Final Test Results with Black Mag 3

[Mark whiz]

Well, I finally got back to the range to do some more extensive testing with my can of BM3.

Overall, out of my 22" Knight USAK, I can say I am unimpressed.  

The stuff is VERY clean, but at least in my circumstances - that is the best compliment I can give it.

Testing a full range of sabots, conicals, and patched ball I found:

1. It takes 15gr more BM3 powder to equal the velocity the identical bullet gets with 777 powder. Dropping a load just 5gr below that mark drops the speed approx 100fps and about 3" on a target set at 75 yards.

2. My groups with BM3 are over double the size of my best groups with 777 at 75 yds.  The BEST group shot today with BM3 was 2.2 inches, with most of them between 3 and 4 inches - while my 777 loads would cut .85" groups with the same bullets.

3. Also I found that it did very wierd things to the powercheck cups on Powerbelt bullets.  Even though I lube the bullet posts and make sure the cups are loose on the bullets, on about 1/3 of my powerbelt shots the cups failed to disengage from the bullets - ripping huge holes in the target and really putting a whammy on accuracy.  And several of the cups I found after firing showed that the skirts were cut pretty badly and the center hole the post goes thru were expanded to over twice the size of the original hole.   I have had problems with the skirts not dropping off when trying them with 3fg 777, but I've never seen the cups damaged so much with 777, Pyro, or Clean Shot.

I to summarize my findngs, I think BM3 is pretty powerful, but shorter barrels like mine can't take advantage of it's burn rate unless you push the powder charge to levels that affect accuracy. So for now, 777 will remain my powder of choice for this rifle - I think I'll use the rest of my BM3 to teach my future stepson how to shoot...............the cleaner shooting will make it easier for him to get the hang of operating the rifle.

[NimrodRx]

I'm with ya Mark.  Keith is going to tell you that BM3 likes a longer bore.  That may be, but my Elite 28" didn't like it either.  

Cleaner - yes.

More accurate - not out of my rifle.

[Keith Lewis]

I'm with ya Mark.  Keith is going to tell you that BM3 likes a longer bore.  That may be, but my Elite 28" didn't like it either.  

Cleaner - yes.

More accurate - not out of my rifle.

Not going to bother since you already did it for me. Out of my Omega it cuts 7/8 inch center to center groups at 100 yards on a good day. I would be the first to say I cannot repeat that every time. It does shoot as well or better than 777 in my Omega and one heck of a lot less bother to deal with the crud ring of 777. It also killed my elk this year and I had to run a second quick shot as I thought I had not gotten a good first hit. (later found both were good lung shots) apparently the old cow was tough as she bolted into a full run which I managed the second shot in about 20seconds from the first. Never would have happened with 777 I would have still been running brushes and swabs as she left the area. Sorry to hear you are not getting the same performance I am. Like they say, "all muzzleloaders shoot different".

[NimrodRx]

"all muzzleloaders shoot different".

Truer words have never been spoken.  I don't know what it is Keith.  Maybe I'm just bitter.  After I saw how clean this stuff was, I just really wanted it to work for me.  I tried everything.  Just couldn't get decent groups.  

I know it's a long shot, but do you think the atmosphere has anything to do with it???  I know things are real dry there in AZ.  Nothing like here in MI.  

I appreciate the info. that both you and Mark have given all of us.  I think the bottom line is - shoot it and see.  If it works for you, congrats.  You will most likely never have a crud ring or frozen breech plug again.  If it doesn't, back to 777......    

[Cuz]

I am with ya Keith. Out of my Omega 50 cal I have about the same results, always under an inch. I use CCI 209 primers. did not change over like a lot of the fellas.
Great groups, clean barrel and am in my second can, just checking to see if the first can was a fluke. Nope, consistent and CLEAN. It took a lot of range time to use up that first can, but I luv to shoot my Omega and am looking forward to another hunting season, and this Saturday at the range.

I guess not all will be converted to BM3, but my Omega shots BM3 just great. Perhaps you fellas should get an Omega?? (that ought to stir the pot, these Knight fellas are a bit touchy)

Cuz

[Mark whiz]

Cuz,

Can't say that I'm "Brand Sensitive". In fact, other than Knight's "beginner" models like mine, I find them over priced for what  you get.  They ARE good pieces, but not at the suggested prices.

I eyeballed the Omegas REAL close when they 1st came out and thought long & hard about getting one.  But with my meager income, I just can't justify the expense as long as my Knight is cutting the same holes with the right loads as it has done for the past 4 years.

Besides, I'm saving my pennies to build myself a flinter.   :wink:

[NimrodRx]

Same here.  Fact is, I wanted more than anything to make BM3 work for me.  One, it is impressively clean.  Two, my buddies gave me a lot of ribbing about spending so much on powder :evil:

One of them just picked up an Omega.  I gave him the rest of my BM3.  I hope it works for him.  I'll let ya know.

