Author Topic: Black yote? (Read 1321 times)

HouseofCash · « **on:** May 27, 2005, 07:48:38 AM »

I was out hunting last night and while in the my dads field I noticed what thought might be a yote. Its ears was pointed up, about 40 pounds and it walked like a yote, kinda at a fast pace, but did not run. And, it walked with its tail down like a yote. But, it was all black?!?! Has anyone ever seen a black yote. I did not think they were black ever. I think it might have been a black dog or mix.

Any-how, I could have shot it, but I let it go. What do you all think?

Dave.

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2005, 09:54:36 AM »

It's not unknown for dogs and coyotes to breed. Could have been a cross breed(known as "Coydogs"). It could have also been a very dark colored coyote too. I have seen them from a very dark charcoal gray(black from a short distance) to a reddish color. An uncle of mine shot one years ago that was almost totally white(not an albino) that was only a few years old. You may have passed on a unusual trophy. Lawdog

MI VHNTR · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2005, 03:02:46 PM »

There are a few people reporting seeing black coyotes in parts of the country. So yes, you may have seen a black coyote.
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

Take a look here and you'll see that there are more than a few reports of black coyotes. MI VHNTR

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2005, 03:08:53 PM »

Yep ,same size and mannerisms but all black here in the Sierra.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2005, 06:12:09 PM »

Made a post of my own on this last November & is on page 1 of Outdoor Experiences.
This was the first time that I had seen one but I remembered a time when the black yote was worth a fifty dollar bill.
Had talked to a fur buyer though who claimed that the hair would slip due to breeding with domestic which made them worthless.
Would still make a great mount though.

varmit_master · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2005, 09:12:01 AM »

Hi when i was trapping i caught a black coyote the farmer i was trapping on said he had seen one and ended up trapping him on a dirt hole set walking up to him he kind look like a black dog BUT when i got close to him you could tell he was a coyote a good size one at that and i have seen 2 or 3 others ones at the fur house VM

oso45-70 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2005, 09:58:29 PM »

Houseofcash, Its not too uncommon to find a dark or blackish coyote. It seems like its a certian strain of coyotes. But I don't belive that dogs and coyotes cross, During all the years that i trapped i never cought any thing that i thought was a cross. I have asked the game and fish Biologist if such an event ever happened and they all said it was impossable that the genetic code was not compatable. on the other hand the wolf and dog will cross. and yes if you get a good dark pelt it will bring you more money.
good luck..............Joe..............

Lawdog · « **Reply #7 on:** June 01, 2005, 07:05:34 AM »

Quote from: oso45-70

Houseofcash, Its not too uncommon to find a dark or blackish coyote. It seems like its a certian strain of coyotes. But I don't belive that dogs and coyotes cross, During all the years that i trapped i never cought any thing that i thought was a cross. I have asked the game and fish Biologist if such an event ever happened and they all said it was impossable that the genetic code was not compatable. on the other hand the wolf and dog will cross. and yes if you get a good dark pelt it will bring you more money.
good luck..............Joe..............

Joe,

Coyotes breeding with domestic dogs happens all the time. In fact there a number of breeders that breed Coydogs. Just do a search of the net and their ads will show up. There is nothing genetic to keep them from breeding. I have killed a few of them in different states. Lawdog

oso45-70 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 01, 2005, 05:37:04 PM »

Lawdog

I hate to argue with you on this subject but, if you will go to any site that will give you the genetic make up of the two animals you will see that its impossable to do. I've heard this all my life and i have sent thousands of coyote pelts to the tanners and not one was a cross. I've cought dogs in my traps and i've cought coyotes in my traps plus all kinds of critters but no coydogs. The old trapper that gave me my start back in 1948 said that this was nothing but a bunch of fuddle. This man started trapping in the 1800 hundreds and had never cought a coydog. Get hold of a Biologist in your area and ask him if cross bredding between coyotes and dogs are possable. There are people that breed a slinky looking dog and call it a cross but it aint going to happen, My Son and my Brother and myself has sent an awfull lot of hides to the tanners and none of them have been any thing but coyote hides. Like i said i hate to argue with you on this, I respect your opinion on most subjects but this one i must whole heartedly disagree with you. I know you have been in the woods enough to have seen a coydog if there was any to see. Regards........Joe..........

Lawdog · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2005, 09:42:26 AM »

Joe,

By all means disagree. I have taken a couple of Coydogs to the local state game biologist and he confirms them as cross-breeds(Coydogs). Like I said you can even buy Coydogs from a number of breeders where its legal to do so(the law depends on which state you live in - the following(http://www.wolfdogalliance.org/legislation/statelaws.html) is the State Regulations from the National Wolfdog Alliance) which also refers to Coydogs. The following is just one of the places that breed Coydogs. http://www.coydog.us/coydog.html. I am sorry but they do exist in the wild where ever Coyotes/Wolfs and dogs come into contact. There are some that will say feral dogs and Coyotes wont run together but thats another misnomer. I have helped wipe out feral dog packs that had Coyotes running with them. Feral dogs will do more damage to sheep flocks than Coyotes/Wolfs do. Lawdog

oso45-70 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2005, 08:34:36 AM »

Lawdog.

