Author Topic: Which 22-250 to get (Read 6703 times)

warf73 · « **Reply #60 on:** August 01, 2005, 08:55:06 PM »

Seems to me this subject matter got a little off topic.

The 22-250 has been around for a long time and has made a name for it self.

The 204 being the new kid on the block hasnt.

Just because one has made a name for itself doesnt make the other inferior. Give it time and it might get a name who knows.

But the mud slinging is uncalled for; we are grown men with very good input and info. We can all agree to disagree on this subject of the 204 vs. 22-250.

I've kill allot of critters with a 22-250, and have smoked a barrel in 22-250 so it can be done (took little over 3500 rounds).

Now that I'm a little older (not much wiser) I let the barrel cool down more and not let them get as hot.

I've killed allot of Pdogs and a few yoties with my 204. I use 40's exclusively as I wanted the best energy/wind resistance avaible in this caliber.

I can say this on the topic of the 204vs 22-250. The 204 is SUPRIOR to the 22-250 with a non custom (I'm talking factor weights) rifle. You can see the impacts (Pdog vapor) from 35yards-400yards +.

I never saw many impacts with the 22-250 with the 204 that put a whole new aspect of a Pdog shooting.

JMO

Warf

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #61 on:** August 02, 2005, 02:49:07 AM »

warf, I agree.........the topic was which 22-250 to get ?

I would look at a Savage for the $400.00-$500.00 range, A Tikka T3 in the $600-$700.00 range, and a Sako or Cooper for $1000.00 or over.

The Tikka which has Sako barrels,fiberglass stock,great action & trigger and drives tacks out of the box, is the best for the money in my oppinion.

If you want one action with interchangeable barrels look into Thompson Center Encore and the new one they have........2 ?

Others like the Remington VS and Ruger Target.

BTW- "3500 rounds to smoke a 22-250 barrel" ain't bad in my oppinion. As you said letting the barrel cool........goes a long way and may have taken it further. Also I feel a molly system in a hot rod will extend the barrel life. I don't see the 4000 fps .204 barrel going much further than the other hot rods. If they do great ! Maybe they are learning something. Personally I would run a molly system in a .204 for sure if they have them yet.

Enjoy the outdoors.......

Buckskin · « **Reply #62 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:35:12 AM »

Call me what you like woodchucker (real mature), but as I said before if you read my ALL of my posts on this topic you would realize that I concede that the 22-250 can throw a bigger stone. Yes thats nice, yet not really needed in a varmint rifle, especially for pdogs and chucks. As warf said, its nice to be able to watch your shot hit target.
And if you look back, the author of this topic inquired about the 204. So it was officially ok'ed that we talk about other calibers.

By the way, how many of those 1000 yards shooters are using a 22-250 anyway. I thought we were taking about varmint rifles here. Anyway back on track...

Basically all I have said is that the 204 beats the 22-250 in every aspect when shooting the same bullet. Even you can't disagree with that fact. I'm not sure why you get so upset about that statement. And as you can see some of us can shoot a 40 grain bullet ( and I will be soon). And that 204 40gr drops 6" less than your 55gr at 500 yards. Yeah you give up 28 ft.lb but I can live with that. As far at that goes, my 32 grainer drops 5" less than your 55 and still has plenty of whomp to kill a lil' old chuck.

Here a couple paragraphs of an article from Gun Magazine that may be informative to you:

"The new .204 Ruger is a varmint shooter's dream cartridge. It shoots flatter and resists wind drift better than the .22-250 Rem., better even than the mighty .220 Swift. It does so with a third less powder, meaning longer barrel life, less cost, lower recoil and milder report.The .204 Ruger combines the laser-like trajectory and resistance to wind drift of the Swift with the milder report, lower recoil and longer barrel life of the .223. Now that's a worthwhile concept.

For thirty years my Ruger 77V in .220 Swift with Weaver K10 scope has been my number one hotshot, flat-shooting varmint rifle. I first used 55 gr. bullets loaded to 3,800 fps, and more recently, as 40 gr. bullets became readily available, I loaded them to 4,300 fps. Trajectory charts show the .204 Ruger shoots as flat as the Swift and resists wind drift as well. And that, my friends, is running with the big dog. What the charts don't show is how much more pleasant the .204 is to shoot. Report is noticeably milder, and recoil is so light the sight picture barely moves, allowing the shooter to see the bullet strike."

