Question on an old herters press for swaging

[JBMauser]

I am looking at a rather strong looking  Herter's "Super Model 81" press and some used herters dies.  I will most likely not apply a jacket but swag them raw to paper patch.  I know it kind of looks like a swag -o- matic.  but I could just as easily buy the new lee cast iron monster with it's 1 in. plus ram.  Any comments, I think I know the answer...  JB

[talon]

JB, It would probably work if you absolutely assure you used only pure ( BNh5) lead. The model 81 is gray iron I believe, and it's linkages are not designed for swaging so there will be a lot of effort on your part, especially if you are working .44cal and above. Just remember that when you are applying muscle power of 10#, that press, with its multiplier linkage, is being stressed much much higher. The ram-shell holder connection, the link pins, or even the press body could bend or break. Reloading presses just aren't built to swage: you need steel, heavy duty high ratio camming action over a very small distance, and very sturdy linkages. Even the first series Corbin swaging presses, which were lots better than the then existing reloading presses, were of gray iron, and some broke even when used within design limits. Even a smiggen of impurity in the lead will probably cause the hardness to increase, and a BNh8 will definitely cause immediate problems. (Wheelweights are about BNh12). And I wouldn't even consider a full jacket on a bullet over .35 caliber with the model 81. Gas checks or 1/2 jackets may be OK thou.

[JBMauser]

Thank you for such a clear answer.  I admit that I was considering the mass of the press as an indication of stiffness not the strength of the materal let alone the linkage which of course would be the weak point.  I also did not appreciate the large cal. factor which would be my desired range of operation.  well done, JB

[bob allen]

Since this popped up I have a question Also.Some years back I bought a box of Herters stuff from an estate.I don't remember the model of the press only that it held 2 dies.With it were many dies amoung which 1 was a swage die in .44 SWC,the interesting part was it had what I assume are lube grooves cut parallel to the leanth.SO I made up a bunch from 200 to 300 grains pan lubed them and shot em in a D.Wesson revolver.It works great and I still use it.The die has no name on it no calibre markings only some knurling.ANY clues as to who produced this die??
                                                                              B.A.

[sixgun_symphony]

The die has no name on it no calibre markings only some knurling. ANY clues as to who produced this die??

 How about posting a picture of the die and a finished bullet.

[Bigbore fun]

Hi, JB.

The Herter's No. 81 is SXS like a double barrel shotgun.  It is also liken two No. 3 Herter's presses joined together.  No difference in the linkage system as they are the same.

The linkage on this press is double if I remember correctly.   therefore, to achieave swaging status with it it will have to be aultered a bit on linkage bars that connect the handle to the ram piston.

This linkage bar has two link pin holes on each end, select one end and cut off 1/2 inch of the bar.   You will then need to drill another pin hole the same exact size the link pin is.

What this does is shorten the ram's piston stroke to being able to reach the swaging die, thus allowing you to swage different length bullets to be swaged and also allowing you to seat your swaging die deeper into press's threads.   Beleve me, this is really necessary if you expect your Herter's to be able to top out its up-stroke  without going to far up into the die.

It also makes swaging a whole bunch easier as well...less pressure to swage a bullet with one of these old Herter's units.

I know whereof I speak, as I've converted my No.3 Herter's exactly as described...and it works a lot easier than before.  In fact, I use this old press a lot for hollow basing or hollow pointing my bullets.

Let me know if you have any trouble doing this, can make you a cardboard pattern of the link bar.


Jim

[iiranger]

No idea who made them but Geo. Herter designed them. He would "job lot" the work to whomever got the bid. And he was very, very proud of the idea... Easier to "swage" longintudinal grooves than try to add circular grooves later. Looks weird and, obviously, hasn't caught on, but he claimed loudly that it worked GREAT, but then if you have read any page of his cataloges... The fertilizer flowed BIG TIME... "model perfect" and then he would exceed himself with "model perfect II" ... ha, ha... I miss the old blow hard. Most of his products were excellent value, and the B.S. was most entertaining. Now if the service hadn't been so very, very pooooorrrr.... luck

[bob allen]

iiranger;
          I just found your answer after being off line for a while.Thanks for solving the mystery.
I'm not smart enough to get a picture posted of the die and a slug otherwise I would.
                                                                                                                      Bob Allen

[WILDCATT]

Herter presses were great for new loaders as the cost of the single press was $13.00 I still have my no 3 and the universal dies.they also made a swageing press and dies.the 1968 gun law killed them.I used their primers.it was a great company for fishing equipment.