As much as this pains me i guess i'll have to throw in the towel. Having only trapped in the south west all my life i wasn't privvy to the education that the willy coyote had developed a longing for dogs. I called the president of the NMTA whos opinion i value very much and he enlightend me on the fact that coyotes and dogs would cross or could cross. SO the biologist i consulted was full of splatter. I hate to get cought between what was said to me and what is fact. I still,,, with all the hides i have taken in the south west part of the country didn't find any thing that made me think that they were any thing but Coyotes. I guess theres nothing left to do but go back to the Remington verses Savage issue.Best Regards.........Joe......

mjbgalt · « **Reply #11 on:** June 03, 2005, 12:18:58 PM »

omg, someone on the internet actually admitted being wrong and was gentlemanly in doing so.

wheres the unnecessary fight and the name calling? What about people being banned? cmon you cant tell me we are THAT sophisticated here at GBO.

hmmm or is there ANOTHER way to go about it?

nice debate guys and i learned a few things.

-Matt

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2005, 09:07:13 AM »

Matt,

Now you know why Graybeard Outdoors is so popular with the real hunting/shooting crowd. :-D We come here to discuss and express viewpoints not to argue. :sniper: I imagine Joe and I(and most everyone here at Graybeard Outdoors) could sit by the fire and share many a tall cold one without spilling any blood. Lawdog
:toast:

dicaela · « **Reply #13 on:** June 07, 2005, 07:49:51 AM »

Thats one of the reasons I started hanging out at this site, everyone here is so civil and nice. Most websites usually involve a fight right after any disagreement. Sure is a nice change.

Buckskin · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2005, 10:31:10 AM »

I was just about ready to pull up a chair and watch you 2 duke it out.

We have a few black yotes running in our area. They have a great looking coat. And for some reason they are also bullet proof. Must be from crossing with a police dog.

deputydog12 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2005, 01:37:52 PM »

Yep we have em here in SE Ohio. Not only black but reddish, brown, silver, and a mixture of all. Also nice debate fellas. Thats why we all belong to this forum, can express out ideas, not be criticized for doing so, and learn a thing every now and then.

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2005, 01:46:24 PM »

Also there are "Wogs" Wolf/dog crosses

oso45-70 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2005, 02:49:40 PM »

Intrepidwizard

I know about the wolf/dog cross, Had a couple of the hard headed rascals. But sure didn't know about the Coy/Dog crass, But was steered in the right direction. Its embarrassing to be cought in the sunlite and think its dark out side........Joe......... :eek:

varmit_master · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2005, 07:55:34 AM »

Hi in the Fur Fish Game Mag they have a pic of a Red Coyote it is the first red one i seen VM

cal sibley · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2005, 01:18:24 PM »

I don't know about coyote, but I encountered a pack of wolves on the prowl a few years back, going after a moose I suspect as it was in Northern Ontario. Not many dogs that far north, or people for that matter.
I was fairly high on a cliff and saw a pack of seven, moving at a fairly good clip. Several were mostly black with brown on the underparts. All had various amounts of black in them. It came as quite a surprise as I had thought wolves were mostly gray. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Bim · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2005, 04:18:38 PM »

Gee, we had four yotes and a lab meet here in my neck o the woods and the yotes tried to eat it not make love to it. :?

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:04:46 PM »

Varmit_master
We do see alot of red colorization in the yotes here. The Bio people suggest a cross between the yote & red wolf near the turn of the century.
(Hence, the Eastern Coyote) Some of these are quite large & I have personally taken one that went over 50lbs.
We also have a smaller, meaner variety that the biologist suggest is a cross between the coyote & wild dogs (the dogs that were here when the Indians were). Some people have claimed to have been treed by them but it has been my experience that they will get out of my way quickly if I am detected.

Bim
I have heared alot of argument in your favor. These stories include torn up or missing dogs.
I have known of a case though where a farmer used a hammer to get two yotes off/away from his (in heat) collie.

Skeezix · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2005, 07:31:51 PM »

HouseofCash: If you want to see a full mount of a black coyote, hop onto I-65 south and run down to Decatur, Alabama, and find the Wiley's Outdoor Sports store on 6th Ave South (Hwy 31 S) and they have a nice one on display. And they have lots of stuff there for hunters, shooters, and outdoorsmen. Weapons, reloading stuff, clothes, gear, calls, etc. And on your way back to Music City, swing through Huntsville and go to Larry's Pistol and Pawn Shop on north Memorial Parkway, just north of the Oakwood Ave overpass. He guarantees at least 10,000 guns in stock any time you visit, and he usually has several thousand more than that. You can see and fondle everything from $50 el-cheapos to $50,000 custom builts. And he has an indoor range in the store. I'm not advertising for them, but they used to be a couple of my favorite hangouts.

Lawdog and Oso: Thanks for the gentlemanly debate. This is why I come to this board, mostly to read and learn and only occasionally to post.

BTW, on our farm on the Tennessee River in north Alabama, we used to kill more coydogs than pure coyotes. And they were MUCH more vicious and dangerous than pure coyotes. We had several of them checked by wildlife biologists, who verified they were, in fact, coydogs. Everyone in my family has been attacked at least once by coydogs.