Recoil .35 Whelen ?

[Buckfever]

Gents what does this caliber relate to for recoil?  Is it a lot more than a 30-06?  About that of a .300 Win.  Mag.?  Just always wondered.  Buckfever

[oso45-70]

Buckfever,

You will find the whelen to be between the 06 and the 375 H&H If its in a well stoched rifle its not so bad..........Joe..........

[msorenso]

Somewhere between 06 and 375.  Well I guess that is correct but I feel you won't be able to tell much diff between 35 whelen and a 06. as for a 375 H&H not even close.
Here is something to go by,

Recoil out of a whelen on a 8lbs rifle is 22.6
30-06 out of a 6lbs rifle is 20.3 shooting 180 gr.
300 win mag shooting 180gr 8.5 lbs rifle is 25.9
as for a 375 H&H shooting 270 gr, 36.1
 

[Japle]

I have a .358 Norma which pushes a Speer 250gr at about 2700 fps.  This is hotter than the Whelen.
After 12-15 rounds, my frontal lobes get tired of being whacked by my skull and I put the gun away in favor of something milder.  
A heavy-barrel Whelen probably won't be too much different from a standard-weight '06.  

John
Cape Canaveral

[oso45-70]

moreens,

I happen to have all three and i contend that the 35 Whelen is about in the middle range. Most of the people know that an ill fitting stocked 06 will kick the snot out of ya where a good fitting stock that is set up right will be easy on the shooter. To me them charts don't mean beans. I SAY if you take all three guns and stock them the same the felt recoil  of the 35 whelel will be about mid ways between the 06 and the 375 H&H. Now we have to consider the weight of the bullets, You can shoot a lighter bullet in the 375 H&H and a heavier bullet in the whelen thats going to be a whole different ball game. Different guns kick harder, I have a Ruger #1 that kicks like my 416Rem. Mag. It hurts twice as much as my other. 375 H&H.
...............Joe................

[JD338]

My M700 Classic in 35 Whelen with 225 gr PT or 250 gr PT recoils between a 30-06 and a 300 Win Mag.

Great shooting gut for deer and Black Bear here in MI.

Regards,

JD338.

[oso45-70]

YEA RIGHT

[JD338]

Sorry for the typo,  :oops: Daughter was hounding me to load up horses.
I meant to say,
Great shooting gun for deer and bear here in MI.

Regards,

JD338

[msorenso]

45-70,
 my comparison is that all things equal. if I am not worthy of beleiving go to chuck hawks .com that is where I got my info.  Can you explain to me how a 35 whelen recoils more than a 300 win mag? Yeah a 300 that has more power recoils less that a 35 whelen.  Im not trying to be smart, I just don't know how you can even make such an argument.  It seems I am not the only one that see it that way!

[Butler]

I would imagine a fast 35 whelen with a heavy bullet could kick more than a 300 mag..My /06 browning has kicked me harder than a friends ruger 300 winchester..Has alot to do with the weight of the gun and the stock..My CZ-550 in 375H&H is a sweet shooter as it is heavy..The 260 accubonds do not kick bad but the 300 grainers can when puched fast..

[kombi1976]

I'd have to say, at the risk of incurring oso45-70's wrath that a Whelen with a suitable stock should "feel" closer to a 30-06. :|
But then all recoil is felt and it's a funny thing.
Some rifles that feel bad should be fine but others are complete pigs despite the fact they're shooting a light load half the weight.
I reckon a 6lb Whelen with "hot'n'heavy" loads would slap you round sillier than a circus clown with a rubber rolling pin.  :x :mrgreen:

[Robert]

I also disagree with the comparison to magnum loads, and emphatically disagree that it is between 30-06 and 375.  A 375 kicks the snot out of you, a Whelen DOES NOT.  I shoot an Ackley Improved, and with lighter bullets and loads about equal velocity with sililar weight bullets....180-200 gr....the Whelen actually seems lighter than my 30-06.  Both my 30-06 and my Whelen are nearly identical P-17's.  I rebarreled my Whelen from a matching 30-06.  About the only difference in these two rifles is that the 30-06 has a BETTER recoil pad.
  225 gr bullets loaded with medium loads still feel fairly close to 30-06. If I load them really hot with Paco Kelly loads...then I start to feel a little more recoil.  With 250 gr jacketed bullets loaded hot..then there is recoil.  With 280 gr cast bullets....once again with cast loads...the recoil goes back down to about 30-06 levels.
  I don't know how manny folks understand this...but larger bore rifles with similar weight bullets work at lower pressures.  The difference between .308 caliber and 8mm (.323)  will give less felt recoil with the 8mm if you are using the same weight bullet and same powder charge.
  This applies equally to the Whelen.  You can use bigger/heavier bullets in the Whelen with similar recoil and still get the down-range ballistics of a lighter bullet in 30-06.
  These are not guesses or assumptions, these are facts.

