Some thoughts for a air rifle purchase

[Mac11700]

Man...talk about over-loading ones brains...I really had no idea there were some many different rifles to choose from on the market today...and on top of all that...the variations betweeen spring guns and CO2 guns...good grief...it's no wonder sooooooo many folks don't know which way to go anymore.

I've been looking at as many different types over the last couple weeks...I think I've confused myself even more than when I first started out.

I think I have it narrowed down to a couple different models...but then again I probably will see something else and start wondering all over again.

So...here's what I would like it to do...maybe you all can lead me in the right direction...I want it to be accurate...I would like to be able to hunt with it... birds as big as crows and squirrels chipmunks...perhaps even a ground hog since I have a few of them around...and so...long range accuracy is important too...which brings me to cost..I don't think I can go over $250.00 right now...maybe later on getting a good scope for it will happen...but not right away...I would also like to be able to shoot indoors with it over the winter...so...10 yards...on out to ?

So...with all that..how would a GS1000 be...would it work or is there something better on the market...I really don't like any of the GAMO rifles...I've looked at a bunch of them...and they do nothing for me...and I've heard they have a lot of problems and they don't stand behind there products very well... The Tech force 99 seem ok...haven't seen any good reviews on accuracy with them to know...but since they already come with  the spring kits in them...they seem like a good buy...I'm guessing since I'm wanting to hunt with them...I'll probably have to go with at least the 22 cal right???

So...a little help here guys...help this newbe- old dog out...

Mac

[victorcharlie]

Hey Mac.......bought a tech force 99 in a .177......I've had it now for a few weeks and am on my third 250 pack of pellets.........I don't like the factory sights on mine.......Large hooded "insert"..........I haven't been really impressed with the accuracy of mine yet.........It's one of the ones with the McCarrie spring installed........

I do know that of the 4 different brands of pellets, it likes the beeman wad cutters best.......I have not tried a sampler pack of pellets yet.......I read the M99 is very accurate with the right pellet......but I haven't found the pellet yet......

Accuracy did improve after cleaning the bore well, and lock titeing all the screws........

I think I got caught up with the velocity....thinking the .177 would be a little flatter shooting than the .22.......I'm thinking I should have gotten the .22.....Most air gun matches are shot with .177 and .177 seems to be the standard.....more and different pellets available for .177..from what I read the M97, while it doesn't have the velocity of the M99, has an adjustable trigger and is more accurate........

Maybe Lawdawg can provide more info as I believe he has both models......I do shoot the air rifle every day, and that's a good thing.......having a lot of fun with it........

[dave]

First, if you want to hunt crows and gophers with it you're going to need decent power. High power guns and basement 10m shooting don't mix.
Second, stay clear of the Beeman GS series guns, and most of the Chinese guns. The GS guns are inexpensive Spanish (Norica) made stuff, and for the most part look much better than they perform. The Chinese guns are hit and miss. Some are apparently ok, some outright suck, depending on whether the QC inspector (who??) was in that day and was actually paying attention.
If you want a dependable, well made gun in the price range you set, look at these- RWS 94 (Made by Cometa), RWS 36, RWS 48,(made by Diana) and for a bit more the Beeman R9(made by Weihrauch).
I own guns of all the types mentiones above- Chinese guns, Spanish guns, several guns by Dianawerk, several guns by Weihrauch. The Norica and Chinese guns don't compare to the German guns. The RWS Diana 48 is a real powerhouse, and comes in 3 calibers- .177, .22, and .25. The R9 is one of the most popular hunting guns out there, comes in .177 and .20, but you can get it in .22 if you look around for the non-Beeman HW marked version. The RWS 94 is also a popular gun- lots of power, not very expensive, and a good shooter. The RWS Diana 36 is a longtime proven performer also, and is quite popular in either .22 or .177.

[dave]

One other thing to check out- take a look at the Webley line-up. The accuracy and fit-and-finish of the Webleys are as good as you'll find for any price. The Xocet and the Stingray are good choices to start with.

[Lawdog]

Mac,

I wouldn't touch one of the GS1000.  Too many complaints about poor crowning of the barrels and stock fit that’s below what one would expect from an importer the caliber of Beeman(although Beeman's reputation isn't what it used to be).  Does the budget of $250.00 include scope and mounts?  If so your choices are going to be somewhat limited.  Pump up rifles really make poor choices for hunting.  Too noisy and slow when it comes to a second shot.  A good “springer” rifle is the way to go.  And .22 caliber is the choice for hunting.

