Author Topic: Bashing the 30-30 (Read 1964 times)

Greysky · « **on:** June 03, 2005, 03:46:24 AM »

Although I have only heard one man knock the Handi-Rifle, (BTW, this particular fellow is a genuine legend in his own mind.) I have read several irreverent remarks made about the 30-30 Winchester cartridge.

Some younger folks snigger about the 30-30 being "obsolete" and "an old man's cartridge."

Well, I've recently learned that the venerable 30-30 cartridge can be juiced-up in a Handi with hotter loads, and more aerodynamically suitable bullets. Of course, it will never be able to outperform more modern cartridges that are larger, less fuel efficient, and kick like the proverbial mule. But I, for one, don't expect it to, or want it to for that matter.

To all the youthful wonders, and older legends in their own minds, I would have them consider the following fact: A Model-T cannot begin to compete with a Porsche on a modern highway. But a Model-T can scoot down a rutted dirt road while the Porsche will bottom out just past the starting line. Comparably, the 30-30 cannot compete at long range on big game the way a 300 magnum can. Yet, the 30-30 has proven to be a more efficient woodland cartridge on medium-sized game at closer ranges. I can't really explain this ballistic fact. But it does prove that bigger, faster, and sexier is not always preferable to slower, smaller, and less juicy. :wink:

dawei · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2005, 04:00:33 AM »

Quote from: Greysky

Although I have only heard one man knock the Handi-Rifle, (BTW, this particular fellow is a genuine legend in his own mind.) I have read several irreverent remarks made about the 30-30 Winchester cartridge.

Some younger folks snigger about the 30-30 being "obsolete" and "an old man's cartridge."

Well, I've recently learned that the venerable 30-30 cartridge can be juiced-up in a Handi with hotter loads, and more aerodynamically suitable bullets. Of course, it will never be able to outperform more modern cartridges that are larger, less fuel efficient, and kick like the proverbial mule. But I, for one, don't expect it to, or want it to for that matter.

To all the youthful wonders, and older legends in their own minds, I would have them consider the following fact: A Model-T cannot begin to compete with a Porsche on a modern highway. But a Model-T can scoot down a rutted dirt road while the Porsche will bottom out just past the starting line. Comparably, the 30-30 cannot compete at long range on big game the way a 300 magnum can. Yet, the 30-30 has proven to be a more efficient woodland cartridge on medium-sized game at closer ranges. I can't really explain this ballistic fact. But it does prove that bigger, faster, and sexier is not always preferable to slower, smaller, and less juicy. :wink:

I think the 30/30 will always be with us; it's a absolutely great cartridge. It's been around for 110 years with no sign of going anywhere. It is not so much as what you shoot as how you shoot. I certainly love mine; started my son & grandsons with it.

In this day & age of the Ultra Mags, WSM's, WSSM's, etc I'll stick with my classics: 22LR, 270, 30/30, 30/06, & 45/70. As I get older & the miles longer I use the 30/30 more & more. Dead is dead. The 30/30 is a gun for hunters vs shooters.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 03, 2005, 04:12:09 AM »

I just love the 30/30 as an all around brush round and anyone that handloads for it can tell you it will do things that most people would be amazed with :-)

I use it in my 10 in. contender and my 94 win. plan to get a handi brl. soon.

you can load down for plunking or varmits and up for deer and hogs , just a good all around cartridge

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #3 on:** June 03, 2005, 04:56:49 AM »

You guys can have the 30/30! :roll: I would take a .35 Rem, 300 Savage, or 45-70 over 30/30 any day of the week. Oh ya, you can add the 45 Colt and 30-40 Krag to that list, too

Jim

Greysky · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2005, 05:40:02 AM »

A good site for those who appreciate what the 30-30 has to offer: The Venerable 30-30

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 03, 2005, 06:11:54 AM »

The 30-30 is one of the Great cartridges...it can work for a-lot of different people...for many different reasons...if you don't need or want a flatter shooting ...harder hitting.....cartridge...that's fine...but for those that do...there are many choices available.

There are several folks who like to post deraugartory things about calibers they don't like here..from time to time...they love bashing cartridges that have proven themselves over the years because they aren't magnum class type cartridges....it makes one wonder if they have ever bothered shooting them...or if all the recoil from all those so-called ultra magnums has rattled something loose in their heads...cause they just don't get it...

