Author Topic: S&W 500 for hunting? (Read 4804 times)

Questor · « **on:** February 18, 2003, 04:44:35 AM »

Has anyone seen any reviews of the new S&W? I would think the recoil must be horrendous. Given that the 454 and 480 are about all that's needed for really big game with a handgun, what niche does the 500 fill?

Jerry · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2003, 05:35:10 AM »

:grin: For S&W fans it's a big bore to compete with the 454 and 480!
It looks just like anyother S&W revolver, and probably has a better trigger out of the box than any Ruger.
For me it's great! I can't wait to get my hands on one. As far as power goes anything you can kill with a 454 or 480 has and will be killed with the 44. So where's the niche for them?
I just read an article, some democrat in ill. is trying to get the 500 S&W banned. He probably has stock in Ruger or Freedom Arms! ( Just kidding.)
Anyway I've held off getting a 454 or 480, hoping S&W would come out with one. Well they went a little further with their 500 and that's ok by me.
I will buy one, to be sure. I'm tired of hearing how much stronger Rugers and Freedom Arms are. It's a Smith & Wesson, that's niche enough for me!
Jerry

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:12:31 AM »

Oh how soon we forget who our enemies are! :roll:

The new management at S&W has done NOTHING to remove the agreement from their shoulders. Even with a willing White House who would almost assuredly agree to make it null and void IF ONLY S&W would petition them to do so.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T! No action has been taken on this agreement which in effect said S&W would unilaterally give away the Constitutional Rights of ALL US Citizens in return for favors to be granted it by the Klinton adminstration which were in violation of federal law. Soon the old owners found that the Klintion adminstration wasn't going to live up to any of its end of the bargain but was gonna hold S&W's feet to the fire on their part of it.

This caused the bankruptcy of S&W and the eventual sale to an American firm.

BUT the new owners have done NOTHING to have the agreement voided. The status of it is NOT DEAD as so many are assuming. It is merely on hold until the next democrap takes office at which time it will be resurrected like Phoenix from the fire and will once again be held over the heads of the new owners of S&W and of all gun owners across the country.

Folks if you forget this and kiss and make up with S&W and let them continue as is under the Bush administration you will see the error of your ways when next a democrap holds the office. This cannot be let stand. If the new owners do not care enough to ask the Bush administration for permanent relieve then S&W still MUST DIE!

Those who give aid and comfort to the enemy are themselves the enemy. Have you already forgotten that lesson from history? Must we repeat it because you have forgotten?

GB

willis5 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:50:16 AM »

S&W has always made nice guns, but give me a freaking break! They have no clue what they are doing to OUR RIGHTS!

I'm not, by ANY means, saying that Smith and Wesson guns are superior to any others, but I would rather have a gun that doesn't have a perfect triger pull or has an extra .5 inch group at 50 yards than support a company that is crapping on me and my rights as a gun owner.

Willis5

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2003, 07:41:22 AM »

I was just hoping for a straight answer to a straight question.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2003, 07:50:56 AM »

Yes Rudy I understand but I honestly have no straight answer for you.

First it will NOT be more powerful or even as powerful as the .454 Casull. Bigger isn't always better. No I've not seen any reviews and because of S&Ws status as traitor to all that America stands for I'll not read one even if I get a magazine with one.

What niche will it fill? Well the only one I can see is that folks who just can't own anything else and want a larger than .44 mag. round will fall all over themselves to get one. I honestly can see no other.

GB

willis5 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2003, 07:57:47 AM »

yeah, sorry to get off track. Just opinions.

I Agree with GB... I don's se eit being more powerfull, but we'll see. as for the kick. Is it ported? would you get it ported? if not, it won't be as loud, but it will make a significant difference in recoil.

Cheers

Willis5

Questor · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2003, 08:36:54 AM »

I think it's worth discussing on its own merits, regardless of who makes it. I saw the pictures and it looks to me like a one-upmanship of even the most powerful of the Linebaugh cartridges, although the guns made to shoot it don't seem to be competing with the Linebaugh guns in the size.

My own sentiments are that when a handgun starts to weigh close to five pounds, I may as well be carrying a rifle. That's where I part company with my colleagues who don't seem to mind Encores, 14" contenders and the like.

I like the 454 and 480 Ruger concept because it still fits into a reasonable sized handgun. The long barrelled Raging Bull is too big for my tastes, but I kinda like the 6 inch barrelled model. I don't care for the 8" S&W 629, but the 6" barrel is a big favorite of mine.

I think it'll be interesting to see what's done with the 500. I don't see any practical reason to down load it for anything. I think it's going to be in a niche where maximum loads only are used.

As far as sales go, I think they'll sell about like the early 44 magnums and the .50 Desert Eagle: Lots of guys want the biggest and most powerful. At under a grand, S&W is probably going to have a considerable backlog of work before they catch up with demand.