Dave knows this is coming,  :-D , but there are Chinese rifles and then there are Chinese rifles.   A Tech Force 99M in .22 caliber would make you a good starter rifle.  Accurate)once you learn how to shoot a springer rifle) and powerful enough to take quite large game with(I have taken a few Turkey's with mine).  After you save some money you can always move up to a Theoben, Air Arms, Air Force, etc. PCP that are exceptionally accurate and powerful.  But this kind of accuracy and power doesn’t come cheap.  With your budget I would go with a Tech Force 99m in .22 caliber, mount a good air rifle approved scope on it and practice shooting.  After you save a few dollars send the 99M to Charlie’s Springer Works for one of his Super Tune Ups and the difference will amaze you.  Lawdog
 

[dave]

saw that one a mile away, I'm ready for ya

The 99 may be ok, but out of the 70 or so airguns I own from every corner of the world, fact is European guns, the higher end English and German ones especially, are hands down better than any Chinese gun I've seen. Many first time airgunners buy a cheap rifle, and are quickly put off by it. As a result, they toss it and leave the sport thinking that all airguns are like that.
 The HW Rekord trigger is just about the best you'll find, fit and finish is excellent. The HW guns I have are overall the best shooters out of the bunch.  The TF trigger is a low-budget copy of the Rekord, similiar but not near as good. HW  barrels are pretty much as good as you'll get, firing action is generally very smooth, and accuracy is excellent.
Dianawerk has been making quality airguns for near 100 years. Their guns are mostly under rated, and compare well with models from other makers costing considerably more.
Webley guns have just about the best fit-and-finish on any production gun in any price range. Barrels (especially the newer choked ones) are pretty close to being match-grade. The Webley 2-stage trigger found on the Xocet and other Vulcan-based guns is excellent, and the trigger found on the larger guns such as the Patriot is also quite well done. The bluing on the Webleys, even the lowest priced models, is second to none. The Xocet carbine, a cut down Vulcan based 13 ft/lb rifle, is at the lower end of the line at about $230. It has the same quality throughout as the top end Patriot. It'll shoot dime size groups at 30 yards with the right pellet. The trigger is very close to Rekord quality. The only complaint with the Webleys is that the recoil is a bit high, especially in the Patriot, and it takes some practice to shoot one well. Webleys are generally pretty powerful for their size, and as a result cocking effort is a bit on the high side.
If I was going to spend $250 on an airgun (I have, that and more many times over) I'd want to be sure what I'm getting is the best I can get with no unwanted surprises or luck of the draw guns.

[jeager106]

The Wal-mart Gamo Shadow at about 129 bucks is a good 'nuff deal for a .177 caliber.
I bought one before I read up on them.
It's got the power at an advertized 1000 f.p.s (they all lie) but it's a bear trying to stay on target while getting the trigger to let go with the pry bar wedged in the trigger gaurd! :-D
I've read of some guys that do o.k. using a come-a-long to set 'er off! :shock:

[Mac11700]

Wow :eek: ...this is pretty cool...more stuff to consider...

Lawdog...Thanks You for the heads up on the Beeman GS1000 guns...I had no idea they were that bad...I've looked pretty hard at the TF99's...they are pretty inexpensive for sure...and 1 of their match rifles from what I can tell looks real sharp...its the TF79t...even though it is one of those with a reserve tank on it...

Dave...I guess you kinda like the RWS models...and the same company that sells Lawdogs Tech Forces...also has a pretty good price on the RWS...how do you like the Diana 34...they have a combo with mounts scope and a RWS 4x32 scope real close to my price ceiling...about $269.00...or $217 for just the rifle...

Mac

[ed1921]

Pretty much anything would work on the smaller critters, but I never tried an airgun on a ground hog.
I can recommend a RWS 48 in .22 as accurate. Maybe out of your price range especially w/ scope & mount. I paid $210 reconditioned, but they are usually more. Another $140 or so on scope & mount.
I've shot 7/8" groups at 45 yds.
Until I got the scope mounted properly, it was often shot w/ the iron sites.
I've shot & killed rabbits out to about 40 yds and squirrels out about 40. With iron sites & w/ scope.
Not that I always can hit them that far out :wink: Sometimes 20 ft can be a challenge for me.

