Author Topic: Trying to start, but dont know what to get  (Read 1297 times)

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Offline goose7856

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Trying to start, but dont know what to get
« on: June 08, 2005, 10:16:06 AM »
I was going to get an entirely new gun, but have now decided I will just "bite the bullet" and learn to reload.  I was going to get a small caliber (25-06), but have instead decided to reload my 30-06 with 115-130 grain bullets.

So where do I start? What should I get. I know there are tons of different powders, and different types of reloading equipment.

I will have plenty of $$ to start this project with ($1200), and i dont want to buy things twice b/c the first time I went the cheap route. Then again I dont need the most expensive thing also.

Im really a deer in the head lights with this discussion. I know there are alot of parts: dies, powder, etc.

TIA!
Good Hunting and Straight Shooting

Offline stimpylu32

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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2005, 12:26:37 PM »
The first thing you need to get is 2 or 3 reloading manuels and start reading , some of this stuff is weary dry reading but you need to learn to crawl before you can walk

The second thing is to decide do i want to reload just rifle or pistol and rifle and how much are you going to load , this will help determine what press to get . for the person just starting out i would suggest a single stage press , that way you have to do the steps one at a time .

A lot of people like to bash lee presses and dies but for the money you can't go wrong they are good tools , the classic cast anniversary kit will have every thing you will need to get started except powder and primers and bullets.

Check the manuals to see which cal. you intend to load , choose a powder for that cal. and bullet weight . then go to a gun shop that sells reloading supplys to get powder , the primers ,  bullets you will need . while you are there see if they know any other reloaders in the area that might be willing to help you get started .

I have been reloading for over 20 years and still don't know every thing and never will.
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Offline Jack Crevalle

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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2005, 12:27:18 PM »
For $250 you can can an RCBS master reloading kit with almost everything you need except the dies (and powder, bullets and primers of course). If you want one with the electric scale and powder measure that will be $400-$450. The kit also contains the Speer manual that has plenty of reloading receipes for 30-06 as well as tutorial instructions.

Offline myronman3

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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2005, 04:02:56 PM »
i started with a lee anniversary kit.  it helped me learn the basics.  

the rcbs kit jack mentioned can not be beat; and the speer reloading manuel is one of my favorites.

Offline ricciardelli

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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2005, 04:09:37 PM »
Get yourself the RCBS Rock Chucker kit and the RCBS Accessory kit.  That will give you everything you need to get started properly.

However, I don't think you are going to be happy with your '06 and 115 to 130 grain bullets.

From your bullet weight selection I have a feeling that you intend on doing a little varmint hunting.  If so, then I would suggest one of the 6mm's and the Sierra 85 HPBT.

Offline jgalar

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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2005, 04:27:04 PM »
The Lee reloading manual is made for those just starting out. It reads like an ad for Lee products, but is a good read for those starting out. As stated above, pick up a few reloading manuals and read up a bit.

Offline Catfish

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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2005, 05:06:24 PM »
For starters the lightest bullet I found that will shoot good groups at long ranges is the 130 gn. Speer HP. Excellant varmint bullet. The RCBS Rock Chucker, or similar heave press is a good place to start and will probibly be all you`ll ever need. You will need a good scales, press, dies, manual and if possible find someone close that has been reloading for a while to help you get started.

Offline goose7856

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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2005, 06:40:45 PM »
How would the Barnes TSX 130 grain work for DEER. Thats what I would want to shoot out of my 30-06....im tired of the 165 grainers blowing a huge hole through them. And will the 130s give better long range performance (less drop at longer ranges)?

TIA
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2005, 12:34:21 AM »
Quote from: goose7856
How would the Barnes TSX 130 grain work for DEER. Thats what I would want to shoot out of my 30-06....im tired of the 165 grainers blowing a huge hole through them. And will the 130s give better long range performance (less drop at longer ranges)?

TIA


With a 30-06 for varments, use a FMJ bullet and go about 168 gr. You will get better accuracy out of a longer bullet than one of the shorter 130 gr.