Anybody got an application for this new gun? Why do you find it attractive?

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2003, 08:40:20 AM »

I can't find anything about bullet weight. How heavy are the bullets and what's the velocity?

bigbore442001 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:19:44 AM »

I believe the figures that have been on the 'net are something like a 400 -440 grain bullets at 1625+ fps. I forgot the exact figures but that should do in just about anything.

Questor · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:24:04 AM »

I'll bet that cast 500 grainers will come out relatively quickly.

sjc1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:38:53 AM »

The Smith & Wesson 500 is suppose to have 2600 pounds of muzzle energy.

KN · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2003, 12:59:28 PM »

I'll wait for the Encore. KN

Questor · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2003, 02:03:02 AM »

KN:

Why the Encore? Isn't it a natural for a revolver? Wouldn't you prefer a flatter shooting cartridge for the Encore?

Rudy

ssmith_1187 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2003, 03:04:51 AM »

Questor,

According to Corbon's website they offer the following cartridges:

275 gr Barnes X; Velocity 1665 fps; Energy 1688 ft/lbs.
400 gr Hawk SP; Velocity 1675 fps; Energy 2500 ft/lbs.
440 gr HC Cast Performance; Velocity 1625 fps; Energy 2580 ft/lbs.

Hopes this helps.

Steve

foodaddy11 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2003, 03:34:49 AM »

:shock: if it is able to put out almost 2600lb/ft of energy, how then is it not as powerful as the ALMIGHTY CASSUL? by my limited powers of reckoning that is a rather formidable cartridge, regardless of who makes the gun.

Questor · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2003, 04:02:14 AM »

Realistically, what's the recoil going to be like with something like this? It's not that I'm a stranger to strong recoil in handguns, but I've met a few guys with fused hand bones, with the fusing attributable to years of shooting heavy recoiling handguns. This is not something I want for myself.

The potential of this gun for, say, cape buffalo and elephant is very interesting. Much more interesting that, say, a 375 JDJ, because it's a repeater instead of a single shot.

TopGun · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2003, 06:12:40 AM »

I am a BIG S&W fan and agree with most of what you say, BUT, Bill Ruger himself sold us out, or at least tried, with his stance and succumbing to the Brady bill, HI-cap mags etc, when he stated he didn't think there was a useful purpose for them! He annoyed me then, as much as S&W did for bowing to the K-Klan (Klintons). I think he was even on the side of favoring a semi-auto pistol ban? Just my thoughts. They're all in bed when they can be!

TopGun · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2003, 06:16:46 AM »

Go to the SSK website. JD Jones has a 1st test with his TC in this chambering. He kilt an Elk with it and ti's a good article.

willis5 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2003, 06:36:52 AM »

2600 + ft/lbs of energy? I thought the casull had a little kick. you are going to have to have a 10 pound revolver to compensate for the radius snapping recoil. Hey, you might as well buy a long gun at that weight.

p.s. My gun addiction is so fierce that I will probably buy a gun in this caliber in the future, but I won't shoot it much.

Questor · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2003, 07:03:39 AM »

I checked a ballistic calculator for recoil energy and found that the 440 grainer at 1625fps will give about 46 pounds of recoil. A 375 JDJ will give about 44 pounds of recoil. A 44 magnum with 240 grain bullets in a scoped revolver is about 15 pounds of recoil. A 30-06 with a 165 grain bullet in a 9 pound rifle is about 18 pounds of recoil.

willis5 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2003, 07:25:16 AM »

my wrist hurts already :cry:

:shock: That is a ton!!!!!

Jerry · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2003, 07:25:57 AM »

:-) I thought I gave a pretty straight forward reply to the original question of this post.
However I have sent an E-mail to S&W requesting the status of the agreements with Hud and Boston, and am awaiting a reply.
Personally I don't think the agreements were doable anyway. As TopGun stated Ruger sold us out also, and I see no one trying to put them out of business.
I've been an NRA member since 1968-Life member since 1979, Viet-Nam vet. U.S.M.C and have fought this fight as long or longer than most.
Our real goal I guess, is to keep the democraps out of office!
BTW GB, you bought a 454, was it just to have the biggest and badest? I think I'll try to get my 500 S&W before Bush leaves office.
Jerry :grin:

Hcliff · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2003, 11:25:01 AM »

Jerry let us know what S&W says with their response.

The cartridge is very intresting. It is basically a 500 Linebaugh Long. This is usually too much for most folks :cry: . It is just different enough to get the S&W label on it. People have seemed to love or hate the concept. Biggest problem is that the gun weighs so much :shock: . I was told that Bowen will not make a custom gun in the 500 Linebaugh Long because he won't test shoot them. :eek: The other thing with the gun is the ammo. If Cor Bon is the only maker that might happer it. (On a side note I spoke to Federal about the 480 Ruger and they said they have no plans for that :evil: If you have one let them know to build ammo) If you by a 500 S&W and the concept doesn't take off can you wildcat a case? Look at the 44 automag. Work but it can be done. But that i my concern about it. I am not sure weather or not I will like the new gun without handling it. Might be to heavy. But I will make that decision when I see it.

