Collectors raising the cost of mil surp guns get me thinking

[S.B.]

With collectors willing to pay exceptionally high prices for '03's and other quality military surplus guns and the high cost of American made hunting rifles, gets me to thinking about sporterizing some of the less than desirable ones. I've recently purchased a stripped and blued '03 receiver and A4 bolt and am going to build a .35 Whelen around this action. Does anyone else here do things like this? I also thought about building a larger bore sporter around a Mauser but, not sure what caliber this bolt and action can handle. Would like to see pics of anything that anyone on this site has sporterized and a little history on their projects?

[patm41]

nothing wrong with building a good shooter out of parts but please dont cut  up a nice origional gun to build one..
Pawn shops are full of cut up military rifles that were sportorized in the early 60's  you may shop around and find all the parts you need , and these guns are fairly cheap...

[S.B.]

Before you admonish me, I wish you'ld reread my post. It's a stripped and blue receiver. Where did you get the idea I was cutting up an original rifle? Please post some of the names, phone numbers, and addresses of the pawn shops you are talking about?

[HouseofCash]

nothing wrong with building a good shooter out of parts but please dont cut up a nice origional gun to build one..

He agreed with you. He was not down talking you, only stating that people that take mint 03s and cut them up are nuts. And they are nuts, its like, buy a rem. model 710 and go hunting with that.

Any-how, go to www.google.com and look for what you are talking about. You will fine 1000s of sites on line to buy stuff from and help you out with info.

              Dave.

[1911crazy]

The only thing that raises the cost of surplus military guns is the supply running out and the demand going up for them.  But on the other hand the american stuff is way over priced.  All this stuff did fight in the same war didn't they?  There is more history behind some of the other military guns too be they stay affordable and why i don't know.  If we look at one of the greatest battles ever fought like the "rifles of the white death" were 32 finn's with M39's went up against 4,000 russians  and the russians retreated with 3,600 left with 5 Finn's left alive.  You would think the 600meter++ shooting M39 would be worth a fortune with the history behind it right??  Lets face it the Finn's were well trained marksman and we noted for making 600 meter shots.  This is when Hitler thought  that russia would be a push over but yet the german mausers are worth more than the russian mosins? Go figure there is all the same history behind all of the WW2 weapons.                                                           BigBill

BTW;  The 98 mauser action is one of the strongest bolt actions ever made and they will make a very good platform for any sporter in just about any caliber.  There is different length bolts so if you going with a longer magnum caliber you want a longer bolt w/reciever.  I believe the yugo M48 is one of the shortest 98 bolts.  They do make longer trigger housings too with longer magazines too you only have to watch and match the securing screw distance.  There is everything out there for these builds no matter which caliber you pick standard or magnum.

I just built two sporters out of an 8mm mauser and a 7mm mauser mainly with parts and non valued guns that i gave life too and gave a good home to them too.  I think we can end up with a better shooter from a military sporter too. But on the other hand the cheaper new modern guns sure sound like they can sure shoot good for as little as $244.  My sporters came in well under $200 and more like $150 w/scopes.

[S.B.]

BigBill, how about some pics of the two you've done and a descrption of the work on them?

[S.B.]

Does anyone here know what model of Mauser would have an action, bolt and magazine long enough to build a .375 H&H on? Also, I have no experience with Mausers at all. do the bolt faces from a 8mm have to be opened up for the magnums?

[1911crazy]

Here's something else I was looking at too the mauser legend continues go to; http://www.mauserwaffen.de/index.php?id=27&lang=en

I'm not sure of the prices but they sure are purdy.   BigBill

[1911crazy]

Does anyone here know what model of Mauser would have an action, bolt and magazine long enough to build a .375 H&H on? Also, I have no experience with Mausers at all. do the bolt faces from a 8mm have to be opened up for the magnums?

I'm not sure if the 375H&H fits the 98 mauser but a quick look for a barrel at numrich gun parts would give an indication if they have a barrel for it there is someway to make it work.  

With my first sporter I bought a 1895 chilean mauser 7mm barreled action from Samco and a stock from Numrich.  All i did was to refinish the military stock and assemble it with a 3 post military style scope and with high see thru mounts.