The 130 gr. Barnes TSX would not be any different on damage to deer than the 165 gr. bullets.  Yes, the 130 gr. bullet would be a little flatter shooting but the heavier bullet will be better as far as accuracy, because it will buffer the wind better at longer ranges. JMHO.  :D
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Offline Dave in WV

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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2005, 02:40:51 AM »
I eased into reloading and money was a priority in the beginning. I started with a Lee Challenger press and Lee dies. I still use the dies but with RCBS or Lyman lock rings. I now have a Lyman Chusher II press. Having a bit of experience with the Lee equipment and other brands too I'd say buy a cast iron press. Lee, Lyman, Redding, or RCBS have good cast iron presses. I'd not buy Lee dies again since I don't like their lock rings that come with the dies. Get a good mechanical scale and a good powder measure (especially if you're going to reload pistol ammo). I have a Lyman's reloading manual for handgun and rifle cartridges I like the best overall. It has cast and jacketed loads and a good intro on how to reload. I have other manuals too but they don't seem as good overall to me. A tumbler isn't a must have item when you start out but you'll want one sooner or later. For rifle cartridges you'll want to trim your brass so a trimmer and a caliper will be needed.
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Offline Dave in WV

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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2005, 02:45:08 AM »
I eased into reloading and money was a priority in the beginning. I started with a Lee Challenger press and Lee dies. I still use the dies but with RCBS or Lyman lock rings. I now have a Lyman Crusher II press. Having a bit of experience with the Lee equipment and other brands too I'd say buy a cast iron press. Lee, Lyman, Redding, or RCBS have good cast iron presses. I'd not buy Lee dies again since I don't like their lock rings that come with the dies. Get a good mechanical scale and a good powder measure (especially if you're going to reload pistol ammo). I have a Lyman's reloading manual for handgun and rifle cartridges I like the best overall. It has loads for cast and jacketed bullets and a good intro on how to reload. I have other manuals too but they don't seem as good overall to me. A tumbler isn't a must have item when you start out but you'll want one sooner or later. For rifle cartridges you'll want to trim your brass so a trimmer and a caliper will be needed. You don't have to buy the most expensive items but buy quality and you'll never be sorry.
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Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2005, 04:29:20 AM »
When I was a young man about your age......I bought a lee handloader for my first high powered rifle.......a mauser 95 in 7 X 57 mm Mauser.......this is basic kit but you'll be suprised at the quality of ammo it produces.........

If your unsure about handloading, this is a great way to start for very little money.........

That said, the RCBS Master kit is great.....and the RCBS products last at least a life time..........
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Offline Questor

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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2005, 09:17:17 AM »
goose7856:

I think you will be better off going to a 200 or 220 grain bullet if you are unsatisfied with blowing big holes into your deer.  It will be slower, less destructive, and will probably penetrate completely through the animal.  Another possibility is to use a bullet that expands less than whatever you've been using.   There's probably a bullet designed for what you want to do, but light, fast bullets are the ones that will destroy tissue.  Varmint bullets won't penetrate a deer unless you hit it just right. I've used .270 varmint bullets and have some experience with them. They're designed to blow up on contact.

If the tissue destruction you are experiencing is happening at close range, then maybe you'd be happier with a bigger and slower bullet. If you want long distance trajectory for distances longer than 300 yards, then consider a boattail bullet of around 170 or 180 grains for the 30-06.  Tissue destruction shouldn't be much of a problem at that range.

Fortunately, as the man says, you can't go wrong with a 30-06. But I believe you can go badly wrong with bullet selection for the 30-06.
Safety first

Offline goose7856

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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2005, 10:25:56 AM »
I dont think its the bullet selection thats destroying the deer so much, b/c im using 165 grain Hornady Interbonds Light Magnums.

They are very durable bullets, stay together great, and I have had exit wounds on all my deer.

Maybe ill just have to realize that a 30-06 is a little overkill on deer, and there is no way to get around the damage. I dont want to shoot 200 or 220s b/c it wont have the long range capabilities.

The first couple rounda I load will be with really cheap bulk bullets to get the hang of things, then Ill try Barnes TSX 130 grain and a assortment of 150 grain bullets (probably Swift Scirroco and Hornady Interbond, maybe even Nosler Accubonds).
Good Hunting and Straight Shooting

Offline Questor

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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2005, 10:49:52 AM »
How many yards is long range to you?
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Offline goose7856

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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2005, 10:51:22 AM »
300 is about the max i would want to shoot, maybe 350, but prob. 300.
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Offline mountainview

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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2005, 06:21:54 PM »
Goose, many newbys ask the same question and it does seem bewildering to get started, particularly when no one is willing to show you the ropes. Like anything else, get started by taking a small step. Before buying any hardware, get 2-3 reloading books and take the time to read them thoroughly. Once you've done that and understand the process, you will have a better idea of what you want to get and will be ready to start loading.

Offline Dusty Miller

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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2005, 06:24:06 PM »
Hey, maybe a reloading press is not what you need.  When you consider that just about every deer on the planet can be taken with a 25 caliber gun, maybe what you need to do is to downsize to a 257 Roberts.  I don't think its a 300 yrd. gun but my guess is that most of your shots are closer to half that anyway (unless you always shoot in wide open country).  Just a thought.
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Offline goose7856

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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2005, 06:43:42 PM »
You are correct.