[Lawdog]

Dave,

What you say is true to a point but just how many of these air rifles you mentioned sell for $250 Max?  I too own a number of air rifles, many of which come from companies like Theoben(Super 12, Rapid 12/250, Dual Magnum, SLR 98 and Crow Magnum models), Weihrauch(Beeman R 10), Webley & Scott(Patriot(known as the Beeman Kodiak)), Air Arms(S410E), Falcon(FN 19), and a RWS (M52 I just got for a song) not to forget the assorted Sheridan, Crosman’s and one Gamo I have around, but with the exception of those few the other rifles don’t come in a price range that many can afford.  When someone tells me that their budget is X amount of dollars and they want to get into the sport I try to fit the rifle to their request/budget.  Until I bought my Tech Force 99M I too used to think that anything made in China was JUNK.  But I did my homework and found that isn’t always true.  Now I have a Tech Force 99M, M97, and a M25.  These rifles are far from being JUNK.  In fact the accuracy and power is surprisingly very good and better.  Yes these are not the cheapest rifles you can get from Compasseco, Inc. but I never recommend anything I haven’t tried myself and I don’t recommend the real cheap models.  That is why I originally bought my 99M, I wanted to see for myself and I wanted a low cost rifle I could carry around in my truck and not fear damaging it.  My 99M fits that request and shoots groups at 25 yards you can cover with a dime(got targets I have shot to show this), which rivals my SLR 98 & Dual Magnum from Theoben.  Same goes for the M25 which rivals my R 10 for accuracy and power.  Like I said, there are Chinese air guns and then there are Chinese air guns.  All depends on the make/model you purchase.  Got a question for you on which you prefer, Barnes(I just love that Ranger Delta 32 Magnum) or Quackenbush rifles?  Lawdog
 :toast:

[dave]

If you know where to look and what to look for, you can find any of the guns mentioned for quite near the $250 mark. The Xocet is about 230-240 new, the RWS guns go from under 200 for the 34 to about 270 for the 48, depending on where you find them. Of course, used guns are a very good option too. I recently came into a Patriot in .25 for $250. The gun had a small scratch on the receiver where the owner didn't know how to properly mount the scope, but otherwise its mint.(21gr domes at 800+fps-whoopeee!!!) You never know what you'll find in the used gun market. (barn-burner full boat FWB124 dirt cheap  but thats another story...) The post below by MAC11700 he says he can get an R-9 with mounts for $250. Thats a pretty good deal.
Chinese rifles seem to be a crapshoot. Some guys like them and the guns they have work good. Others have the same makes and models and they just don't work, or break after only a few shots. I've heard so many complaints about burned seals, metal shavings in the tube, cracked stocks, broken levers, inaccuracy, poor QC etc that I don't think I'd like to spend anything on a Chinese gun again.  

I know when I buy a Weihrauch, Webley, or Diana that these problems will almost certainly be nonexistant. I also know that if there is a problem, high quality replacement parts are easily obtainable and the guns are easy to repair.
The Diana 34, 36, etc are all very good guns, well worth the asking price. I have a model 54,a model 50, 2 model 27s, a 25 and a couple other smaller models. All shoot well and are quite accurate, even the small youth model guns. However, the HW guns are what I prefer. The Rekord trigger is what sets them above the others. I've owned 4, an R1 .20 carbine, R10 Deluxe in .177, an Hw 50s in .177 and an HW 35L in .177. All are excellent guns and top contenders in their respective classes.

Gary Barnes makes some real nice guns, but like his knives they are more works of art than something you would use regularly. Dennis Quackenbush makes guns that you wouldn't be afraid to carry out into the woods. I don't think I could justify carrying a custom made $3600+ gun into the brush and risk even the smallest scratch. Dennis however makes some real cool stuff from the lowly Crosman 22xx guns, and  other high power guns that are meant to be used. On the numerous other airgun forums, there are owners of both. However, theres rarely a mention of the Barnes guns, but plenty of DAQ action going on. That says something too.

[Mac11700]

Dave said:

If you know where to look and what to look for, you can find any of the guns mentioned for quite near the $250 mark.The Xocet is about 230-240 new, the RWS guns go from under 200 for the 34 to about 270 for the 48, depending on where you find them.

Please...I don't...so could you point me in the right direction?

Mac

[Lawdog]

Dave,

Please post the business names/addresses where shooters can purchase these rifles at prices you state.  The R 9 Mac is talking about is a used rifle.  Can you buy a new one equipped the same way for that price?  Used rifles can be a hit or miss depending on your knowledge of what you are looking for.  Same with buying a used car.  Also no warrantee/guarantee’s go along with used rifles in most cases.  Sure great buys come along like the Theoben Dual Magnum I got that was near new condition for 60% of what it should have cost me.  One can also find factory “Blems” for greatly reduced prices when available.

