Author Topic: The Superlight Blues... (Read 8056 times)

perklo · « **on:** May 06, 2005, 10:40:36 AM »

:wink:

About 3 years ago, I bought a Superlight .243. I did a trigger job, washered the barrel lug, put on a scope, and tried 85, 90 and 100 grain ammo in it.

No luck, like many Superlight owners, I found that unless by luck of draw you got the rare shooter, these are the quirkiest Handi's around. "Pattern" was the best description, not group...

So I stuck it away and vowed to get back to it later.

Later came lately in a fit o' boredom.

First off, the rail that came with it for scope mounting was way too long for firm mounting on the thin barrel. I had an old rail for the discontinued H&R Model 058, but while the holes were the same spacing the chamber contour on 058's was different. Only the outside edges of the rail bottom contacted the chamber top on the Superlight.

No problem, I wrapped sandpaper on the outside of the Superlight chamber and set the rail on it and sawed away! Didn't take but about 15 minutes to match the contour for full contact.

With that solved, I had always noticed that, since they didn't make a special foreend for the thin barrel on these guns, the synthetic one from the factory had a LOT of side to side play. That couldn't be good for accuracy! The wood foreends are stiffer, and I had one from another Handi. I also had a Metal foreend screw-on extension to replace the composite one all guns but Buffalo Classics come with.

Soooo, I drilled some holes inside the foreend channel, broke open a single rifle Brownell's Glasbed kit, wrapped the barrel with electrical tape and painted the contact surfaces with release agent. I bedded from an inch in front of the rear of the channel to an inch in front of the foreend screw lug.

I put a popscile stick between the barrel and the front of the channel before I screwed it down and let it to cure overnight. This would give me "float' in front of the bedding.

I applied the release agent correctly, as it popped loose the next morning. I let it cure another two days before sanding, removing the release agent, etc.

To match the look and feel of the synthetic buttstock, I used a can of the Black Spray Grit Epoxy paint from Brownell's. It's a bit shiny though, so I put a coat of flat camo black on top of the rest.

To take ALL the variables out of my range work, I put on a better scope - a Nikon ProStaff 2x7x32. I have three boxes of ammo; two Federal 100 grainers (nosler partition and standard soft point) and some 80 grain soft points.

Now if I just can get to the range for a test spin... Whew!!

- perklo

MSP Ret · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2005, 11:52:57 AM »

Well get to the range and let us all know how it shoots will you!!! I have often lamented the poor inherent accuracy of the superlights, OK for hunting out to 100 yards or so on deer size game I thought but not much good past that, unless you got lucky and got one of the few, a good shooter right out of the box. I hope your fix works perklo, and I for one am awaiting your results!!! Thanks for all your efforts....<><.... :grin:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2005, 12:04:59 PM »

Perklo, my .243 Ultra shoots the Federal Classic Hi Shock 100gr sub moa, they renamed it Power Shok but I think it's the same stuff, also I'd try the Federal Fusion ammo, it shot good in Mac's .243 Ultra.....Great work on the Handi, hope it works well for you....thanks for the bedding tips!!

Tim

olredhead · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2005, 05:39:08 AM »

Perklo you are a genius!!! Why didn't any of us other knuckleheads think of fitting the scope rail to the reciever instead of filling the gaps with ukemputty. This makes about three times you've saved my bacon, thanks for sharing.

olredhead

RussB · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2005, 06:12:41 AM »

Perklo....IMHO, you are to be complimented on this post.
Very well written, good pictures (God knows that helps.) and very concise.

Thanks for sharing.

Respectfully, Russ

nofun1 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2005, 08:13:40 AM »

excellent post thanks for sharing all the great info and pics. I too had a very disappointing 243 superlight. Mine just came back from NEF ,they said they replaced the barrel catch I wasn't able to do better than 4-6" with it I haven't had a chance to test it yet but they sent back a picture of a test group of 1.5" with winchester 80GR. well see. If you come up with a good handload please post it.

perklo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2005, 11:04:23 AM »

:?

And the results are... encouraging. And also what I expected, to be real honest.