Tried to find out who I was actually dealing with but your profile was empty :cry: . What the heck, offer still stands, Ace.

Idaho_Hick · « **Reply #63 on:** August 02, 2005, 02:42:25 PM »

22-250 vs. 204? No brainer, get a 22-250 so you can have it rebarreled to 250 savage! :lol: (thats what all short action rifles really want to be, after all)

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #64 on:** August 02, 2005, 05:45:11 PM »

Buckskin,

Foot pounds although the stanard for measuring energy or killing power is not a full proof formula. For one it does not factor in momentum.

Here you may find this interesting as I did http://www.xmission.com/~fractil/math/kp.html

Another interesting note you will see with this formula the .22 Mag comes out with more killing power that the popular new .17hmr (hummer) which many who now own and hunt both for woodchucks to yotes have been saying.

This formula "kinetic pulse" uses both. You will also notice that the V-Max type bullets help greatly, which does help with lighter grain bullets. Still the sledge hammer swung at 60 fps against concrete, by a person makes a bigger krater than the 150 grain bullet does at 3000 fps from a rifle.

Personally I felt 50 - 55 grains is kind of light at long distance.......say 400 -500 yards. Honestly the Ruger .204's are awesome hot rods. But a 40 grain just does not have the smack a 55 grain does at that distance. Lighter deadly rounds are made possable with better designs these days (ex. ballistic tips) but you still need grains. The 22-250, 220 Swift & 223 are more all-around varmint / predator distance rounds in my oppinion because of the grains they shoot and I like the long shot. Of cource the number one factor in killing power is accuracy........anyways

I don't see how a 40 grain can buck the wind better at distance than a 55........but, hey maybe I am wrong. I am sure it's close with the speed from the 40. But at 400-500 yards the 55 may be going faster.

BTW- Your long shot on the coyote .................nice shooting

tuck2 · « **Reply #65 on:** August 03, 2005, 02:54:59 AM »

A good varmint rifle that shoots 3/4 inch groups or less is more important than what caliber you get. Over the years I,v tried the 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, 22 Hornet ,222,223,22-250 Rems,220 Swift and 243 Win. for varmint hunting. Both rounds your looking at are good ,get a rifle ,test fire it .If it will shoot groups under 3/4 inch( may need a tune up) keep it,if not trade it off and try another rifle. The most accurate center fire rifles I have or had are a Sako, Browning,and Ruger which grouped under 1/2 inch. at 100 Yds. The last varmint rifle I purchased was a Ruger M 77 MK II VT Targrt Gray in the 204 Cal. W/a 6-18 scope .Sofare 1/2 inch groups at 100 Yds. are common with the 32 Gr.V-MAX bullets. Now,Good luck helps when purchasing any rifle .

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #66 on:** August 03, 2005, 03:19:55 AM »

Hey Buckskin,

I was curious on this ".204 has less wind drift than a 22-250" thing that it states in the articles you posted, so I ran the charts.

Hornady ammo the 32 grain has more drift than either the 50 or 55 grain 22-250. Between the 50 & 55 grain the 55 grain is better. As a reminder 95% of 22-250 shooters are using 55 grain, second 50.......some use 60 and higher if the twist is faster than 1-14.
The.204 Hornady 32 grain has a poor BC.

The 40 grain .204 Hornady has a much better drift because of a much better BC (.275 rather than .210) It in fact..............
does have less drift than the 55 grain 22-250. Because of a strange but none the less large improvement in BC over the .32

Why your posted writer so blandly and matter of fact ........wise wrote "the .204 has less wind drift than the 22-250" is beyond me. Maybe he was comparing 40 grain to 40 grain also which all I can think of is..........duh

Lets compare what they are shooting and what they are selling over the counter............not special order from tim-buck-too(40 grain 22-250........I have never even seen them behind a counter).