I see nothing wrong with shooting those big magnums...whenever or where ever they want to...but there is no reason to start putting any other non-magnum class cartridge down.All of the cartridges have their place in the scheme of things...some better...some worse...some shoot flatter...other have a nice rainbow trajectory...some are rimmed...others aren't...it really shouldn't matter...what does matter is that we all should enjoy what we do...and not just try to start a feued over cartridge choice...

I know I can't change the mind of those I speak of...but I can limit what is said on here about it.. especially...if it's just to start an argument...

Mac

Coastwatcher · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2005, 06:28:53 AM »

People get all wrapped up in the theory of cartridge selection. Its kind of like comparing which car has more horsepower, when the truth is most of always drive where the speed limit is 60.

I have a couple of Win 94s in 30/30 and I think they are excellent. They do the job on the farm and work well in the bush at the distances I need. At distances greater than the effective expansion I'm not good enough to hit anything anyway, so why do I need an elephant gun.

My $.02 (Cdn).

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2005, 06:32:45 AM »

IF I ever considered selling some of my Handis :eek: .....the 30-30 wouldn't be one of them!!! It's one of my favorites. :grin:

Tim

Varminter · « **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2005, 06:40:40 AM »

The first gun i started deer huntin with was a marlin 336 in 30-30. Its one of the best cartridges ever made and i think everyone should own one. There has been more medium sized game taken with the 30-30 than probably any other cartridge made. Its just a classic that will never fade away.

Greysky · « **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2005, 06:59:41 AM »

I've developed two loads for the 30-30 that are accurate, and potent within the reasonable range provided by good iron sights.

Speer 130 grain FBHP bullets over 37 grains of Varget, and BR-2 primers.

Sierra 110 grain FBHP bullets over 34 grains of RE-7, and BR-2 primers.

CAUTION: I worked up to these loads gradually without encountering any indications of excessive pressure. If you want to try these loads, please follow the same procedure.

tom barthel · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2005, 07:38:11 AM »

My first centerfire rifle was a 6.5 jap on a carcano action. In my area of Oklahoma, the long range shots are usually way out to about 50 yards. A lot of hunters take dear at closer ranges. I usually load my ammo down. As for accuracy, a 6 inch group at 100 yards will bring home the game 99% of the time. A lot of folks around here bow hunt at closer ranges. You can use a peice of steel or a rock on a stick, cast lead bullets or modern bullets in an expensive rifle and still be able to miss. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a .30-30. I just recently got a .30-30 barrel for my rifle. It is a joy to shoot. Don't know if I'll ever get to hunt with it. It wouldn't be my first choice for something that may eat me but if it was all I had, I wouldn't hesitate using it on anything in the USA. as with anything, put it where it needs to go.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

McLernon · « **Reply #11 on:** June 03, 2005, 09:11:33 AM »

Quote from: Greysky

Although I have only heard one man knock the Handi-Rifle, (BTW, this particular fellow is a genuine legend in his own mind.) I have read several irreverent remarks made about the 30-30 Winchester cartridge.

Some younger folks snigger about the 30-30 being "obsolete" and "an old man's cartridge."

Well, I've recently learned that the venerable 30-30 cartridge can be juiced-up in a Handi with hotter loads, and more aerodynamically suitable bullets. Of course, it will never be able to outperform more modern cartridges that are larger, less fuel efficient, and kick like the proverbial mule. But I, for one, don't expect it to, or want it to for that matter.

To all the youthful wonders, and older legends in their own minds, I would have them consider the following fact: A Model-T cannot begin to compete with a Porsche on a modern highway. But a Model-T can scoot down a rutted dirt road while the Porsche will bottom out just past the starting line. Comparably, the 30-30 cannot compete at long range on big game the way a 300 magnum can. Yet, the 30-30 has proven to be a more efficient woodland cartridge on medium-sized game at closer ranges. I can't really explain this ballistic fact. But it does prove that bigger, faster, and sexier is not always preferable to slower, smaller, and less juicy. :wink:

The 30-30 has earned a special place as an excellent deer cartridge and those who have never used it just don't understand. I own a Marlin CS336 lever-action and while it is NOT a tack driver, any deer shot at within 100 yards is venison in the pot. I will always love my 30-30 even if there are 'better' cartridges out there.