There is no solving the problem of the Superlight thin contour barrel "walking" the shot placement once it heats up for real, say at 5-6 rounds fired in less than 3 minutes. The Superlight is not alone in this; many brands of rifles with ultralight barrels do the same. But when I first got my Superlight, the 3rd shot would "walk" several inches, and the 4th and on from there were at a point of aim 7-10 inches from the first two rounds from a truly COLD barrel. The first two would group around 1 1/2 inches apart at point-of-aim IF I had enough sense not to adjust my scope except using my first two shots out of a cold barrel as reference. Anything else was just futile.

All my recent efforts with bedding, new rail and scope did have a positive effect - It increased the number of shots you can get killing accuracy up from 2 to 4-5... For a hunting rifle, not bad but the Superlight will never be a range rifle. Once the barrel heats up a bunch, point of impact still shifts.

Here is a pix of a target from yesterday's session.

The 5 shot string outlined with a kidney shape at the top was fired at 100 yards right AFTER the 4 shot, 50 yard string where I sighted in the new scope without bore sighting. All 4 of the first shots went to point of aim as I moved the scope settings until I felt comfortable and moved the target out to 100 yards. From 100, my first shot clipped the target dot, then my second is about 6 o'clock below the first. After the 4 sighters and then the first two groupers, the barrel gets hot enough to shift impact and grouper shots 3 and 4 are right there next to each other about 8 inches to the right.

What is encouraging about that? Before my alterations shot three from a cold barrel would have been the shift round. But I had already fired 4 rounds before I shot for group at 100 yards with little cooling time between. I let the barrel cool for 30 minutes or more in the shade and then shot round 5. It is almost back to "cold" point of aim.

So I tested this theory. I moved the scope up a few clicks, cleaned the bore and then let the gun rest in the shade for an hour and 15 minutes while I hung out and talked shooting with some other shooters. When I came back, It was cold to the touch at all points from chamber to muzzle.

I then fired the four rounds circled at the pix bottom in rapid order. Not a great group, but before the alterations I would have expected the 3rd and 4th cold shots to be walking 4 to 5 inches further than it now does. A reason to celebrate? No, but with some ammo tuning it might turn this into a hunting rifle instead of a dust collector. Worth the effort? It is nice to know that (Heaven help me) I need to take a third or fourth shot to finish wounded game I can trust the weapon to hit where I'm pointing it.

A gun for an afternoon at the range it's not...

- perklo

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2005, 11:11:55 AM »

Perklo, ya might try a deresonator on it for kicks, Mac used one and it made a difference on his Weatherby .270...they cost about $15, I have one but haven't been to the range with it yet...

http://www.limbsaver.com/limbsaver/firearms/barrelderes.aspx

Longcruise · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2005, 01:02:06 PM »

Quote

ya might try a deresonator on it

Wonder if they have one that would fit a standard nef barrel?

Sort of a after market BOSS??

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2005, 01:17:42 PM »

It will fit any of the NEF barrels except those with front sights and a mannlicher stock! It's pretty darn tight on the Ultra bull barrels. It's a one-size fits all, you need WD40 on it to remove it or it will turn inside-out as you roll it off. The hole in it is about 3/8" ID, but the material is very stretchy just like the limbsaver recoil pads.

Stan in SC · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2005, 03:18:54 PM »

Perklo,The superlight is just as you said "not a range rifle".Mine has always given me 1" groups at 100 yards.I wait 15 minutes before each shot.Your shooting can be expected to "walk" when you shoot over 1 shot in 15 minutes.In a hunting situation you are not going to get but one,maybe two shots.Really shouldn't need more.

handirifle · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2005, 05:18:54 PM »

Perklo
welcome! Good to see ya here. As usual your write-ups are top notch, just like your web site. It is referred to here often for good reliable how-to information.

Just wondering, I have read many time of light barreled bolt rifles having a pressure point at the front of the forend. This has some effect on the harmonics of the barrel. In addition it might delay the motion of the heated barrel. I mean, it's not like you got something to lose, besides a few bullets.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2005, 07:56:22 PM »

perklo:

I would really try some of the Winchester Supreme ammo for it if I were you...I've had some fantastic luck with this line...and if you prefere your own handloads...then I would be more than happy to PM you my load data for the 95 grain Combined Technology Ballistic Silvertip...it shot real good from mine...even though it's a bull barrel...I do believe it would preform admirable for yours...especially the lower velocity loading...

