Author Topic: Price/Round...Reload vs Box Ammo ? (Read 1589 times)

Cookiemann · « **on:** May 22, 2005, 03:54:39 AM »

Just curious, what's the savings in reloading 45-70 ammo. You don't all have to answer, but I know you reloaders have figured it out. Just curious. Someone told me yesterday that if you don't fire thousands of rounds that it really isn't worth the effort or time to reload your own. I didn't agree, but I don't have any numbers to back it up. HELP!

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2005, 04:18:35 AM »

45/70

Primer $3/100
Powder $20/lb 7000 grains 28 gr/round = 250 rounds or $8/100
Leads 350gr hornady 15.50/50 $31/100

$42/ 100 or
$8.4 per box of 20

does not include brass reusable commodity or time but what else do you have to do :-D . Lots!!

Some prices may differ due to location ordering & shipping etc but I would say not much more than 15% You can load cast or 300 gr a little cheaper or bulk if you can find them

Besides its rounds the sport out when you roll your own

Woodbutcher · « **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2005, 04:32:35 AM »

Dear Cookieman:
Never argue with people that make such statements. Tell them that you don't save money by reloading, but that you get to shoot more. Then just let nature take its course! Woodbutcher

Cookiemann · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2005, 05:14:19 AM »

I hear that!! Wasn't about to get in a pissin' match. I knew I was right, but, ahh heck, he'll figure it out. You're right about rounding out the sport, too. Besides, it's challenging. I haven't even started loading yet and I have learned lots already. Thanks guys.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2005, 05:24:35 AM »

Quote from: Woodbutcher

Dear Cookieman:
Never argue with people that make such statements. Tell them that you don't save money by reloading, but that you get to shoot more. Then just let nature take its course! Woodbutcher

That's not entirely true...take for example my hunting load for the 45-70...I use Remington nickle brass @26.00 per 100...Remington 9-1/2 primers...@$1.99 per 100...Nosler 300 grain Partitions @ $70.98 per 100...and 55 grains of H4198...which gives 127 loads per pound...I average 10 reloads on the brass...and every 4th time I reload them..my powder is free from amortorizing the cost...so...over 8 reloads and so is my brass for 9 reloads..so..not counting taxes or shipping...my reloads are costing me roughly $.89 each..on 1000..and if you bought factory at $35 a box...the cost would be $1.75 each.. or $1750.per thousand. so I'm saving significantly on these loads...now...if you want a premium cast load...that would be using a Cast Performance 420 grain WLNGC...to reload 1000 of them cost me about $.39 each...to buy this round at my velocity loaded from Connely...would cost $1.74 each....so.saying you can't save money and reload isn't exactly true......my cost to reload is approx...$386 per 1000 on this load...give or take a few cents...as compared to $1743.50 for the 1000 buying them

Reloading is definatly cheaper than buying premium ammo...and that's the point...at least for me...do I shoot more...sometimes...but even if I am...I'm still saving money on what I would have to spend to get the comperable factory load I'm reloading...and the longer you reload...your cost will come down once your equipment is paid for...if your figuring that cost in as well...Just look at it this way...if your spending $35 a box for your ammo like I would have to...how many boxes will it take to equal the cost of a good reloading set up...and since I only use 2 types of ammo for the 45-70. the ones I mentioned..the savings are there for me pretty durn quick...

Now ...as what other have said before...if you cast your own...the cost is even less...so the savings is more...you have to understand there are more than just one way to save money...and no matter how you look at it...it is still more economical to reload in the end...

Mac

jason280 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2005, 05:29:18 AM »

First, you'll have to shoot a lot before you actually save any money reloading. Initial start up fees can be quite expensive, and will take quite some time to recover. I was thinking about this same thing last night while loading for my .45-70 Handi. But, reloading isn't about saving money. Like its said above, it rounds out the sport. I take great pride in shooting my own loads, as does anyone else who reloads.

