do not have it. The article is called "Cast Bullets are best in Military Surplus Rifles" Good article and is 8 pages long with some good info expecially for folks just starting out or for those who have loaded a while.  He also states that the Springfields, Enfields, Finn Mosins in the 28 and 28/30 models and the K31 are all serious contenders for match shooting. Note he does not say any others as he is talking 30 cal here.  Good article if you have not read it and plan on shooting cast cheap in the milsurps it is a good read. Jim

[zrifleman]

I used to get laughed at and warned about ruining my M1 Garand in cast bullet matches. It got quiet when they watched me knock down 5 rams in a row at 200 yds. I used a gas check bullet and reduced loads with IMR 4198. About every 200 rds I had to clean the gas port.

[Dan Chamberlain]

8mm, 24.47 Yugo

17 gr of 2400

175 grain gas check, hard cast (wheel weight and cold quenched)

Sized .325

Rear sight to 450 yards

Lousy 98 Mauser milsurp sights and 50 year old eyes gives me 2" 50 yard rapid fire groups of 10 shots.  This is with absolutely no load development or extra work.  Load'em up and shoot'em.  

Better sights and more methodical shooting would half that.


Dan C

[1911crazy]

I have been afraid of using cast bullets in my rifles because of leading. I have had a problem using cast bullets in my handguns with leading the barrels.  I just tried some Bear Creek Supply lead cast moly coated bullets in my handguns and i had no leading at all. I just may try some in my rifles soon too.                                                  BigBill

[Mikey]

BigBill - for me to accurately shoot cast from my semi-auto milsurps, of which you have a large bunch, I would have to slug the barrels and then find gas-checked bullets at least .001" over bore diameter.  I would probably do the same for my milsurp bolt actions too.  

Most used milsuprs have been shot enough to take any manufacturing constrictions and sharpness out fo the rifling so you should have the same effect, or almost the same effect, as firelapping.  With that, I would go with the gas-checked cast bullets .001" over bore, and they should give you good accuracy without leading.  HTH.  Mikey.

[1911crazy]

Mikey we have to limit our powder charge to prevent leading the barrel also right?  Another question i have there was a copper cup we could put on the rear of the lead cast bullets too I remember seeing them years ago.                                                                     BigBill

[Robert357]

Mikey we have to limit our powder charge to prevent leading the barrel also right?  Another question i have there was a copper cup we could put on the rear of the lead cast bullets too I remember seeing them years ago.                                                                     BigBill

Actually the reduced power is to slow the thing down.  It is the speed/gas pressure that determines leading.

Actually if you believe the Lee Reloading Manual section on lead hardness versus max pressure after ignition, it all kind of makes sense.  The harder the lead the higher the pressure before the lead strength limits are compromised.

Now that copper cup, is normally called a gas check.  It fits over the base of a cast lead bullet of the right shape and allows you to shoot your cast lead bullet a lot faster without leading.  I have read where some guys shooting really hard lead bullets, with gas checks and just the right lube can get their bullets going just about as fast as normal jacketed bullets fly out of barrels in some calibers.

Cast bullets have lots more variables, and generally are a bit softer on the shoulder.  For rifles I really prefer gas checked bullets if I am shooting cast bullets as for most situations it just about totally removes leading and the resulting cleaning until I have shot a goodly number of rounds and my shoulder can use a break from action at the firing line.

Bill, as a fan of many milsurp bolt actions, you really need to try a little bit of reduced load cast bullet shooting.  It is a hoot!  16 grains of Alliant 2400 plus or minus a little is the CE Harris Universal Load and it works on most milsurp rifles with standard military weight bullets.

[jgalar]

Don't judge shooting cast bullets by your experience from shooting commercial cast bullets in handguns. Most of the commercial stuff isn't sized to the right diameter, is made from to hard of lead, and use hard lube. If the bullet is undersize you will get gas blowing by the bullet melting it and causing leading. A softer lead will obturate and fill the bore. If you find your commercial made bullets down range after shooting you will notice the lube looks about like it did before firing. A lube doesn't do any good unless it gets transferred to the bore.

Mil-surps and bullets cast from wheel weights are made for each other. Once you find a source of cheap wheel weights the cost of your bullets is basically the cost of the gas check. Gas checks are about $20 for a 1000. With the miserly amount of powder used you can load a box of just about any mil-surp cartridges for less than what you would pay for a box steel cased 7.62x39.

Besides of being inexpensive cast bullets can be very accurate also. My light loads have about the same energy as a 357 and are a pleasure to shoot. You can load up to around 30-30 power without having to use voodoo, human sacrifices and other black arts in your load development.

Don't be concerned about slugging barrels. You can buy everything you need to use at Wal-Mart for a couple of bucks and it takes maybe 5-10 minutes to slug and measure a barrel.

[Harry Snippe]

Well
the only mil. rifle that I currently have is the swede 6.5x55  and I do not see much offered in lead bullets for this rifle.

I have played with reduced loads in the 45/70 and had some issues with leading .

Hand guns as the 357 there is always some leading that needs to be cleaned.

How ever the 44 Mag in a lever does not seem to require that much cleaning once the bore has seasoned .

In the 30/30 Win 94 I find 26 grs of R#7 and the 170 GC bullet sized .309 in winchester brass and primers fly about the same speed as the jacketed .
Then in my 35 Rem 336/35 RC  I load the rcbs 205 gr. GC over 40 grs of Varget  with very good results.This last bullet is at bore size and is #2 alloy.
Now I could not get overbore bullets for the 45/70 and I finally sold the rifle, since it was overbored and also had restrictions.The1894  marlin shots .430 sized bullets with no issues ,as do the two other levers as before .
All my lead is of #2 alloy, and the 30/30 Winchester gets the .01 overbore the rest at bore size.

The 44 shoots reduced loads while the 35 Remington load is 1/2 gr over Max.

The 357 hand gun leads real bad other than with light target loads .

So I tend to think in all of this that it more in the the powder that is used plus the gas check. the slower powder probably burns over a longer course of time that the faster pistol powder .
This would explain the leading with the 357 with 231W or H titlegroup and no leading per say with the hot loaded 35 Remington with varget .
Now I have tried the varget in the 358W with good results as it fills the case better than the R-7 as with the35 Rem.

So I would apply these  powders to the 8MM as well, and they should work fine @about the 2000 to 2100 FPS  Vel.
Happy

[rocklock]

Cast bullets are the only way I can afford to shoot most of my surplus rifles.

In .30 caliber I use cast in:

.30-40 Krag
.30-'06
7.5x54 MAS
7.5x55 Swiss
7.62x54R Russian

In 8mm:

8x50R Lebel
8x50R Austrian
8x52R Siamese
8x57 Mauser (J-Bore)
8x57 Mauser (S-Bore)
8x58R Danish

Black Powder, but still surplus:

11x59R Gras
.43 Mauser
.45-70 Government
12.7x44R Swedish
.50-70 Government

[jh45gun]

Sounds like you got some dandies there Rocklock. Are any of those black powder ones Rollingblocks like maybe the 12.7x44R or the 50/70? ? Just wondering.  Jim