[Rummer]

I shot my Whelen today and found the recoil to be a little more than my .30-06.  I did not find it to be uncomfortable.

I would add here that stock fit is important. And a good recoil pad helps.  I find my whelen, which just "feels right" to be more comfortable to shoot than my Dad's old 721 in .270.  The difference being that the 721 has a shorter LOP, and is narrower.  It feels awkward.  I am not implying that a .270 generates less recoil energy than the .35, but is less comfortable to shoot because of a poorly fitting stock.

John

[TexasNimrod]

Worked these out for reference:

8 lb Rifles
.257 Roberts      120 gr @ 2880     12.3 ft-lbs
7mm-08            140 gr @ 2840     14.9 ft-lbs
7X57 Mauser      140 gr @ 2820     15.5 ft-lbs
.270 Win            150 gr @ 2900     19.5 ft-lbs
.308 Win            180 gr @ 2650     20.1 ft-lbs
.30-06 Sprfld      180 gr @ 2760     22.6 ft-lbs

8.5 lb Rifles
7mm Rem Mag   160 gr @ 3010    22.6 ft-lbs
.338-06             210 gr @ 2690    24.9 ft-lbs
                        250 gr @ 2410    28.1 ft-lbs
.35 Whelan        225 gr @ 2500    25.2 ft-lbs
.300 Win Mag     180 gr @ 3070    29.9 ft-lbs

9 lb Rifle
.338 Win Mag     210 gr @ 2900    31.9 ft-lbs
                        250 gr @ 2690    34.7 ft-lbs
9.5 lb Rifle
.375 H & H         300 gr @ 2600    43.9 ft-lbs

Hope this helps.

[Buckfever]

Thanks all for the comparisons and listed ballistics.  I picked up a Tikka Whitetail Hunter in a new .308, wood and blue that had been riding the wood gun rack because in that rural area everybody shoots common names.  I don't mean that is bad , I have had and still do guns of  many makers.
Recently I have been thinking about making a trade of the Tikka for a 35 Whelen and use it for big whitetails in Canada.  I don't want to develop a flench and it would have to be accurate my Tikka's have spoiled me.  I thought that a 225gr bullet might slow them down.  Those 300lb bucks just take off like you hit them in the butt with a .22.  They are usually found not more than 200 yards away.  So these are the reasons I asked for real gun hunters experiences.  Thank you all for the information.

Buckfever
p.s. just once I would like to flatten one, be good for my head!!

[CowboyEngr]

PERCEIVED recoil is a very subjective thing.  It has too many variables to realistically calculate - stock design, state of mind, how much clothing is worn, shooter's stance (position), etc.  But, PHYSICAL recoil is merely a mathematical calculation.  Given that the weight of the rifle is the same, recoil becomes a function of bullet weight, bullet velocity, and powder charge weight.  Using a calculator and assuming an 8 lb. rifle produced these results:

1.  200 gr. bullet, 2700 fps, 50 grs. powder (30-06) - recoil factor = 29
2.  200 gr. bullet, 2900 fps, 60 grs. powder (300 mag) - recoil factor= 36
3.  300 gr. bullet, 2700 fps, 60 grs. powder (375 mag) - recoil factor= 59
4.  250 gr. bullet, 2500 fps, 50 grs. powder (35 Whelen) - recoil factor= 36

My charge weights are rough approximations and my velocities are totally from memory, so I may be off by some amount.

I was a little surprised that the 35 Whelen and the 300 Mag. came out this close, although I did suspect they would be about the same.  Of course, the rifle weight will not be the same in the real world.  In the real world, the 35 Whelen might be the lightest of the four and the 375 Mag. would likely be the heaviest, which would moderate the 375 Mag. and exaggerate the 35 Whelen.