My second sporter took more work since i purchased a 98k german mauser with a shotout barrel for $20.  I replaced the 8mm barrel with a used excellent conditioned barrel from Numrich gun parts for $37 I did the work myself.  The headspace passed the go gauge and the bolt wouldn't close on the no go gauge so the headspace was perfect with the used barrel.  Since this masuer had a straight bolt I turned down the bolt to clear the scope.  Again I mounted a military 3 post scope with high mounts.  I refinished the orginal german stock with 10 coats of tung oil.

I'll post my pics in the album here again.                           BigBill

[Racepres]

S.B. : Go here  http://p067.ezboard.com/fmilitaryfirearmrestorationcornerfrm1
If these guys haven't done it ... it probably can't be done... (pics Too)
I kind of dink around w/ my mausers... 2 are original 1 almost and 1 real nice (to me) 6mm-06 on a czech 98/22 (already sported so no I didn't wreck anything!!) Gonna do 2 or 3 more than probably be way old and just rest!!  LOL,, BTW I have pics of a couple ... but they are generally not as nice as ya see on the restoration board!!!  If ya wanna "do it yourself" then LMK there are a couple "pitfalls".... later .. Marty

[rockbilly]

:roll: I hate to admit it, but I have cut up and made sporters out of dozens of milsurps over the years.  I started back in the 50s with .303s, did some 98s, a couple of 03s, and a bunch of sweds.  I wouldn't do it today because a goog milsurp is bring as much or more that the sporter models.

If you need parts to build a sporting rifle go to SARCO, Inc they have both small and large ring receivers, several places offer barrels at a good price.  Getting the parts is not the end for the average person, they will need the help of a qualified smith to things such as headspace, maybe installing a barrel, etc.  All kinds of stocks are available (check Boyd's out of Ar.  they have some great prices.)  Even when you get the stock it will take some work to fit the action and barrel, finish, etc.  If you do not have the experience or ability to do a gun from a to z then it can be costly.

Bottom line, if you look around you can most likely find a better gun than  most home smiths can build at a much better price.  Look at some of the Husqvarnas in the SARCO web, for example.

Just my two cents worth.

[S.B.]

I've got a SMLE No4mk1 that a friend gave me. The barrel was cut to about 22". I've been trying to get all the grease out of the stock and forearms, not much success. Soaked them in mineral spirits seveal days. Am going to let them set in the sun, under a window pane glass, to see if this helps, this summer. I just hate to see a rifle sit and go to rust instead of being used, even if it's already had some butchering done to it.

[jh45gun]

Mauser actions have been lengthed by gunsmiths for the longer magnum cartridges so have Enfields that were that American 3006 versions. Model 17's.  The reason that US milsurps are so scarce is not sporterizing them as much as it is the gun grabbers and Gov programs that destroyed millions of these guns you can thank slick willie for a lot of them disapearing!  :twisted:  :twisted:  :evil:

[1911crazy]

At numrich they have mauser barrels up to 458win.mag and special reworked trigger housings with lengthened mag wells too.  I believe there are 6" long bolts in one of the standard mauser recievers too. At another site i don't remember which one it could be in the shotgun news they had a few different reworked mag wells/trigger guards and they gave the securing bolt distance too so they fit the recievers with different length bolts.  Like anything else its doable but it could get costly but the end result you built it yourself thats why i did mine.  I wanted to prove it could be done and cost under $200 even with a barrel change too.  I did it with no special tools and the headspace was right on the money. My only expense was the three headspace gauges "go", "no-go" and the "field gauge".   Since it passed the Field headspace gauge and it chambered a round perfectly I went ahead and purchased the no-go gauge and it passed it too.  Then i became more curious to see if it would pass the go headspace gauge so i purchased it and it did so the headspace was right on the money on my first barrel change but i did use a used barrel thats in new condition.  The new barrels come with shallow chambers so they can be finished reamed after assembly which can get costly buying chamber reamers or you can rent chamber reamers too on the net.  I never did this before but i figured it can't be that hard to do.  I have a machining and machine building background and i have built CNC machines with accuracy to the millionths so playing with thousands in the headspace is cake.  The barrel lockup and headspace is the most important thing. I look forward to doing another one and i hope to do chamber reaming next time too.  I have an FN49 8mm thats needs a new barrel next.  I have the new $29 barrel already.              BigBill