Also...For a little cash...you could try a Deresonator on that thin contour barrel...it would change the Harmonics...and you can fine tune them on the barrel by moving them,,,,from the forearm...out to the muzzle...and see where the sweet spot for it is...it worked wonders for my Weatherby Vangaurd...I haven't had the need since purchasing mine to use them on any Handi...

Mac

Longcruise · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2005, 02:56:45 AM »

Quote

It will fit any of the NEF barrels except those with front sights and a mannlicher stock! It's pretty darn tight on the Ultra bull barrels. It's a one-size fits all, you need WD40 on it to remove it or it will turn inside-out as you roll it off. The hole in it is about 3/8" ID, but the material is very stretchy just like the limbsaver recoil pads.

Aha! :idea3: I had thought it to be metallic with a set screw but now understand.

Naturally I'll have to try to make my own at a cost of $16 plus dollars so that I can lose some money on the deal

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2005, 06:06:32 AM »

Longcruise
You sound like my. Why buy something you can make yourself at twice the cost and frustration? :grin:
My wife just cannot figure that part of me out.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2005, 05:12:01 PM »

Me thinks this information should not be lost in the archives and be added to the FAQ!!!

Tim

perklo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2005, 07:34:27 PM »

quickdtoo,

I plan to format the info (and some on the Huntsman I have) and add it to the Handi info on my guntinkerin website. My wife and I have been reformatting the look of the site and hope to go "live" in a couple of months with the new format and about four new "info" sections.

But if Fac wants to add it to the FAQs here, fine.

It is easier here than on the NEF Single Shot Yahoo group I moderate. File management is clunkier in their format.

- perklo

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 11, 2005, 10:36:46 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Me thinks this information should not be lost in the archives and be added to the FAQ!!!

Tim

It's in there.......

Mac

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2005, 08:53:15 AM »

was the whole popsicle stick just layed in the channel without the compound, then barrel placed and tightened?

perklo · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2005, 04:17:53 PM »

lostsniper,

Yes, I only put bedding in the channel about an inch or inch and a half in front the fore-end lug. All other bedding compound went behind the lug. The popsicle stick spacer to float the barrel forward of the lug may or may not have been needed, but it doesn't seem to effect the tight fit of the reworked fore-end...

I just insert the stick a bit at the front and well out of bedding compound, then tightened the fore-end down.

- perklo

JPH45 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 22, 2005, 04:48:56 PM »

Quote from: Longcruise

Quote
It will fit any of the NEF barrels except those with front sights and a mannlicher stock! It's pretty darn tight on the Ultra bull barrels. It's a one-size fits all, you need WD40 on it to remove it or it will turn inside-out as you roll it off. The hole in it is about 3/8" ID, but the material is very stretchy just like the limbsaver recoil pads.

Aha! :idea3: I had thought it to be metallic with a set screw but now understand.

Naturally I'll have to try to make my own at a cost of $16 plus dollars so that I can lose some money on the deal

Seems I have seen some heavy rubber orings used for isolation purposes. A trip to the part store might answer the question, if not there, the tractor shop. Should do the trick.

perklo · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2005, 02:41:07 AM »

:wink:

jhp45,

I'll have to try a "home" version of the $20.00 thing-a-ma-bob!

5 cents o' heater hose...!

I have to get some more ammo first.

- perklo

myarmor · « **Reply #22 on:** June 04, 2005, 06:41:33 AM »

It's been awhile sence the last post, and I'm curious.
Perklo how does your 243 shoot now? Any luck tuning it in some more?