In truth, the 35 Whelen probably does recoil more like a 30-06 than a 375 Mag., most 300 magnums probably recoil about the same as the 35 Whelen.

My point is: MEASURABLE recoil is a "product" of bullet weight, rifle weight, and velocity.  Of course!, if you load the same weight bullets, at the same velocity, in the same weight rifle; the recoil will be the SAME, wether it's a 30-06, 300 Mag., or 35 Whelen.

This can turn into a discourse of splitting hairs and be endless, but in generality, if you increase either velocity or bullet weight the recoil will go up.  If you increase BOTH, the recoil goes up much more dramatically.

[Harry Snippe]

We still flatten those boys with the thirdy/ Dirtty. Just take the lungs out!
Want to get fancy- use the 45/70 shoot them in an angle away shot and still take the lungs out.
It is when on the same trip we meet a four to five hundred pound bear by surprize at close range , cause at twenty yards and quick shootin', we tend not to aim so good . that is why I carry the 358 now, and lots of  :oops: bathroom paper.
Now that whelan would be a great gun as long as that second shot can come close to the first one .
Leave the bolt for the open and planned shot.
Happy

Thanks all for the comparisons and listed ballistics.  I picked up a Tikka Whitetail Hunter in a new .308, wood and blue that had been riding the wood gun rack because in that rural area everybody shoots common names.  I don't mean that is bad , I have had and still do guns of  many makers.
Recently I have been thinking about making a trade of the Tikka for a 35 Whelen and use it for big whitetails in Canada.  I don't want to develop a flench and it would have to be accurate my Tikka's have spoiled me.  I thought that a 225gr bullet might slow them down.  Those 300lb bucks just take off like you hit them in the butt with a .22.  They are usually found not more than 200 yards away.  So these are the reasons I asked for real gun hunters experiences.  Thank you all for the information.

Buckfever
p.s. just once I would like to flatten one, be good for my head!!

[Buckfever]

What .358 are you using and please talk about recoil and knock down power.  Thanks  Buckfever

[Harry Snippe]

What .358 are you using and please talk about recoil and knock down power.  Thanks  Buckfever

I am using the 358 W in the new light weight BLR ( Browning Lever).
This rifle is just under seven pounds , easy to carry and points naturally.
I find the recoil of this round close to that of the 308 with factory 200 gr, bullets and again as a reloader , recoil goes up as the weight of the bullet goes up. The BLR has an excellent recoil pad, so I do not notice recoil as I also shoot a bolt action 3006.
Your not going to pick off a chuck @ four hundred yards with this round , but feel it's going down at 250 yards, if you do your part.
Here in Central Ontario , mixed farm land and bush the round is about perfect for deer, bear and moose, that we would encounter , and it is quickly catching on with the hunters. These rifles ar sought after and now there is a waiting list for a used unit.

In these parts you can hit him in the open and quickly loose the animal in thick cover in the bush . you need to hit him hard with a good sized bullet leave a good blood trail and not have the animal go far.

The 358 W does all of this in a short action.

Winchester is the only one loading a 200 gr bullet for this as fa as I know, but the reloader can load anything from the 180 to 250 gr 35 cal. bullet , using 358 W, brass or reforming brass from 308 W which is the parent case .
For informal plinking at the range or deer hunting for that matter the round goes do well with lead bullets.

Since the BLR has a box magazine you are not limited to blunt bullets required for the other levers.

This rifle chambering does not have the power of the whelan and for the most part to take advantage of what the round is capable of you need to reload. A good bullet will pass through a good sized bear and leave a good blood trail, vital when hunting over bait in heavy coverat last light . You want the aninal down quickly and not far from where you hit him.


Now of your seeking more range out of the BLR or want the powder of the whelan , you can still achieve this looking at the 300 WSM or the new 325WSM, chambered also in this rifle.

When I was going in to buy a rifler I was thinking of the 300 WSM , checked out a used 3006, then the 358 W just came in. Since I was a reloader and knew what it was ,the rifle never touched the gunshop bench . Had I placed an order for4 a new gun that day it would have been a toss up between the 358 W and the 300 WSM.
No regrets after two years , but then again we did not have the 325 WSM.