The tools i used were an 18" adjustable wrench,  18" pipe wrench, a large vise and a small propane torch.  You have to be very careful with heat because the metalurgy changes at as little as 400 degrees so don't let the reciever get too hot.  You can use temp sticks to check the temps when heating it so you don't overheat it to remove the stuck old barrel from the reciever.  Just a little heat will work when taking it out and installing it.

[S.B.]

BigBill, I've built a few rifles before, so I'm not quite a stranger to the headspacing and the proper use of the guages to do this, nor am I an expert. I too have worked in maching industry and worked in microns but never as close as 1/1,000,000,000th. I've got the barrel vise and action wrench but would have to buy the proper head . Probably have a good friend who has an up and running gunsmith shop(his business) install the barrel and headspace it while at the shop.
How did you get your new barrel on, with a pipe wrench, without marring it? Also, don't think I'd use any heat on something like this? Maybe a 3' cheater pipe on the handle of the action wrench.

[1911crazy]

I used a pipe wrench on the old barrel of course!!!!  While the reciever is clamped in the vise between oak wood I fabricated.  Then you clamp the barrel in the vise in the wood support clamped and spin the reciever on to it.  You have to heat the reciever just a tad to expand it because this is where most get into trouble and they twist the reciever trying to get the barrels off and on they do go on tight.  Its not that hard to do its not rocket science.  There's no gunsmiths here who would touch these military guns like the old timers did in the past so i was pushed to do it myself.   Being a welder too you can't go beyond 400 degrees too because metalurgy starts to change at 400 degreess you have to be careful.  I'd rather learn how to do it anyway rather than have someone screw it up for me like i have heard about other gunsmiths doing it to some of the guys on the net.  Its not hard to do.   Its your gun so take it to somebody and pay him. If your looking for info and you have a gunsmith who is going to do it just ask him?                 BigBill

[jh45gun]

There is probably more than one way to take off a barrel but If it was me a action wrench is not that expensive and it saves you from twisting the action. Which can happen easily if not carefull. Jim

[1911crazy]

jh45gun;  Its hard to tell you without you seeing it.  I have a very large vise that I fully capture the action in it.  The action wrenches only loc on a small part of the action but i loc in the whole action so it can't twist.  This is why most gunsmiths don't want to touch these guns because some of these barrels are really tight and locked up and you could twist the action if your not sure how to do it.  But if you study it you can figure a safe way to do it.  Since my used barrel was shotout and mic'ed .0245 and it was the worst mauser barrel i have ever seen. So it was shot so why not pipe wrench it off its a tomato stake anyway. It was frozen so a little heat not much and it turned with little effort you still have to becareful.  Now once its out you have to clean the threads and some of these threads can be a tad off pitch too between the different brands of barrels. You really need a tap and die to clean both up before reassembly. I secured the barrel in the jaws of the vise with oak so it was locked up also.  Then i heated the reciever just a little and spun it on till it bottomed on the barrel with an 18" wide jaw adjustable wrench that is the same width as the action wrench.  It went perfect and maybe i got lucky. Now you have to turn the rear site and front site to 12 oclock on the barrel so there lined up properly and your done. These are silver soldered in place so you have to heat these too just a little.  If you look at my pics i took off the front site and i didn't want to disturb the rear site so I just turned it and left it on.  There's no marks of any kind on my gun its perfect.  I just wanted to prove a cheap sporter can be built yet its a good one too.                                                         BigBill

I'm sure some gunsmiths hate to do these too and i can understand why now too.  Some have been under water for who knows how long and the barrels threads are rusted frozen.  I have seen some mausers I passed on to buy them too you have to be choosey too which victum you pick for your project.  I took a POS worthless 98k mauser and gave it new life.