Ruttinbuck · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2012, 04:04:04 AM »

I would like to know how it is shooting too.
First time owner and just received first Handi.
It is a 243 superlight and I am expecting great things between my hobby smith abilities and reloading.RB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2012, 05:19:29 AM »

Perklo hasn't been here for 2yrs, but lots of us are very happy with their H&R Superlights, myself included. My last is a 7mm-08 factory fitted, out of the box after I mounted a scope it shot well under an inch at 100yds with my first handload, second load did the same thing.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 23, 2012, 05:28:12 AM »

Here's Pete's recent range report on his 243 Superlight.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,265410.msg1099581876.html#msg1099581876

Quote from: petemi on September 27, 2012, 05:13:20 AM

I sent a NV 2005 frame up to Brian for a .243 Superlight barrel. Frame and barrel came back beautifully blued with a target trigger. I mounted a 4x32 Bushnell Banner which proved to be not enough scope for the rifle, so I paid a visit to my friend M. J. Pike at Dukes Sporting Goods in Newberry MI. I came home with a Bushnell Trophy 3-12x40 mounted on medium Burris Zee rings. After boresighting, shortly after dawn and before the wind came up, I sighted in at 50 yards with 85 gr. Sierra Gameking BTHPs over 41.0 gr. RL7 for a chronyed 3109 fps. The ballistics tables told me an inch high at 50 yards with this load was zeroed at 248 yards with a max point blank range of 291 yards. At 50 yards, the rifle was putting every shot within a nickle...one ragged hole. I then moved out to 300 shooting at freshly painted 20 lb propane tank. I fired 5 shots off sand bags from the hood of my truck putting them all in a 3.5 inch circle an inch or so low. I could hear the hits on the tank and see the one inch scar on the paint thru the scope set on 12 power.

The question now comes up: How can you have so many "Favorite" Handis?

Thank you again, Brian56.

Pete

Ruttinbuck · « **Reply #26 on:** November 23, 2012, 06:23:50 AM »

Nice shooting Tim and thx for the link to Pete's thread.
I am collecting parts here still,dies arrived yesterday.
Going to the toy store today and pick up essentials,I am collecting brass firing Win grey box 80gr PSP ammo while getting to know the rifle.
First 24 cal so need brushes,bore mops all the trimmings.
One question:I have a B&L balfor 4X32 scope I plan on running for optics.What is the general thought on scope mounting
Bite the bullet now chop the hammer drill-tap for extension and use low rings?
Or go with the high rings to clear the hammer extension and put on cheek rest?
I guess that is two questions but all my bolt rifles scopes have been low ring mounted in the past, the lining up my eye behind high rings and cheek higher on the stock is totally new to me.RB

petemi · « **Reply #27 on:** November 23, 2012, 07:20:17 AM »

Patty and I each have 7mm-08 Superlights also. Both of these were factory fit by Brian. Both shoot MOA with 115 gr. Speer HPs over Varget. I wanted a heavier, tougher bullet for deer and decided to try the 140 gr. Privi Partizen Boat Tail (read "inexpensive") over 42.2 gr. Varget for 2570 fps. Forget it. I can't keep them inside a dinner plate at 200 yards. This has gotta tell me the Superlights are real fussy about their diet. I'm going to try the Sierra Gameking 140 gr. SBT to see what that'll do. It'll either tell me a 140 gr. BT won't work in the rifles with that load or the Priv is junk, which I doubt. I've read some good things about them. We'll see.

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:14:43 AM »

Quote from: Ruttinbuck on November 23, 2012, 06:23:50 AM

One question:I have a B&L balfor 4X32 scope I plan on running for optics.What is the general thought on scope mounting
Bite the bullet now chop the hammer drill-tap for extension and use low rings?
Or go with the high rings to clear the hammer extension and put on cheek rest?
I guess that is two questions but all my bolt rifles scopes have been low ring mounted in the past, the lining up my eye behind high rings and cheek higher on the stock is totally new to me.RB

Best option is to use a scope that's Handi friendly so little or no hammer modification is necessary, most fixed low power scopes will work in low or medium rings as is, for a variable power scope choosing a scope with a small power ring/ocular bell will simplify things greatly without needing much if any hammer changes or requiring higher rings.

Tim

Brian P. · « **Reply #29 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:51:50 AM »

A guy could make a barrel de-resonator from a brain tanned deer scrotum filled with sand. You could attach it to the barrel with leather cord and then make it tight by wetting it and drying it over high heat; maybe use some pine tar for a little insurance against slipping. That would look TOUGH!