I bought it. :-D

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The recoil numbers really don't mean much.  It's what you feel when you shoot the gun that matters.

For example, I've had muzzle loaders with those evil looking steel crescent buttplates.  With the SAME LOAD they were punishment when shooting from a bench or prone, but pussy-cats when shooting off-hand.

I have a brother who has a Rem. 7600 in .30-06, a Win. 70 in .300 WM, and a 12 gauge Mosseberg.  He says the Rem. 7600 is the most punishing.  Notice I didn't say which recoiled more because the truth is neither one of us knows - we just know that one gun is less pleasant than the others.

That's why I don't shy away from 10 lb guns.  They soak up recoil.

[DanP]

I would put it around a 7mm rem mag -- a little more than an .06, less than a .300 win mag.  Rather less than a .340 wby or a .375H&H.  Significantly less than a .458 win mag.

Went to the range last weekend to zero a rifle rebarreled in .35 whelen, and to check whether a .458 win shooting 400gr Barnes Original PSP's and 400 gr woodleigh pps put the rounds in the same place (it did).  The whelen did not kick much, but still had a little bite to it (faster recoil, lighter rifle).

Dan

[longwalker]

I know all I am doing is adding mud to the murky waters but here goes.

I hunt with a 338-06 for deer and larger game. I can load it several different ways. from 200 grain bullets to 250 grain bullets. If I want low recoil I can do it. If I want hard hitting slamim on their backs I can do that too. But the recoil will be significantly different. Heck I can shoot my 25-06 in tee shirt, while the 336-06 is much more comfortable to shoot with a couple of layers on.

There is no free lunch, If you a hard hitting rifle with something more than a 30-06 but less than a 338 win mag or 375 H&H go with something in between. It won't rock you as hard but won't hit like the bigger round either.

Hows that clear as mud ?

longwalker

[Slamfire]

Sorbothane recoil pads like those labeled Limb Saver or Kick Eze will make a molehill out of the recoil mountain. Add hearing enhancers that blank out loud noises and there is no reason anyone can't shoot heavy hitters accurately. The question still remaining is, do you have too?  :-D

[Buckfever]

As you have stated the discussion came full circle.  Do I need a 35 Whelen other than my 30-06 with 180 barnes or a bonded bullet for for large canadian whitetails and black bear?  Would I like another gun is another issue.   Thanks  Buckfever

[DanP]

The .35 whelen would likely not offer too much advantage over the .30-06 for deer -- might put them down a little faster (bleed out a little faster).  There is a bigger advantage for black bears: the hair and fat tend to plug the exit wound allowing one to loose the blood trail.  The .35 will more regularly make a bigger hole, and an easier trail.

Dan

[Bob Hurley]

I had a Rem 742 carbine in .30-06, and shot it for a couple of years. I never could get the accuracy to suit me, so I had it bored and rechambered to .35 Whelen which did help the accuracy a lot. Shooting the two rounds in the same rifle, I'd say that the Whelen recoiled more, but it was more of a push than a slap and I found it more pleasant to shoot than the 06. Bullet weight in the Whelen made a noticeable difference, though, the 250gr loads pushed back a lot harder than the 200's.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Bullet weight in the Whelen made a noticeable difference, though, the 250gr loads pushed back a lot harder than the 200's.

I would expect so.  That's a 25% increase in weight.  That's like going from a 150 to 190 grain in the '06.

[Rifle25]

Is the 35 Whelen good Moose medicine? What about Browns?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

All the reading I've done would indicate that the Whelen is enough gun for anything on this continent.

Sounds like it's got enough beef for close up, flatten-em-on-the-spot performance, and enough zip to reach out and destroy elk-sized critters at 300 yards.

Federal makes a 225 grain factory load that moves out at 2600 fps and has over 2,000 ft-lbs at 300 yards.  That's with a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet, which is a premium bullet.  

Heck, at $29/box that's a deal.  I can't reload 'em for that cheap since it appears that the bullets alone are selling for over $1.00/bullet.

[Barstooler]

My favorite 35 Whelen reload is 53 grs of IMR 4895 behind a 250 gr. Spreer Spitzer.  Gets along at 2500 fps and has made 1-shot kills on two dozen deer (white tails and mule deer), 4 elk, and 2 bear.   They litterally drop where they stand.

Barstooler