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Offline MtJerry

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What the ... cratered primers????
« on: May 20, 2005, 08:10:55 AM »
Will the change in receivers cause pressure signs if not headspaced correctly?  IE - cratered primers

I went to the range today with my sweetheart load - 24.5gr. of IMR 4895 and a Hornady SP and the first two rounds crated the primer.  I worked hard on this load last summer and was getting consistent sub-.400 groups with it.  When I got the load worked out, I loaded the rest of the powder and bullets I had.

I don't want to pull 500 ROUNDS of .223!!!

The only change in my setup is I swapped the receiver with one I purchased this winter.  (It had a MUCH better trigger that the one that came with it).  My only answer to the problem (unless the powder went bad) is that the receiver is incorrectly headspaced.  It locks up nice and tight, no slop, wiggle ... however, I have not done the feeler-gauge measurements.
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Offline Mac11700

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2005, 08:44:59 AM »
Quote
Will the change in receivers cause pressure signs if not headspaced correctly? IE - cratered primers


A simple answer is ...yes/maybe...

If one reciever is allowing the cratering of the  primers...and the other isn't...then there are a number of reasons this could happen...headspace could be  one of them..

Is the temp the same when testing the loads...is it a max load to begin with..?...if all the variables are the same...then you could try placing a small shim in the hinge pin area...and try it again...to see if this is the cause before pulling all the bullets...since the barrel is the same...and it's just a different receiver...I would suspect that's the culprit...provided everthing else is the same...

One thing you might want to do...is to pull a few bullets anyways and measure the powder charge...and if you didn't change lots of powder and primers while you were loading...you could have inadvertantly increased the powder charge...


Better to be safe than sorry.......

Mac
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Offline MSP Ret

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2005, 09:23:21 AM »
I know this may sound to simple an answer to the problem, but rather than pulling the bullerts from 500 loaded rounds how about using the original receiver? You could do a trigger job, or have one done, if it's really neccessary....<><.... :?
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Offline Deadeye47

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2005, 09:24:21 AM »
Everything that mac said ..but...try the load with the other receiver first... :roll: If no change then proceed with the other suggestions....I have trouble metering the 4895 myself...bet it jumped up a little on ya...
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Offline Deadeye47

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2005, 09:25:56 AM »
:-D MSP_Ret beat me again by one measly minute... :-D  :-D
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Offline tanoose

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2005, 09:31:12 AM »
Jerry before you pull any loads, check the firing pin . Page 53 of the #13 speer manual shows a picture of a pierced primer and they state that most pierced primers  are caused by rough or improperly shaped firing pins. Check the tip for a small burr or it may be split.
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Offline quickdtoo

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2005, 10:03:40 AM »
I don't know the cause, but I'll offer this experience with cratered and perforated primers...The first time out with my new to me at the time 357max barrel and Topper frame, it cratered and/or perforated the primers with factory Dan Wesson ammo. I swapped frames to an SB2 Ultra frame I had with me at the range and all was well. The only thing I could figure is the Topper frame has a firing pin that may be a tad too long and the pistol primers are built light enough that the combo caused a problem.
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Offline MtJerry

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2005, 11:13:19 AM »
Great suggestions gents ... got some tinkerin' to do this afternoon.

I am gonna start with swapping the receiver back to the original.. Give that a try first.

If that works then I will take a look at the firing pin on the new receiver and see if that has anything to do with it.

The new receiver has been fired with my .270 barrel on it and I did not see any signs of pressure, or primer deformations.  But I'll look at it anyway.  I really want to use this receiver with the .223, the trigger is REALLY nice!
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Offline jeff223

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2005, 11:45:48 AM »
one thing about these handi rifles they will show signs of hot loads when they arnt.now im not saying you dont have a problem there but when you think about how the handi rifle action works that will tell you something.when you pull the trigger you must hold or follow through with the trigger pull to make the gun fire.when you release your finger from the trigger the fireing pin retracts back inside the frame.the fireing pin stays on the primer alot longer than say a bolt action.with the fireing pin staying on the primer until you release your finger this lets the primer flow around the fireing pin and makes it look just like a cratered primer.my 223 and my sons show the same signs as yours and the two of us are shooting loads at MAX.i have shot about 3000 rounds through my rifle without one pierced primer and my sons rifle is still pretty much still a virgin with about 400 to 500 rounds through it.

you might want to try a few rounds of factory ammo im your rifle just to see if it shows the same signs.you might want to change brands of primers just to see what that shows.

im shooting CCI small rifle primers in my rifles

if you ever pierce a primer then it will be time for a trip to the gun smith or a trip back to the factory for a fix

good luck
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Offline MtJerry

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2005, 04:32:24 PM »
All fixed now ... swapped back to the original receiver, no craters or pierced primers.

I gotta get me a feeler gage.  I really thought it was locking up just fine ...
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Offline Mac11700

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2005, 05:08:12 AM »
This is a good thing :D

Mac
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Offline MSP Ret

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2005, 05:10:28 AM »
:grin: , all's well that ends well....<><.... :grin:
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Offline Deadeye47

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2005, 05:14:01 AM »
Good deal! 8)
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Offline Mac11700

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2005, 07:58:18 AM »
I'd still try shimming the barrel on the other reciever and see if that helps...it wouldn't hurt anything to try...and it's always nice to be able to switch them around...

Mac
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Offline Longcruise

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What the ... cratered primers????
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2005, 05:44:39 PM »
Check the size of the firing pin hole in the receiver face.  I had a TC .223 that would show cratered primers with even mild loads because of the size of the hole.  It allowed the primer metal to flow back around the firing pin.

They say CCI primers are harder than the others, so that might help.  Also, there are primers out there for semiauto rifles that are made tougher to help prevent slam fires, but don't know if they are available in small rifle.
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