Chinese rifles seem to be a crapshoot. Some guys like them and the guns they have work good. Others have the same makes and models and they just don't work, or break after only a few shots. I've heard so many complaints about burned seals, metal shavings in the tube, cracked stocks, broken levers, inaccuracy, poor QC etc that I don't think I'd like to spend anything on a Chinese gun again.

This is all true a few years ago.  But all one has to do is look at all the awards that Shanghai Air Gun Factory(the manufacture of the Tech Force line that Compasseco, Inc. sells(Tech Force is a regerested name that Compasseco. Inc. relabels their rifles with)) has earned.  The following is just an example;

We are proud of declaring: The Industry Brand that Shanghai Air Gun Factory produces became a great attraction in the seventh Asian Games, where Chinese athletes won team championship in shooting sport item and 1 gold. They broke the records of the Asian Games. For several years, more and more shooter teams have used the Industry Brand air guns including air rifles and air pistols. These teams captured excellent achievements in domestic and overseas games. So far these athletes have broken the world shooting records 3 times and won 19 golds in all in national games and Asian games as well as the international games.

Many people confuse Shanghai Air Gun Factory with BAM Industries and they are totally different and make a much higher quality air guns than BAM Industries.

Gary Barnes makes some real nice guns, but like his knives they are more works of art than something you would use regularly. Dennis Quackenbush makes guns that you wouldn't be afraid to carry out into the woods. I don't think I could justify carrying a custom made $3600+ gun into the brush and risk even the smallest scratch.

You’re talking to a guy that regularity hunts with Weatherby Mark V Deluxe and custom built rifles so taking a Barnes air rifle into the woods wouldn’t bother me.  In fact I prefer hunting with beautiful firearms.  No stainless/synthetic rifles in my safes.  Lawdog
 

[dave]

Webley Xocet, $238 at Compasseco and Pyramidair

RWS 34, $191.87 at D&R Sports.

RWS 36, $257.81 at D&R Sports.

RWS 48, $276.10 at D&R Sports.

Airgun Express also has a list of Beeman blems and RWS Demo guns at reduced prices.
Take a look at the American Airguns classified ads also for some good buys-  http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds_body.html

I know thats a used R-9 he is talking about, a new one sells for $310-320, plus about $50 for a decent set of mounts, plus whatever you want to spend on a scope.
I'd buy a used R-9 before a new Chinese gun. Even if the seals bad or the springs weak, parts are cheap, easily available and easily installed even by a novice. I routinely go through any used gun I buy even though it seems ok, just to make sure its lubed correctly and everything is as it should be. Owning a spring gun sort of compells you to learn how to do DIY repairs, unless you like paying big labor charges to install $10 parts and shipping your gun all around the country for who knows how long. Springs do need replacement, seals don't last forever, and lubes dry up, and even new guns usually need to have a prober lube and moly application for best performance. So, buying a used gun isn't a lot different from buying new. As long as it hasn't been abused, and the buyer knows to check the for basics, such as clean bore, lubed springs and pivots, loose scews, trigger that works properly, etc, there shouldn't be a problem. Its also good to have access to the gun before buying it to make sure its working to spec. Getting a few numbers from a chronograph can tell you a lot.
As for the Chinese rifles, the problems I am referring to were in the past few months, not years ago, and are on-going even now. I've heard in the past few weeks complaints about Techforce guns QC, accuracy and power not being up to whats claimed. However, others have said that their guns were fine. And about the Industry Brand and the Asian Games- Seems to me that most of the Chinese shooters used FWB rifles? I believe the womens record holder uses an FWB 603.  The IB rifles are nowhere near competitive.

[Lawdog]

Dave,

My only problem with buying used rifles, especially over the net, is it’s a crap shoot.  Just because an air rifle looks good doesn’t mean your not buying someone’s problem.  Most times you don’t get any guarantee - a.k.a. Buyer Beware.  It is even worse if the person doing the buying really doesn’t know what to look for in a used air gun, even if he gets to handle it before buying.  Sure you and I have the experience and knowledge to go thru a used air rifle that you bought and make repairs but how many posting here have that knowledge?  Lawdog
 

[Mac11700]

Not me I'm afraid :oops: ....That's one of the reasons I like it here at GBO's....lots of knowledge to draw on...

I do know one thing...if there is something wrong with my purchase...the folks I deal with will make it right....I may pay a little more...but ......they are 10 minutes away from my home...and I've dealt with them ever since I moved here to St.Louis...

I really do appreciate all of the good suggestions and advice from you guys...I'm learning more and more each day...

Mac