mangulator · « **Reply #12 on:** June 03, 2005, 11:34:30 AM »

I will need to agree with quickdtoo, the 30-30 handi barrel would be the last barrel I would get rid of. The 30-30 will always be a classic cartridge and will be the first caliber I would consider using for any of my deer hunts.

mt3030 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2005, 12:54:36 PM »

I think my handle says it all. I only have four rifles in 30-30 Winchester at this time, but I"ve had break open, falling block, lever, bolt and pump. Any style you like, it's there. Traditional or modern loads, within it's limitations, it'll do.

Wally

Chainsaw · « **Reply #14 on:** June 03, 2005, 02:17:50 PM »

Quote from: Greysky

A good site for those who appreciate what the 30-30 has to offer: The Venerable 30-30

Greysky, Thanks for the web addy................Chainsaw

Major · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2005, 02:31:11 PM »

I love the .30-30 but I use the .30-30 Ackley Improved so that if someone else ever picks up any of my slightly hotter handloads they wont chamber in an older lever gun that isnt up to the task.

The Ackley is easy to cut into a Handi chamber and will still fire a factory .30-30 if you need to buy a few rounds while away from your loading bench. In fact, that is how I fire form all my shells. I just buy up .30-30s when I find a good sale and have fun shooting them.

Greysky · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2005, 02:38:07 PM »

Quote from: Chainsaw

Quote from: Greysky
A good site for those who appreciate what the 30-30 has to offer: The Venerable 30-30

Greysky, Thanks for the web addy................Chainsaw

You're welcome, Chainsaw.

jason280 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2005, 03:48:51 PM »

The .30-30 is truly a wonderful cartridge, and I doubt it will ever fade away. I have both a 336 and a 94AE, and I will never get rid of those rifles.

Major,

What kind of velocities have you gotten with the .30-30 AI? I've considered buying a Handi in .30-30 just to convert, so it would be nice to hear from someone with first hand experience.

bwana · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2005, 04:27:22 PM »

Ah, you have to just LOVE the internet!

It's the mythical world where deer are routinely dropped in their tracks at 400 yards and groundhogs are just as frequently plugged at a thousand. Folks rattle off fresh misconceptions and misinformation at 6000 feet per second and all their shots are touching at any range.

Others will debate the most inconsequential details as though they alone have found the fountain of MOA accuracy.

Still more obsess with making the biggest BOOM they can find. The .999 Casull will be the ultimate handgun whenever someone dumb enough to build one shows up.

Does this mean all you read is bunk? Certainly not. I have read considerable wisdom both here and elsewhere on the 'net. But the TRUTH is....

Heck, who knows the TRUTH?

The truth is, poor old Grandpa didn't know diddly squat about ballistics. Didn't have a clue how many FPS his old .30/30 shot. Didn't know muzzle energy from a hollow point. And he and his genertation killed plenty of game. Dead is dead.

You can argue Fords and Chevys all day, but huntin' ain't shootin' and shootin' ain't huntin'. A man who knows HIS gun and can hit what he's aiming at is going to eat.

I saw a friend of a friend who I know considers himself a ballistics expert sit in a $400 tree stand with a $1000 bazooka and a stiff breeze AT HIS BACK blowing straight down his cultivated feed plot and didn't get a look at a deer. When a 16 year old woods-wise son of a good hunter killed a nice doe with a .17 Remington, shot properly from about 50 yards just behind the shoulder, killed her plenty dead. The kid stayed in his stand out of courtesy knowing his deer was down and dead and a wounded buck limped by 15 minuted later. He quickly dispatched the suffering gut-shot animal in the exact same place. (Impressive wound channels from the .17 Remington, by the way)

So put my money on the kid with a hot-rod slingshot and some good sense. The expert's MOA accuracy and ballistics advantage couldn't kill a ballpark frank.

Guns don't kill anything, bullets do.