The question is will that caliber (.204) stabilize heavier bullets with it's 1-12 twist ? 1-12 is very fast for a .20 caliber So far my pal's .204 (which I shoot too BTW) is not as accurate with the 40 grains...........so what is the point of gaining drift ? Also I notice many .204 shooting approx. .75 at 100 from the bench or worst in my pals case he is about 1.0 My 22-250 will be at .5 easy (and that's with me shooting :-D a bench competitor would do better) .223 and .222 can do as well or many times better. Also take a look at the Bench Rest shoots for 300 Varmint Class Standings and you will see several 22-250's, several .223's and maybe..........maybe one .204 near the bottom. Let's not forget the 22-250 was used in Bench Rest (several events) and still has a following at 300. The other .22 calibers are common. Accuracy is obviously huge in varmint shooting. The .204 is sub moa but I am not sure it's up to snuff with some of the .22's including the 22-250. The 300 Varmint Bench Rest guy's have not jumped on it................yet.
Time will tell as they tweak it with ammo etc. But, it appears to be a fussy round.
BTW- As far as recoil and being able to see impact. From the .204's I have fired it still moves off target enough to not see impact (although less than the 22-250 which is not alot,..............it's not a .17 hmr) maybe my grip is lighter ? Noise........muzzle blast, honestly the very high pitch blast of the .204 bothers me much more than the load ka-boom of the 22-250. The .204 makes PLENTY of noise, it's right there with the 22-250 but higher pitch. Much loader than a .223...........in my ears.

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #67 on:** August 03, 2005, 03:50:41 AM »

Quote from: tuck2

A good varmint rifle that shoots 3/4 inch groups or less is more important than what caliber you get. Over the years I,v tried the 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, 22 Hornet ,222,223,22-250 Rems,220 Swift and 243 Win. for varmint hunting. Both rounds your looking at are good ,get a rifle ,test fire it .If it will shoot groups under 3/4 inch( may need a tune up) keep it,if not trade it off and try another rifle. The most accurate center fire rifles I have or had are a Sako, Browning,and Ruger which grouped under 1/2 inch. at 100 Yds. The last varmint rifle I purchased was a Ruger M 77 MK II VT Targrt Gray in the 204 Cal. W/a 6-18 scope .Sofare 1/2 inch groups at 100 Yds. are common with the 32 Gr.V-MAX bullets. Now,Good luck helps when purchasing any rifle .

Tuck, this below is very well said.

"Both rounds your looking at are good ,get a rifle ,test fire it .If it will shoot groups under 3/4 inch( may need a tune up) keep it,if not trade it off and try another rifle."
Tuck,
That Ruger M 77 VT Target is the one .204 that I consistently see at .5 / 100 yards or better. It is one fine rifle and if I was looking for a .204 that would be one of about 3 I would look at. Kind of makes sence to when you think about it's development. And I agree the goal for Varmint rifles is .5" at 100 not 1". It makes a big differance on your 3" target at 300-400 there is enough other variables]

Buckskin · « **Reply #68 on:** August 03, 2005, 04:58:15 AM »

I will give you one thing chucker, that 204 is a loud SOB. I can deal with it in one or two shot events, but the muffs go on when on the bench. Which everyone should do anyway. I enjoy being able to hear a deer moving though the woods yet.

Maybe the heavy barrel of the Encore is the reason I can see impact of the bullets. The 2 yotes I have shot were a pretty cool show to see at 16 power.

I was at Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday and saw a box of 40 vmax in 22-250. You want me to send you a box to try??

Being a true 4000fps gun, with such little recoil and very impressive down range velocity and in my opinion power for such a little pill is the reason I would take the 204 over the 22-250. But by all means you should shoot them and decide for yourself.

Look at all of the ballistics, shoot all the calibers and models you can get your hands on, and have fun doing it. Half of the fun of buying a new gun is the research and anticipation.

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #69 on:** August 03, 2005, 05:57:27 AM »

Bucky,
Ha,ha

"I was at Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday and saw a box of 40 vmax in 22-250. You want me to send you a box to try?? "

And there it sit's waiting for some poor sob to buy a new 22-250 and then buy several types of ammo to try. Only to find out that the 55-50 range is most accurate and the 40 (never even tried it or seen it) and 45's open up like a parachute past 100.

Then the 1/2 box of 40's collects cobb webbs on his bench untill one day he gives it to another new 22-250 buyer and says "here try these while your at it" and maybe we can put a few bucks on a shoot

.

Enjoy the outdoor's.............

BTW- For the reloaders etc. looking for more grains in a .204. I had read that Walt Berger said "a 50 grain would not stabalize in a 1-12 twist .204" I looked on their site and they have added a 50 grain .204 but, it's for a 1-9 twist. Every factory .204 I know of is 1-12. So it looks like you will never see the 50 grain mark in a factory .204 unless they change the twist(don't think so) My guess is 40 is it, that's why some have fine tuned it to 39, 37, etc. they backed off at 40.