Datil · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2005, 07:20:01 AM »

Not only cost saving over the years, but you can tweek your loads for what rifle likes, or what you are useing it for. Just my 2 cents
Datil

wudjalike2no · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2005, 07:36:40 AM »

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

this may help

tallyho · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2005, 07:57:57 AM »

Great Topic Cookieman :agree:

I was thinkin' along a slightly different line re the 'cost' of reloading... in fact the 'cost' of much of what we, on this forum do.

How long do you have to "work" to earn the money to spend on store bought ammo, or reloading equipment/supplies, guns - or anything for that matter? And do you like your "work"? Some do, some don't.

Over the years I have spent a lot of time with guns, tinkering and reloading etc when I might have been "working" (a framework my ex-wife had) but I made a choice to spend some time doing stuff that I loved and enjoyed and wasn't (by my definition, or hers) "work".

And yes, I believe I saved money by reloading. I shot more because I reloaded and the more I shot, the more money I saved... at least that is how I rationialized it at the time.

However the truth is I would not have shot more if I had only used "store bought" ammo. There were times I simply could not justify the cost. Had some of those tough economic times, been just a little tougher, lasted a little longer, I may even have given up shooting!

So upon reflection, shooting only "store bought" would, overall in my life, probably have saved me money because I would have been shooting LESS or (shudder) given it up alltogether. :eek:

To me that is another way of considering the"cost"!

Looking back over my own life span, there is a chance that by NOT reloading, it could have cost me big-time! In enjoyment, in challenge, in satisfaction, in re-creation, in just plain FUN!

I might have spend less money, but what would it really have cost me to give up shooting and all the associated activities?

I would suggest that most of y'all on this thread (more like this entire forum actually) are doing stuff that 'costs' money, time and effort, and are getting rewarded in non-material ways that are worth every dang bit of what you put into it! More in fact!

So if somebody tells ya that it ain't economically feasible to reload, or shoot holes in paper, or knock over tin cans, or chase wild turkeys, or snipe at PDs or... whatever... they may be absolutely right :agree: at least on paper!

But what does it have to do with YOU and YOUR LIFE?

Everyone of us makes our choices, and we get our results. If we like the results we get, we keep doin' what we do. If we don't like the results we get, we make different choices.... or at least that's the theory!

I like the results I get from shooting, tinkering, and reloading, so I'm gonna keep doin' it! :cb2: :yeah:

(By the way, one definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results!)

tallyho · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2005, 08:03:57 AM »

Yay Wouldja...

Thanks for that link to the calculator. I spend some time last week with a pencil and paper and my face all scrunched up trying to figure out how much per round it would cost to reload 38spl rounds for my wife to shoot in CAS!

I told her it would be as cheap as shootin' .22LR and I was dang close!

Cheers
Kerry

Woodbutcher · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2005, 09:12:20 AM »

I got my reloading stuff recently, my FIRST reloading stuff. FINALLY!!! I'll be getting more real soon. I'm very happy about that!
The initial outlay blew out the economics, for now, but I'll be able to shoot what I want more and more often.
Woodbutcher

Cookiemann · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2005, 09:57:11 AM »

DIDDO, thanks for the calculator link. You nailed it tallyho. I guess without even realizing it, I am making those choices. I haven't done any shooting in years. Then it was only for a short time. Its great to be excited about stuff, like a kid, again.
I have only invested in a Lee handloader for now, but, I am sure bigger and better things lie ahead.
I bought a couple boxes of PMC's at Cabelas today. I got them for $11.49 a box. I thought that was a good price. I need the brass and for the first few trips to the range it will be all about getting used to things and sighting and mechanics and so, if they don't shoot that well, I will not be too concerned. They are 405gr ,1250fps. I figured I would start by reloading with 300gr or 330gr and learn from there. STRICTLY BY THE BOOK.
Thanks for all the great input. It is helpful and I am learning from you all. Not always about ammo and Handis, either. Keep it coming.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2005, 10:10:11 AM »