Most of my shots are under 150 yards, but i still like having the option to shoot farther.
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Online Graybeard

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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2005, 07:03:17 AM »
Shoot the deer in the lungs and what difference does it make how much damage is done? It's not meat you'll be eating anyway. Shoot them in the shoulder or the gut and you have a real mess either way and will lose meat you could have eaten from the shoulder.

For deer with the '06 I really prefer the 180 grain and the old RN is great.

If you get a reloading outfit I'd stay away from Lee presses personally. I have used RCBS for many years and now use the Hornady L-N-L single stage press. I'd recommend you get either the Hornady, RCBS or Redding press. Either way it's a life time investment you'll never need to replace.

But do get the Lee Auto Prime to prime those cases. I've never found better. Also get a full box set of their Auto Prime shell holders and their press shell holders just to have when you need one not on hand.

Get a good digital scale. Mine is RCBS but back then it was the only one available.

I have dies by Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Forster and Redding. These days new dies coming to my house are Hornady only. I won't buy Lee or Forster again. The others I might but still I prefer the Hornady. Just plain don't want to seat bullets with any other these days.

Get the Lyman reloading manual and also the manuals from whatever bullet maker you plan to use and the powder maker's manuals for all powders you will use. Yeah that might be a lot of manuals. Get them.


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Offline Questor

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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2005, 07:42:27 AM »
goose:

I think you're on the right track by looking at a variety of bullet options. If you're in doubt about a particular bullet, call the manufacturer. They are very accommodating and will give you reliable recommendations.  The TSX may be a good bullet for deer. I doubt they'd make one like that for varmints because it'd be an expensive varmint bullet.  But check it out. Research into bullets is much more important than research into cartridges.  

If you're really interested in bullets of that weight, have you considered the .270 Winchester?  It's really made for that sized bullet and will give you very flat trajectory out to 300 yards.  That's what I use for my long-range rifle. It's very good.  I zero it for 270 yards and I can hold dead-on at any range out to 325 yards.  A 30-06 with a 165 grain bullet is not much different, however.

My recommendation is to pick the bullet and the trajectory you require, then work backward to the gun.

I agree with the previous posts about RCBS. You simply cannot go wrong with this stuff. I have it and it will last me a lifetime.  Avoid Lee products. I'm not even sure about the autoprime anymore. The last one I got was junk, so I use an RCBS tool for priming now and am very satisfied with it.
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2005, 08:28:42 AM »
Goose,

If you want a good combo caliber, the 6mm/.243 would be my first choice, loaded with premium bullets and using good shot placement, it would be an excellent deer cartridge and yet loaded with varmint bullets, great for them too. Barnes makes the 58gr Varminator line in .243 for $12 a hundred or $26 for 250.

Barnes Bullets

Tim
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Offline myronman3

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« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2005, 11:59:02 AM »
now that you have made the decision to get into reloading, dont let anyone talk you out of it.   a different caliber isnt the answer you seek.  
    reloading will open doors for you and really increase the versatility of that '06 in ways you are going to have to see to believe.   bullet weights are just a fraction of the things you can change.    
    years from now you will never regret it.   whereas if you dont start reloading,  years from now you will.   :wink:

Offline Questor

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« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2005, 03:41:28 PM »
Myronman has it right. It's a worthwhile thing to anyone who likes shooting.
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Offline goose7856

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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2005, 09:59:17 AM »
What does everyone think about the Hornady 007 reloading press.

I found one on ebay that comes with alot of extras, and it is at a reasonable price for me to begin reloading.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7161522738&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

The buy it now price is $180, but im sure hell accept a lower bid.

What do all of you think?

Thanx alot!
 :D
Good Hunting and Straight Shooting

Offline longwinters

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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2005, 12:53:10 PM »
Looks like a good deal to me.  I went with an RCBS Turret reloading kit and really like it.  But if I had seen this, I would compare it with a Rockchucker kit and then go from there.  But for the 180.00 I dont know as you can go wrong.

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Offline Ragn-Cajn

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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2005, 06:38:16 PM »
Goose,What part of Louisiana are you from.I live in Shreveport, and would be more than happy to help you decide, Heck I prob got enough second hand stuff to let you try out. PM me back and lets see what we can set up. Randy
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Offline Ragn-Cajn

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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2005, 06:58:18 PM »
This is a post I entered at another site just a week ago to answer the same question. I hope it helps


There is a lot of items out there that will be wanted in time as you progress in this obsession we call reloading. This post is for you to get started. Feel free to add things as you see necessary. What I am about to explain is the process for loading that first batch. All reloading manuals will explain this also. The point of this post is for those that have never done it and dont have the manuals. It will give you an idea of what you will need and the steps to get started. It may help you make up your minds as to whether you want to proceed. Techniques vary as much as we the individuals do. You do not have to doit this way but if you follow these simple directions you will get that first batch loaded.