I'd bet the .30/30 has killed more deer, rabbits, crows, groundhogs, sheep, skunks, elk, bears, ... you name it than all other calibers put together. And it did it all with ballisticlly inferior performance. Poor thing.

bwana

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2005, 05:44:54 PM »

The 30-30 has proven itself a work horse for many purposes. I don't shoot it, but I won't bash it either. Interestingly enough, if I'm not mistaken, it's the ballistic equivilant to the 7.62x39 round.

jgalar · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2005, 07:29:22 PM »

A few years back I was looking through a gun/hunting forum, don't recall which one. There was someone in PA that was going to start deer hunting and was asking for recommendations on a firearm to get, he was also left handed and didn't have much money. There were post after post with this and that model of left handed bolt guns. I made the suggestion to get a 30-30 levergun since he was going to be hunting in thick woods and he said he didn't have much money. I got flamed by poster after poster for the suggestion.

Lots of stupid people out there who believe the BS that comes from the gun writers.

jh45gun · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2005, 07:31:27 PM »

The old Thuty Thuty WORKS enough said.

tneff · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2005, 09:25:08 PM »

My first hunting rifle was a 30-30 , probably one of my all time favorites . If I had to chooses one all around gun it would definatley be on the top of my list , if it was good enough for grandad then it's good enough for me.

DanielWGriggs · « **Reply #23 on:** June 04, 2005, 01:41:47 AM »

Don't have one. Always wanted one. Lever action just for the fun of it. Eventualy will get a barrell for my Handi too.

Airsporter · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2005, 01:47:48 AM »

30-30 has a definite ballistic edge over the 7.62x39, especially in a modern gun with handloads using pointed bullets. Flat and round nose factory loads must be suitable (safe) for those really old model 94's.

Muddy05 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 04, 2005, 02:06:51 AM »

The .30-30 is just plain American! If you dont own one or haven't shot one, then.... SHAME ON YOU!! I totally agree with Quick.

JPH45 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2005, 03:08:43 AM »

Quote from: jgalar

A few years back I was looking through a gun/hunting forum, don't recall which one. There was someone in PA that was going to start deer hunting and was asking for recommendations on a firearm to get, he was also left handed and didn't have much money. There were post after post with this and that model of left handed bolt guns. I made the suggestion to get a 30-30 levergun since he was going to be hunting in thick woods and he said he didn't have much money. I got flamed by poster after poster for the suggestion.

Lots of stupid people out there who believe the BS that comes from the gun writers.

Many don't know better, lots of people who speak bad about the 30-30 have never even owned one, much less spent any time in the field with one, but they aren't afraid to opinionate about it. I've never been in a hunting situation that the 30-30 wouldn't do well in, and it is hard for me to imagine such a situation. The 30-30 ain't no dangerous game stopper, was never meant to be. But it does what it was made to exellently. I figure it will always be with us because of that.

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #27 on:** June 04, 2005, 04:55:01 AM »

<>

I didn't think the lever guns were any more expeisve than bolt guns. It seems most bolt rifles are MORE expensive. And even Stevie Wonder can see that the 30-30 can take down a deer. :-D I knew that. It's no long distance ringer, unless in the hands of very skilled persons. I'd move on to another forum, like this one.

Greysky · « **Reply #28 on:** June 04, 2005, 06:19:53 AM »

So far, the tally is 23-1 in favor of the 30-30. :grin:

I think the 30-30 might actually be around for at least another century, if the Second Amendment is still recognized as an individual right, that is.

You've made my day, fellers.

Sourdough · « **Reply #29 on:** June 04, 2005, 08:31:48 AM »

I'm one of the first to say the 30-30 is obsolete, yet I own two. A Marlin 336 and a TC Contender. I leave the Marlin in Tennessee to use when I go there to hunt Whitetail. Of course my brothers are always borrowing it to go hunting, since their wives don't allow guns in their homes. (Boy are they whipped bad). The Contender I use here in Alaska for hunting, I've taken a nice Caribou with it several years ago. For an obsolete cartridge, it is still the most populer cartridge sold in the US. As my Dad and many others say (It was good enough for Granddad, It's good enough for me). My Dad has one that was built around the turn of the last century, it belonged to his grandfather. It's been reblued several times, had the stock replaced once, and several internal parts have worn out and been replaced. Yet it still shoots, and he takes a deer with it "every once in a while" as he says. Every store back there in the hills carry the 30-30 cartridges, and some places that is the only cartridge they carry. There is never a shortage of that ammo.