Well, I might just as well jump in here too!!! I started reloading within the last year, started with just a 45-70 Lee Loader and an old Pacific beam scale, within a few months that escalated through a Lee anniversary kit, and a Lee Pacesetter 45-70 die set and then a Lee Classic cast press, a lyman trimmer, scale and 45-120 die set....then a bunch of different die sets to compliment every Handi caliber I own, and I just recently bought a Lyman 1200 DPSII digital powder system! So in answer to the question, can money be saved reloading?.....not yet, for me anyway....but it sure as heck is fun, and that has to have some value!! :wink:

tallyho · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2005, 10:46:26 AM »

Well, another .02 (we should all contribute our .02 and send it to Cookieman to buy more equipment) :wink:

I look at Quick's pics (notice how that rhymes :grin:) and see the kind of stuff I used to have (pre-divorce 6 yrs ago) and compare it to what I have now.

Now things are very simplified. I sit in my living room, in our little apartment with my current wife. There's a Lee Hand Press, a Lee Auto Prime and a set of Lee dippers and I show her how she's soon going be reloading all her own Cowboy loads (38spl). I also have 30/30 dies and a 45/70 Lee Loader for ong guns that she may be shooting later.

We (I mostly) reloaded 50 rounds on Thursday night for a shoot on Saturday. She was most impressed, and told a couple of our friends on Friday at dinner how we spent some time making our own ammo in our living room the day before!

I am going to get another Hand Press so we can set up a mini-assembly line between us and make it more efficient!

And let me add to what I said in a previous post and say: this is an absolutely grand addition to the value I personally get from shooting and reloading. My wife and I get to play at this together.

Cheers
Kerry

Longcruise · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2005, 12:46:52 PM »

I just calculated my 45-70 cost and based on 15 loads per case (easy for me since I shoot either bp or trapdorr to midrange loads) and I cast my own bullets at .38 cents per pound for lead (free if shooting wheel weights). So, here it is $2.65 per box of 20 :grin:

About 200 rounds will easily pay for a bunch of reloading gear.

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2005, 05:00:08 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Well, I might just as well jump in here too!!! I started reloading within the last year, started with just a 45-70 Lee Loader and an old Pacific beam scale, within a few months that escalated through a Lee anniversary kit, and a Lee Pacesetter 45-70 die set and then a Lee Classic cast press, a lyman trimmer, scale and 45-120 die set....then a bunch of different die sets to compliment every Handi caliber I own, and I just recently bought a Lyman 1200 DPSII digital powder system! So in answer to the question, can money be saved reloading?.....not yet, for me anyway....but it sure as heck is fun, and that has to have some value!! :wink:

:-D :-D :-D man! You got the fever bad Tim!!! :-D :-D :-D

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2005, 05:03:24 PM »

Ya think!!!!

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2005, 05:12:12 PM »

mac11700 loved the numbers, but just think in the time it took to figgir it out you could have loaded 40 rounds

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2005, 05:17:11 PM »

Welcome to GBO and to the NEF/H&R forum specifically, Stimpylu32, glad to have you aboard!!!

Bldr Bob · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2005, 05:01:40 AM »

OK, now you guys have just added fuel to my fire of wanting to reload. I have been thinking about getting into it for years and now that I am shooting more rifle rounds I think I will be buying some equipment soon. What would you guys recomend for a "starter set" to get going. Looking at all the equipment I guess I am just getting confused on what I need.