Hcliff

Zachary · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2003, 11:51:55 AM »

Why not just get the original 50 caliber cannon boomer - the .500 Linebaugh. I would think that ammo might be more expensive, and I think that only freedom arms makes these guns (or maybe also Linebaugh too) but these guns are top notch.

I must say, however, that I own two .454s and one 480.

For me, at least, the recoil from the 454 is just down right fierce. I can't imagine anything more powerful. I think that a lot of people's wrists would eventually have hairline fractures with anything more powerful than the 454.

Zachary

Jerry · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:44:44 PM »

:grin: Mountain Molds will have molds in March, or April
You can buy bullets from Cast Performance, if you don't cast.
I'am sure Starline will make brass.
Hey, people have already shot the thing, so it is shootable.
It's not a gun you're going to take to the range and shoot a hundred rounds a pop with, but neither is any of the other bigbores.
I'll have a set of Jordan Trooper stocks made for mine, I have them on all my .44's. (6)
Jerry

Jerry · « **Reply #26 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:00:11 PM »

In reply to the status of the Hud and Boston agreements, I received an e-mail requesting my phone #.
I will let you know what they say.
Jerry

Paul H · « **Reply #27 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:44:19 PM »

I concur that it is a gimmic gun and round, on par with the BFR 45-70's, and American Eagle 50 ae's. The other problem with this round is no other major handgun maker has a gun big enough to chamber the beast. No major ammo company will offer ammo for it, because the market isn't big enough.

The point of hunting with a handgun is to have something light and compact, which the new S&W decidely isn't. I've toted my 7 1/2" barreled SRH 480 in the field for several weeks last fall, and it is pushing the limits of what is a practicle gun in the field. Ain't no way I'd want something weighing 1/2 - 1 pound more

Recoil is also an issue. I've fired several 454's, 475's and 500's, though I've never lit off a Linebaugh long. I settled on the 480 because it is shootable, and launches a big heavy cast bullet at a reasonable speed, 400 gr @ 1200 fps or 460 gr @ 1050. I just don't seed the need for any more power then that on anything that the average guy will take with a handgun.

Sure there is alot of hype about the round, and sure lots of folks will just have to have that. That said, I venture the say that the folks using 454's, 480's, 475's and 500's aren't going to rush out and buy it for hunting. We already have sufficiently powerful rounds for the task at hand, and in guns that are practicle to toat in the field.

Now, put that bad boy in a lever gun, and then you'll have something new, 440 gr @ 1800+ fps

thomas · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2003, 02:31:47 PM »

If we are going to be upset with S&W and NOT purchase them. Then we better just make sure we DO NOT purchase the following.

Any company building firearms or PARTS for firearms NOT in this country.
DO not purchase any firearm from a company who has helped the Activists in any way.

So who is left?

We all have our pet pieves so were does it stop?
Guess it is up for each to decide on his own.
Heck ford and dodge has parts and trucks built in Mexico. And is Mexico really helpinig our economy or hurting it?

I just get FRIED when I see an AMERICAN putting out a American Flag in the front of his house or driving around with a flag on his car after 911.
DID you ever look to see where most of them were made? Look good.
They say MADE IN CHINA How many have really looked to see if it was made in America?

Tom

Greybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2003, 03:00:27 PM »

Jerry, you asked: "BTW GB, you bought a 454, was it just to have the biggest and badest?"

Nope. First off I don't recall making any comment regarding biggest and badest. Perhaps I did and have forgotten or perhaps you are confusing my comments with those of others. BUT either way, the reason I got the .454 Casull was because of folks continuously asking me my opinion of it and should they get one. Since I didn't have one and hadn't shot one I really had no opiinon. I got Bob Baker of Freedom Arms to send me an FA83 for product testing and report and got the Taurus RB .454 Casull which I still have but have no real need for. I doubt I'll ever hunt anything I feel the .44 Mag. inadequate for.

BTW S&W will give you the same party line as has been printed in all the magazines already. They will say the agreement has been set aside. This is NOT truthful however. It has only been ignored by the Bush administration. No legal action has been taken on it by either party. Not enforceable? Well true but false. Legally it is binding and enforceable on S&W. BUT they agreed to do things they do not have the power or legal right to do. So to that effect it is uneforceable.

I'm betting however they are still contributing those dollars for antigun activity that the agreement calls for and I'll bet it is still being used to take away your guns. Every time you buy a new S&W you are donating dollars to help take away your guns. If that suits you then more power to you. It doesn't suit me however.

GB