45-70 reloading trouble

[mitchell]

well the trouble is i can't stop crunching cases!!!


i'm crunching them when i try to seat the bullet. and when i get the bullet in there without crunching half the time the bullet is off center and makes a dent in the side of the brass.

so what do i do?

[bajabill]

here is a topic on  this,
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=61989

and it may reference yet another topic on it    :lol:

You are not alone with this issue

[tanoose]

Mitch , are you using the expander die to open the case mouth ? and if you are make sure you are expanding enough or not too much

[STexhunter]

Agree with tanoose need to use the expander plug to open case mouth.  I've had the same problem with bullets tilting as you seat them.  I try to start the bullet as straight as I can before seating them, it helps but still a few that are tilted.

[MtJerry]

Yep - make sure the expander plug is opening the cases enough that you can get the base of the bullet in.  It should opnen it far enough to allow you to get the base of the bullet IN the case, NOT just sitting on it.

Another option is to use bevel base bullets.  Plain base bullets can be more troublesome.

I have crunched a few myself when I tried to seat the bullet and crimp in the same step.  DON'T do that!

I have also noticed that RCBS dies use the same expander plug as the 45ACP.  MAKE SURE you adjust it down far enough that it bells  the case for a .458dia. bullet instead of a .451dia.  Been there, done that.

[Longcruise]

I agree, it's undoubyedly not enough expansion of the case.  With the typical 45-70 die, the expansion is accomplished by the same die that slightly bells the case mouth.  You surely know whether or not you are belling the case mouth and if you are and you are still crunching, then you need a larger diameter expansion plug.  The one with your die set should be fine for jacketed bullets but if you are seating hard cast oversize lead bullets that could be the reason for needing a larger expander.

If you are using the expansion plug and if you are loading jacketed bullets, then the problem is probably the expansion die does not go deep enough or it may just not be the right diameter, as in defective.

[Mac11700]

I suggest losing the belling die that comes with the standard dies...I use a Lyman " M " die instead...I doesn't overwork the brass as much as the standard die...and allows easy entry to all bullets...and one other thing to do...when seating the bullets...run your ram up 1/2 way...then rotate the case 180 degrees...it helps keeping the bullet concentrict within the case...I've done it this way for a long time...and haven't lost a case since  I starting doing this...and there is no unsightly bulge on the side either.....and my accuracy has improved as well...

Mac

[GBO MGMT]

test

[mitchell]

well it turns out that i wasn't turning the expander die down enough . i'm not crunching cases any more but half the time i still get that big lump in the neck (or whatever its called) and i even do the go half way then turn the case 180 then go the rest like mac was saying and i still got the lump.  i might just have to buy the M die and get it over with .

[Deadeye47]

What kind of press do you have Mitchel? If it's a 'C'type press it may be sprung.... :roll: If it's an 'O' type.. is your shell holder fully seated on your ram..is there any wobble in it??.....just a few more variables to throw into the mix along with the above suggestions... :wink:

[JPH45]

Part of the problem is one of centering. There is enough tolerance in the threads of hte die and press tha the die can be misaligned. One solution is to raise put a case in the shell holder and raise the ram so that the case mouth contacts the expander button then turnthe die in to your stop nut holding the case against the die in this manner.

Another part of the problem is that the sizing die is reducing your case too much. The normal setup is to run the sizing die in till it contacts your shell holder, lower the ram, turn the die in anouther 1/4 turn or so and size away. (the 1/4 turn is to take the slack out of the threads) I would suggest backing off the sizing die until the case is sized enough to get good bullet tension and reenter your chamber freely. I was only sizing about 5/8" of the neck and had no trouble with chambering. Again there is the problem of the slop of the threads, the sizing die can be set up in a manner similar to the method I have already described. Won't get rid of all of it, but it will help.

This is mostly an asthetic problem anyway, it is encountered in most straight wall cases to some degree. Be sure as well that your nose punch on your seating die fits the bullet correctly, the better the fit, the les the runout.

[stuffit]

Mitch,
JPH45 had it down.  Our of curiosity, if you mentioned what kind of dies you are using, I didn't see it.  What are they?  My first .45-70 dies were/are Lee's and the standard expander plug that comes with the dies, simply does not expand the neck enough to comfortably seat a cast bullet without shaving.  And it does not bell it at all.  I called Lee, got a new (and identical) expander plug and it was no different.  Finally bought a separate "universal die" from Lee that does a credible job of giving me enough bevel.  One thing that no one has mentioned is "finesse" and I reckon you only get the "feel" of things after you've done it a while.  Most of the "case crushing" tracks I've made have been with small brass like the .22 hornet.  When you're adjusting your dies, pay close attention to how much force you are using.  If it seems too much, it likely is.  Stop and take another look at how you have things set up.  Usually you can see the problem.  Glad you got your difficulty solved.  .45-70 brass is not so common on ranges, and not free at Midway.  
 :wink:
stuffit

[warf73]

I had the same problem with 44mag brass.
But it was bulgeing all my brass when I seated bullets.

The sizer/expander die was too small.
Sent it back in to RCBS and got a new one.

Problem was solved.

Warf