The list of have to have items. After several reloading manuals

1.Patience and attention to detail
2. reloading press-Single stage or progressive. I will deal with the single stage.
3 solid work bench bigger than you think you will need.
4. Set of dies and shell holder, bullets, powder, hulls, primers for the rifle you will be shooting.
5. Scales and powder funnel, balance beam or electronic, I will be dealing with the balance beam type.
6 case lube and a case lube pad. or spray lube. I will be dealing with the pad.
7. Calipers
8. Trimmer and inside/outside chamfer tool.
9. loading block and a couple cigar boxes with the lids cut out.
10. Powder measure and trickler. Note. a trickler can be made using a 30-06 hull with spent primer left in place. fill to about half way point then tap lightly with finger as you slowly pour it into the pan. with just a little practice you can drop one kernel at a time doing this
11. primer pocket cleaner
12. a nylon bristle brush of the caliber you will be loading.
13. some type of powder type neck lube. I use a teaspoon of motor mica or moly and a small short container 3/4 full of .8 steel or lead shot.
14. Hand held priming tool.

PROCEDURE FOR PRESIZING CASE PREP
This is fired cases, If new unfired cases are being used, you may move to the SETTING UP SIZING DIE

Step 1. If you have a tumbler, throw your cases in and go watch a movie. If not(it was not listed because it is not a have to have item) Use some bore cleaner on a soft cloth or bore patch and clean the carbon from the outside of the necks. as you clean each one, drop into one of those cigar boxes. after all are done, use the bristle brush and clean the carbon from the inside of the necks, no solvant. we dont want anything wet inside the cases. I usually chuck the brush up in a cordless drill, and make a few passes. Taking each one from the box, brushing the inside of the necks and dropping into the other box. You dont want to miss any.
Step Two. That container of steel shot with the moly powder in it needs to be shaken up, then tapped on the table a few times to settle the moly or motor mica. Take each case and insert into the steel shot gently and twist a few times. As you remove them, wipe the residue from the outside of the necks and stand in the reloading block neck down. We have just made it easy for the expander ball to slide back through the necks without it grabbing and stretching the necks.

SETTING UP THE SIZING DIE
Step one. Take that new sizing die and remove the expander plug. loosen the lock ring and look for the vent hole up around where the shoulder area is. There is probably some grinding compound in that hole from the polishing process. Use a paper clip and clean that hole out. This lets the air escape when sizing and prevents dents in the shoulder area.Use a bore patch on a chamber mop lightly wetted with HOPPES 9 or similar cleaner and clean inside of die. Dry inside. now with the expander still removed and shell holder in the ram, lower handle to the bottom of the stroke. screw sizing die in till light contact is made. Do not set lock screw in lock ring. I use a pair of channel lock pliers to lightly set lock ring against top of press. This will enable us to move it as we find the correct setting for the sizing die.
Step 2.Put about 5 drops of sizing lube on the pad, using an old credit card as a trowel spread the sizing lube into the pad. there should be just enough lube to cover the pad. It should not be visable as a shiny substance but rather squeezed into the material of the pad. Unlubed cases will stick and break the rim off and then you will need a case remover. Too much lube and you will dent the cases. Using this method I never have dented or stuck cases. Trust me I have done both in the past. These are the tricks I learned from trial and error.
Take one case and with the shoulder hanging off the pad, roll the case across the pad about two revolutions. This lubes the body of the case and not the shoulder and neck. We don't want any lube there.
Put this shell into the shell holder and run into Die. Take it out and wipe lube from case. Put this case in the rifle and close bolt. The bolt should not close. We have squeezed the sides in and that in turn moved the shoulder forward which makes the headspace too long to fit in your chamber.
Continue this process tightening the sizing die down each time about 1/8 of a turn. When the case will chamber with light pressure on the bolt, The die is set. This process makes the case fit into YOUR chamber. It may not fit in someone elses chamber, but with this process you have all but eliminated any case head seperation from Excessive head space.
Note: Auto Rifles will have to be sized smaller and not a snug fit to allow for the closing of the bolt.
Step 3.Replace expander and decapping rod. screw in just enough to push the primer from the case next time you run a case into the die. Too deep and you will bend the expander rod by making contact the the bottom inside of the case
Run all the cases through this properly set up die and put back in cigar box as you take each out of the press.
Step 4. Remove die and clean inside as at the begining and place back in box.
POST SIZING CASE PREP
Step 1. Wipe cases clean of the sizing lube. Rubbing alcohol works really well on a soft cloth, again swapping boxes as you go.
Step 2. Clean the carbon from the primer pockets. Again swapping boxes. We don't want to miss one.
Step 3. Trim all cases to The recommended Trim length. Even if they are not longer than the max case length. All Factory loadings I have ran across have a crimp groove at the top of the case. This will damage the new bullets. After trimming, chamfer inside and outside of the necks. We dont want it sharpened, just take the square edge off the necks.
Step 3 Prime all the cases with the primer you have selected and as you do stand each case neck down in the loading block.
Step 4. Visually check each case for primers in place, run a finger across the base of each case and make sure no primers are extended past the base of the case. They should be slightly lower than the base.