[Keith Lewis]

[
I guess not all will be converted to BM3, but my Omega shots BM3 just great. Perhaps you fellas should get an Omega?? (that ought to stir the pot, these Knight fellas are a bit touchy)

Cuz[/quote]

I have had great results with the Omega so far. I have only shot 295gr. and up bullets as I only hunt elk. So far anything I set on top of Black Mag'3 with that rifle shoots just great. I have shot a little with my .54 T/C Hawken and the results so far are not as impressive. The jury is still out on that one. I have a GM drop in slow twist PRB .50 barrel for the Hawken also but have not shot it yet as it has been recalled so looks like a couple of weeks minimum before I can try that one. I am hoping I can get good results with the PRB and Black Mag'3. I have a fair amount of Goex ffg black powder and could resort to that for the Hawken. I suspect it would shoot just fine except for the corrosive residue which in the Hawken is really not much of a problem. I like the super clean Black Mag'3 for my hunting rifle (.50 stainless Omega). So far it seems the Omega and Black Mag'3 are made for each other. I know one of the Magkor guys shoots a Knight and I am trying to make contact with him to see if there is anything I can pass on for the Knight owners. Sure wouldn't bad mouth the Knights they are impressive with most loads from what I have seen. As far as the atmosphere there may be something there. I think the 777 crud ring is worse in very dry climates as I can not shoot the stuff at all in my Omega here (Arizona). The crud ring is so severe I have to use a brass brush after one shot to load a second one. Magkor is in Florida however and I don't think that is very dry.

[Mark whiz]

I can attest to the fact that Florida SURE ain't a dry place.  :eek:

[Redhawk1]

Mark whiz, thank you very much for all the information.
It just goes to show, what works for one guy, does not necessarily work for others. That is why you need to work up loads on your own.  

[DannoBoone]

" I think the 777 crud ring is worse in very dry climates as I can not shoot the stuff at all in my Omega here (Arizona). The crud ring is so severe I have to use a brass brush after one shot to load a second one. Magkor is in Florida however and I don't think that is very dry."

Here in Iowa, we have just as humid days as Florida, mixed with just as
dry days as Arizona..............the crud ring perserveres in both my factory
and custom barrels, either way, to the point of needing the brass brush.
It's even bad for me with the .25APC conversion. But for so long as the
sales of 777 remain strong, the dreaded "crud ring" will keep some of us
looking for something else.

[Keith Lewis]

I agree the .25ACP with small rifle Winchester primers makes the crud ring about 80% better. I still cannot shoot a second shot without a swab between shots so as long as I get good results with Black Mag'3 I will continue with it. I tried some of the Goex Pinnacle in fffg and on a limited trial was not impressed. I found it more dirty than Clean Shot. I need to shoot a lot more to be sure what merit it has.

[GLC]

How many grains of BM3 and what bullets/sabots are you guys loading in your Omega to get it to shoot well?  

I've had a can of BM3 I've been working on with Hornady SST's and XTP using Harvester sabots and can't get anything resembling a group.  Scattered all over and 6"+ at 100 yards.

When I switch back to 777, right back to sub 2" nice round groups at 100 yards.  

I'll deal with the crud ring and swabbing.   I'm about to throw out what's left of my can of BM3.

I'm in Pennsylvania for what its worth.  Shot some 777 back in the cold dry of January/February and in the last few relatively warm humid days. I noticed no change in the amount of crud build up.

[Keith Lewis]

I was shooting 100gr. and then switched to 90gr. of BM3 with Hornady SST and Harvester short sabots. I got extremely good groups with the same sabot but a 300gr. Ranier cast bullet copper coated. I have not shot extensively with the Hornady bullets as they are more expensive but when I did shoot them they were in the 2" at 100 yard range for accuracy. One three shot group of the Ranier bullets was 5/8 inch center to center at 100 yards. 777 in my Omega requires multiple swabs and usually with a wire brush to get a second bullet loaded. Too much crap for me to deal with. I know some get good results with 777 but not me. Same goes for the BM3. My Omega loves the stuff. I have some Goex Pinnacle that I am not getting great results with as yet but have not shot much of it. By the way; I do not swab between shots with BM3 for three or four shots then a light swab to continue shooting.

[GLC]

Funny how the same rifles can be so different.  

Just today I shot Hornady 300 SST's in a short Harvester Sabot over 90 grains of BM3.  Groups were horrible.  6"+.  

I also tried to load several shots between swabbing.  1st shot fine in the clean barrel.  2nd shot tight but not too bad.  3rd shot, could not seat down all the way.  I had to tap the bullet and sabot down gently with a mallet to get it to the powder.  Enough of that nonsense........

With 777, I do swab between every shot using a patch damp with a solution of water and dishwashing soap.  Cleans the crud right out and loads easy, probably due to the residual soap left behind.  This works well for me.  Accuracy is very good with SST's, either 250's or 300's under two 50 grain pellets of 777.  

Thanks and good shooting.