I thought about reloading shot shells, but since I mostly shoot trap loads it is hard to beat the 3-5 dollars a box I buy them for now. At work we figured it out with a guy who does reload and we weren't saving that much unless you shoot 28 ga or .410.

jgalar · « **Reply #20 on:** May 24, 2005, 05:36:19 AM »

I don't have a 45-70, but I cast and load for everything I have. The rounds cost between .06 and .15 per rifle round - A big savings. I don't worry so much about the cost of the equipment as it is just another fun hobby that supports my shooting/collecting hobby. You don't need to spend a fortune on reloading equipment, just get a starter set and pick up extra goodies when you have the need, want, and/or spare money.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 24, 2005, 07:09:50 AM »

Quote from: Bldr Bob

OK, now you guys have just added fuel to my fire of wanting to reload. I have been thinking about getting into it for years and now that I am shooting more rifle rounds I think I will be buying some equipment soon. What would you guys recomend for a "starter set" to get going. Looking at all the equipment I guess I am just getting confused on what I need.

I thought about reloading shot shells, but since I mostly shoot trap loads it is hard to beat the 3-5 dollars a box I buy them for now. At work we figured it out with a guy who does reload and we weren't saving that much unless you shoot 28 ga or .410.

You have several choices on which starter kits to purchase...you can spend as little as $12.00...or go whole hog with one of the deluxe pro-kits for around $400...it all depends really on how much you want to invest now...as compared to over the next few years...

The kits that are on the market right now vary in quality...and I would suggest going somewhere if possible and looking at them...Bass Pro Shop...Cabela's...Grafs & Sons...all have displays...you can put your hands on ...this will allow you to see & feel the differences between the various manufactures.

Getting started with all the proper equipment isn't cheap...and you will have a sizable investment by the time you are thru...so...get equipment that will last a lifetime...so you don't have to replace it down the road...but if you do...you will at least be able to sell it and recoup most of your money from it...

Redding...Hornady....RCBS....Lyman...all make quality equipment that will last you 30 plus years before having to replace it...and they all make reloading kits...each one has it's strenghts and weakness...each one will offer something a little different and from most on-line discount houses the prices are competative...

Once you start reloading...you will soon discover that you can produce loaded ammunition taylored to your guns...and so you most likely will want to reload for all of them...including your shotguns...as a lot of us already do...but then again you may not like reloading ......so you need to make sure you willing to commit to it before spending a lot of money...if you want to get into it cheaply...then Lee makes some pretty inexpensive equipment and you can get up and running with one of their anniversary kits...you'll still need different reloading manuals and your components...but your initial spending won't be as much...probably 1/2 the amount of the others...but you get what you pay for...and quality comes with a price...it's that way with any tool you buy...you can pickup a set of Challenger sockets and wrenches from Walmart...or you can buy a set of Craftsmans at Sears...or you can purchase a set of Snap-On thru their dealerships...you can see and feel the difference between all 3...same with reloading equipment...the choice comes down to how much your willing to spend to get what you need...and everyone has an opinion there...

If your going to load for more than one caliber..look closely at the Turret presses offerd by Lyman and Redding...I've owned and used a Lyman for 20+ years and just recently sold it to Like2hunt to get him up and running...but...it still is a great press to work with...and the new Redding is a bit better by allowing you to have 1 more die in the turret...not wanting a turret press yet...then have a look at the Hornady Lock & Load presses...they offer a quick easy way of taking you dies in and out of the press...that is far easier than all but one press on the market..it's what I use for now...but since aquiring more calibers...I will either go back to a Turret press...or move up to the Forster Co-Ax press..by Christmas..

Like I said before...Redding...Hornady...RCBS...And Lyman all offer start up kits...they are all pretty good...

Mac

ogo · « **Reply #22 on:** May 24, 2005, 07:29:13 AM »

Next time your stoped at a intersection look out on the road you may see a wheelweight , but I would be looking at a bullet lol****************ogo

bajabill · « **Reply #23 on:** May 24, 2005, 07:30:24 AM »

I would say an average cost per 20 rd box costs about 6 dollars to load. You may be able to drop that to 4 bucks for 22 caliber without getting to the point of scrounging or buying in huge bulk quantities. So 45/70 is a large savings, 30/06 is a much lower savings, 223 plinkers may not be worth the efforts unless you also throw in entertainment value. If you are the frequent customer of premium bullets, then loading is the way to go, if you shoot coreloks or powerpoints, load for the fun of it primarily.