POWDER TIME.
Step 1. Set up scales on a level bench top. Using screw adjustment per manufacturers reccommendations the scale should be level, to the point that when all weights are at 0 the pointer is even.
Step 2. Set weights to the desired charge weight of the powder you will be wanting to load, then move back 1 grain weight. IE. If you are wanting to load with 25.5 grains of powder, you want the weight indicators set at 24.5 grains.
Step 3. Fill hopper in powder measure to about 1/2 to 2/3 full of powder. Screw out metering adjustment and drop one charge into pan. Put on scale. Screw in or out on metering adjustment, continue throwing one charge into pan till the scales balance. now you are one grain low on the desired charge. move the weight indicators to the desired setting, throw a charge and trickle powder into pan till it balances at the desired loading weight.
Step 4. Turn one case up right in loading block and using funnel pour charge into the case.
Step 5. Continue this process till all cases have been filled.
Step 6. Take entire loading block and get under a good light. Visually check each case to ensure powder is in each case. With rifle powders it is rare case that you can get a double charge and if you do it will overflow. With pistol cases and a fast powder you can get a double. check that all cases look to be the same amount in the case.
BULLET SEATING PROCEDURE
Step 1. Place Charged case into the shell holder.Lower handle to bottom of stroke
Step 2. Loosen lock ring and screw seating die slowly into press till you feel contact on the case. This is the Crimping ring making contact with the case mouth. Back the die up about 1/8 turn and set lock ring. Note; unless you are using a bullet with a crimp groove no crimp should be used. I only crimp when using a tubular magazine rifle to prevent the bullets from being shoved back in to the case
Step 3. back seating stem all the way up into the die.
raise handle, lowering the ram, take one bullet and with one hand place bullet into case mouth and hold there as you slowly lower handle with other hand.completely lower handle till you are at the top of stroke. screw seating stem down till you feel contact. Raise handle slightly and screw stem down about 4 turns. lower handle. remove cartridge and measure with dial calipers.
Step 4. Check against loading manual to see how much deeper you need to set bullet to reach maximum COL measurement.
Step 5. Continue seating bullet deeper till you have the COL you are seeking. Set the seating stem lock nut and finish seating all bullets.
Make accurate notes as to what you have loaded. Clean up you spilled powders and put things back up. A neat bench is a safe bench. Use safety glasses during all operations and good luck on you new hobby. Go shoot.



I know this has been a long post and I hope the moderators are OK with it. This is my first attempt at writing any thing. I have set out the procedures for a beginner to get started. There are many others here that may have a better way or see something I have missed. This way works. It can be improved upon as you progress. I have not dealt with pressures or customizing your loads.
Thanks to all. Randy

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"Ain't never hit one yet I didn't burn powder at"

Offline Leftoverdj

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« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2005, 09:01:54 AM »
Quote from: Graybeard

But do get the Lee Auto Prime to prime those cases. I've never found better. Also get a full box set of their Auto Prime shell holders and their press shell holders just to have when you need one not on hand.


You tried the Lee AutoPrime II? It goes in the press, so it's not as portable, but I like it better in every other way. All steel and uses standard shellholders.
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Online Graybeard

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« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2005, 10:20:55 AM »
Quote
You tried the Lee AutoPrime II? It goes in the press, so it's not as portable, but I like it better in every other way. All steel and uses standard shellholders.


Seen it yes, tried it no. Doubt I ever will. I do not expect to ever again prime a case while it's in the press. I am a total convert to the use of the Lee Auto Prime to prime cases off the press as a separate operation. Have no plans to ever do it any other way again. I found for me at least what I consider the best way and will be staying with it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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