Entertainment is priceless!!!

218Bee · « **Reply #24 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:07:51 PM »

Quote

Entertainment is priceless!!!

:grin:

You've got the warm & fuzzy, "I roll my own" factor when the tuned round outshoots your bud's premium factory stuff.

Like tying your own flies or building up your own arrows, reloading puts extra pride in shooting X's or downing game.

If it save a buck or two, great, but thats not my motivation.

Good luck,

Rick

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:25:59 PM »

Or like making your own spinners and catching a 26lb king or a 14lb steelhead on them!!!

tallyho · « **Reply #26 on:** May 24, 2005, 03:58:53 PM »

Quick, I used to live in British Columbia (Vancouver Island, and the Queen Charlotte Islands). After finishing tonight's dinner (BC Salmon) and going to the computer, I open up this forum and see your smiling face - and your salmon, and I am almost ready to put my guns and rods in the car and head north leaving everything else (except my wife)!!

Here's to YOU and all the salmon in the Pacific ocean! :toast:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.... or..... just be confused!? DANG!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :? :? :? :? :roll:

JPH45 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 24, 2005, 05:37:08 PM »

I cast my own and don't count any lead cost as I shoot 80% or so of it at least twice, I shoot surplus powders at a rate of about 10.00 per pound, my current loads are averageing 7.3 grains per shot, 1000 primers runs 20 bucks or thereabouts, so roughing it, 1000 rounds is $30.00 or 3.00 per hundred.

Some people try to make ya count your time, but if you are using time that would otherwise be unpaid, you can't count it, and if you do this for enjoyment, then you can't count that either, as it is time you would take out of paid time for this or similar purposes.

I don't know where the point of amortization is, I purchase, trade, giveaway and am given different things related to shooting and reloading, I really don't take a lot of time to count it.

In the end I doubt I have ever saved a penny reloading, I have just converted that money into more shooting. Look at it this way, I saw a price of $11 and change for a box of ammo in this thread. So round that to twelve bucks for 20 and 1000 rounds would cost me $600.00. Shooting at a cost of $30.00 per thousand is a significant saving and shooting something on the order of 3000 rounds per year would leave me with $500.00 to pay for my equipment, which really has cost less than $300.00, so in a year reloading has saved me at least $200.00, bought my equipment and given me the pleasure of shooting at least as often and as much as I want to. Reloading is a fine bargain if you ask me.

tomaldridge · « **Reply #28 on:** May 25, 2005, 04:31:28 AM »

Figures don't lie, but liars figure! In 30 years of reloading, I've made about 60,000 rounds. Not a lot compared to some, but enough to make a difference (especially in expensive stuff like my .41 Mag). AT $.01 per round, I've depreciated out $600 of equipment over 30 years, and that covers my entire shop (I don't count gifts or trades). Everything I have ever bought is still usable, and repair costs over those same 30 years have been under $20! Wish there were a car or a house with that kind of performance and that level of cost!

Robert · « **Reply #29 on:** May 25, 2005, 04:54:11 AM »

45-70 is a natural for throwing home-made dum-dums. I have an old freind here that always talks about the good-ol-days with his trapdoor at the range. He and his buddies used a hammer and punch with a block of wood to deprime and prime, measured with a scoop and seated a ball with his thumb. While one guy shoots, the others re-load.
Tim those are some really nice bright fish. Cissy is going to Texas for the weekend and I just got an invite to go Steelhead fishing. I haven't gone for years, have gotten lazy. It is just SO EASY to go pay 10 bucks for a fish at any of the little resevations along the Columbia near here.
Last year on classifieds, I bought what was advertised as old sinker molds. Turns out that they are infact 'Jigheads' They cast up pretty nice, and all I would have to do is tie some feathers on and hit the heads with a little nail polish. Pretty cool what you can make from scrap Wheel weights.